TherapyBull

Going to disagree with you on just about everything. The University of South Florida is one of the Premier research Universities in this state. AAU status will come with time. The money is there now but that is not enough. AAU membership requires results. Just look around you, USF just had a professor win educator of the year in the entire nation. The results are there as well and just need a few more years of proof. USF is no longer the fall back school kids are getting denied here and getting into FSU and other schools on a consistent basis now. I'm sure that works both ways, but not something you could say a few years ago. USF is also considered the one of the leaders of the up and coming institutions ranking top 5 yearly. Our academics are fine as I am sure University Presidents would be well aware of this information. I really hashed out at DW in the past but I know see the light. Our Administration knows that USF's way into a major conference is to bring to the table upgrades in ALL SPORTS. Football needs to catch up, basketball needs to stay hot, and baseball needs new leadership which will come after this season. Commuter school. You can keep thinking that way, but that is not true anymore. Housing is full to the point where the school just put pressure to speed up the Fontana Hall property remodel project. It will be ready for the fall... You disagree with everything yet you do not refute any of these claims that USF just does not stack up that well with the schools in the power conferences. Yes, we are certainly improving, Judy is doing a great job. But we are simply where we should be in terms of the conference situation.

^---- Current UCiF student? Nope.

Unfortunatly perception is reality, call it what you want and use all your stats about more dorms on campus than UF. We are viewed as a commuter school.

gonna calmly disagree with this argument, yes USF is improving, but we are not where we need to be. It is exactly this mentality that I wrote about.....Sorry you just proved the point.. take time to read what was wrote, its not deafeatist, its about taking ownership.

I love this university and bleed green and gold, but let’s look at some things. Large Commuter School Non AAU Member Abysmal 6 year graduation rates Ranked 170th Nationally by US News Relatively new football program Plays home games in an NFL stadium, 12 miles from campus Has actual attendance around 30K for non-marquee matchups. Never finished higher than 3rd in the Big East, Never finished ranked. 1 NCAA Basketball tournament in 20 years. Resides in the 13th largest media market. Looking at this, it is pretty clear that USF is where it is supposed to be in terms of conference re-alignment. The only thing we have going for us is the large media market, but all the other schools in this conference were chosen for that reason too. The Big East gave us a huge gift because they wanted to maintain a presence in Florida, our lot never improved. What if we are stuck in this conference for the next 5 years? If things do not improve, what makes us think we will be first in line to get into another conference? Yes, Florida has fertile recruiting grounds and maybe FSU will bolt for another conference at some point. However, we cannot bank that in 5 years USF will be in a better position than UCF under that mindset. The Big 12 might not choose to expand to Florida, we just don’t know. Instead of blaming others I hope we start looking at some of these things, and look for ways to improve. Administration and the fan base should take ownership. I for one will continue to support USF athletics via donations and attendance at football games. I will make it a point to have all 6 of my season tickets used. I will also continue to press administration to improve academics. We have to take some responsibility. What scares me the most is the entitlement mindset, and that we somehow deserve to be at the table with the big boys. Let’s sit idle and see if we get picked up. Sure if the ACC or Big 12 came calling we would gladly accept, but that gift might not ever come. Fat, Drunk, and Stupid is no way to go through life, lets clean up...........

Boise State is not even classified as a National University by US News Rankings, which must mean they are pretty low on certain benchmarks. Stranger things have happened but I just do not see them as a full member of the PAC, there is still a lot of academic snobbery and this is not even an AAU non AAU debate.

Do you remember what our facilities looked life before? There are other athletes at this University that deserve the facilities that were built. Why would USF put itself in that much debt? If the A.D did not suspect what has taken place in the realignment process, then he was not doing his job. He knew it would be a long shot to put USF in another conference. Raymond James fits our football needs. Soccer and Softball are the most successful sports on the campus and we played in a conference known for basketball. It’s pretty clear to see why the upgrades were made and when. I agree the facilities were terrible, but looking back, you have to upgrade what will give you the most bang for your buck. If the upgrades lead to better softball and soccer performance, so what in the larger athletic climate? Don't know how we can even mention soccer and softball with football when we are talking about growing the university fanbase? Combine all the other sports this university fields and you do not even match half the power of football. The attendance of every home game in the history of USF softball might not even match the attendance at the very first USF football game in 1997. Look at it another way, the basketball powerhouse Kansas was essentailly without a home when the Big 12 had potential to dissolve. Sure they would have found some home, but it shows that this is clearly about football. Yes Raymond James meets our needs, it has two endzones separated by 100 yards, but its 12 miles away from the campus. We lose 6 opportunities a year to have 40K people on the campus. The OCS threads are littered with all the potential benefits. Again Debt is not neccessarily a bad thing, 100k debt to go to medical school not a bad choice. 100K debt with an English degree, maybe not the best choice right now. A 30 year mortage on a house purchased 15 years ago, you made money, A 30 year mortgage on a house purchased in 2007, you are probably underwater. Debt incurred to bring 50K to the campus, change university perception, and instill new sense of pride amongst students and alumni which translates into more giving is something worth looking into. The same simply cannot be said about the debt incurred for the other facilities.

I agree Mike, I do not think it is fair to blame anyone for upgrading the other sports facilities. Nobody could have predicted what has unfolded. However, we did upgrade the facilities for sports that are essentially also rans in this whole process. The upgrades really do not benefit anyone but the teams that use them, there is no trickle affect to the rest of the university. It would be interesting to see the thought process involved in taking care of them first before looking after football. It is clear that football is the driver and does have impact on the rest of the university. It might possibly be that they were just low hanging fruit, or they were so terrible the Big East was complaining. In this situation I think the majority of fans would rather be paying debt on a football stadium then these facilities, but obviously hindsight is always 20/20. I still do not see why USF does not have specific fundraising campaigns for the Indoor Practice Facility or an eventual stadium fund. We can't raise money until we ask. Let the people in the Foundation put their creative brains to work and come up with some fundraising gimmicks.

I’m not sure that I agree with these sentiments. I think we all understand that money is a significant barrier, however that is the case with everything in life. We cannot just throw our hands in the air and be passive participants in our own future. Unless FSU bolts the ACC, there is no guarantee that a power conference will be calling on USF anytime soon. The conference reshuffling has followed a very predictable pattern with AAU membership and established programs at the forefront. Louisville was the first program to break that mold as the Big East had no more AAU schools left, but they certainly have a large following. Syracuse just recently lost AAU membership. I think the stadium issue is a chicken and egg scenario. Do you passively wait to get the call to the “big leagues†or do you take matters into your own hands and continuously invest in your program. Certainly the trend around the country is moving to on campus facilities, we can always point to the few programs who do not operate in this manner but they are few and far between, and nobody thinks that those schools are making it work. USC and UCLA are essentially the sole tenants of their stadiums, I do not consider them in USF’s situation. Will an iconic structure such as a stadium change the perception of the campus? Will it help recruiting? Will having alumni and fans now on the campus during gameday instill more university pride and giving? Will games be better attended by students? Will all this lead to more success in terms of wins, losses, and fanbase? Will this improve Judy's graduation rates? We just don't know. We invested in the other sports facilities, but this is all about football, football, and football. If soccer, softball, and baseball improved ticket and merchandise sales 1000%, it would still be peanuts compared to the potential from benefits from football. Do we say these were bad investments? We like to make fun of UCF, but if you talk to anyone from that school they feel the stadium has been a huge success. Even most of the hardcore fans on this board agree that they have a better game day atmosphere, and what will we say if they upgrade, add a façade and have something very similar to Doak Campbell. I do not feel we need something like the University of Minnesota, a 40,000 seat stadium designed for expansion would easily suffice. I just worry that the longer USF procrastinates on the issue the further we fall behind, only time will tell. Again, of course money is a significant barrier, but it is a barrier to every venture in life. We do not know what we can raise until we try and debt is not neccessarily a bad thing if it is towards a good investment.

Recruiting has been suspect for several years now. We have one if not the lowest budget in the big east. In theory that low budget could have worked but we never locked up our surrounding area with quality. We can only claim stars don't matter if we actually win something. I have started to wonder why so many of us including myself have thought we had superior talent for the big east. It appears to me that we are grossly undersized, and we have not been making this up with speed, athleticism, and smarts. Hopefully Willie T can work his magic in the living rooms around this area.

I hope they continue the momentum with this project as well, maybe one of us should call the foundation and see where we are in the process. I always wonder why the university does not make formal donation requests for these projects, it worries me that if they do not ask, then it becomes easier for them to back out of these things. Hopefully I'm wrong. The cost is not ridiculous, one year of requests should suffice, even if they are starting from zero funds. Its amazing the amount of funds much smaller organizations can raise, this is a major university.... With conference expansion, I think we are going to have to show that we are committed to investing in the program. We have taken care of the other sports, lets get football going.

All kidding aside, I just do not know what DW could even possibly say at the press conference if he decides to bring Skip back. There is nothing that we have seen that points to a positive, so saying that would be ludacris. Would he just come out and say, I have faith in Skip, we gave him an extension, and it would cost to much to buy him out at this time. Really curious what the positive spin would be.....

I do not think we should dismiss the Jacksonville game that quickly, I'm not saying that it would not present a challenge or be viewed as a minor version of the "cocktail party, but it is definetly worth a look. Georgia Tech would travel well so that is not a problem. For USF to travel well to jacksonville the game would have to be the first or 2nd game of the season after the 1AA opponent, this way all the hope of a new season will still be there and fans will travel. The people of Jacksonville might also want to see college football in addition to the Gator/Dogs game. You never know both schools could make money over the deal. It wold be nice if this became a long term "tradition" It's this type of outside the box thinking that USF needs to take part in.

I agree with the sentiments of this article as well as the one by Gary Shelton today. You cannot bring back Holtz just for the sake of brining him back and giving him more time to see his recruits mature. If we are not seeing progress then another year just wastes the programs and fans time and money. What about this team that we are currently seeing shows us that there will be improvement next year, who will be the QB? Will someohow a 6-6 record be considered a major success and Skippy is the toast of the town.......... One thing nobody is mentioning is DW, i'm very uncomfortable with him. This is essentially his last job, he will retire after this, he just does not have that fear of reprucussions from poor decisions that a younger AD would. He can put his eggs into Skips basket and if he fails so what, he is retiring anyway. I highly doubt DW thinks about his legacy at USF.

If FSU bolts I think we can make a very compelling case for the ACC. I just do not see Miami carrying the entire state of Florida. If the ACC does not care about Florida, then so be it, but Miami is not the Miami of old. They are a relatively small private school at the southern tip of the state, who has terrible attendance. A large amount of thier fans are not alumni, which probably means loyalty is not a strongsuit. Yes they have National Championships and the swagger that went with it, and certainly they are ahead of USF in the pecking order. But for the ACC, to rest their entire prescence in the 4th most populist state on Miami might be a bit of a stretch.

Unfortunately?? There is no quick fix, magic pill, or Devine intervention. USF and the fans need to work at this one and take ownership of the situation. Not renewing season tickets and withholding athletics support is the quickest way to ensure we will stay in our current state. Unfortunately, yes, because a lot on this board are threatening these actions.

This really has nothing at all to do with winning (Unless we have a run like Boise State), winning just helps put butts in the seats which will grow the fan base. We all know our fan base is extremely fragile, it will be very interesting to see what the season ticket sales will become next year. We will not be in a better position for realignment then we are now even if we have a run of 8-4 seasons and bowl appearances as long as we have announced of 40k and actuals of 30k. Unfortunately if we want to improve our stock, we are all going to have to continue to go to games, and invest in athletics. We have the university size, and media market, the fan base is just not there, yet...............

USF needs to win and continue with their plans (My only fear is they do not have any), Cancelling season tickets is the worst thing we can all do, I know its easier said then done but we have to stay the course. USF still has tremendous, off the chart potential for growth, and come the next chance we need to be in a position to take the call. We are in the 13th largest media market, and our a top 10 univesity in terms of enrollment, the potential for fans is clearly here. Judy has also done a great job improving academics and securing research dollars, if she can somehow improve the 6 year graduation rate then we will be as good a candidate as anyone for the AAU. Administration needs to continue to support the program, they have showed commitment by updating the other sports facilities but now its time to lay the football plans in place. Its football thats driving this whole show, I for one would feel a lot more confidence if I knew there was a 5-10 year plan.

Thought I would change the subject a little from all the negativity surrounding the conference debacle. If I win Powerball I'm pledging to donate money to buy out Skip, buy the indoor practice facility, and buy if not put a huge down payment on the OCS. Whose with me...............

Right about now Judy needs to cut a profanity laden promo on Doug that includes, "You do realize that athletics is the main if not sole driver of university pride and support once the vast majority of people graduate, I've worked to hard to build up this university, and I'm not gonna let this stain my legacy without a fight." Then she needs to put on her best green pant suit, hop in her Volvo and head east on I4. Tell the UCF president that FSU holds a lot of the cards, that if FSU stay in the ACC, then USF and UCF need to make a death pact. Offer both schools as a package deal to the Big 12 to give them the Florida market. The I4 corridor can be Big 12 country, which would include the 13th and 19th largest media markets. Sell it, Sell it, Sell it, plaster billboards all over I4, we are both in the top 10 in terms of enrollment, and have huge potential for growth. Sell the farm, offer football only if that is what it would take, ask for less of a revenue split if the Big 12 conference bylaws would even allow. At this stage it seems as if just being at the dinner table is better than the present situation. If FSU jumps to another conference, sell the same scenario to the ACC.

I am by no means taking the blame away from Skip Holtz, a lot of this falls on the head coach, and personally I do not see how administration can bring him back, given the disgust from the fan base. However, do we just simply lack the talent to compete in the big east? In all our rants against Holtz we assume that we have talented players who are able to compete, but what are we really basing this on? We have never had a highly ranked recruiting class, and we are usually in the ranked in the middle of the big east. Comparing ourseleves to other teams it is evident that we are grossly undersized. This can be made up by speed, smarts, and athleticism, however is this what is occuring?

Here is the data from the schools that recently got "Promoted" Pittsburgh (58) (2.6 Billion) Fan Rank 37, AAU Member Syracuse (58) (913 Million) Fan Rank 39, Voluntary Withdrew from AAU Maryland (58) (417 Million) Fan Rank 58, AAU Member Rutgers (68) (700 Million) Fan Rank 32, AAU Member West Virginia (165) (365 Million) Fan Rank 29

While we are looking at which schools might be viable candidates to make the jump into a "power conference". I thought it would be interesting to put forth some academic, endowment, and estimated number of football fans data in order to compare the left out schools. Looking at these comparable it is clear that UCONN and BYU are great candidates, both have high rankings and an estimated large number of fans. While anything goes in conference realignment it is hard to see how a conference such as the PAC 12 would allow a Boise State entrance when it is not even considered a National University, in fact it is only ranked 66 in the regional university categories. Of these select 16 "Left Out" Schools USF has. The 9th Best US News Ranking, The 6th largest endowment, and the 3rd largest estimated number of football fans. None of the left out schools are Members of the AAU US News Ranking Previous AQ Big East Schools UCONN (63) Cincinnati (139) Louisville (160) USF (170) New Big East Schools SMU (58) Temple (125) San Diego State (165) UCF (174) Houston (184) Memphis (Not Published) Boise State (Regional School) Other Select Schools BYU (68) Colorado State (134) Nevada (189) ECU (199) Southern Miss (Not Published) Endowments From US News SMU (1.19 Billion) Cincinnati (1.02 Billion) BYU (920 Million) Louisville (769 Million) Houston (559 Million) USF (327 Million) UCONN (306 Million) Temple (280 Million) Colorado State (234 Million) Nevada (228 Million) Memphis (197 Million) San Diego State (142 Million) ECU (130 Million) UCF (125 Million) Boise State (75 Million) Southern Miss (Not Published) New York Times Blog Estimate of Number of Football Fans Rank BYU (43) UCONN (47) USF (53) UCF (55) Boise State (57) Southern Miss (66) ECU (68) Cincinnati (70) Louisville (73) San Diego State (77) Memphis (80) Temple (81) Colorado State (87) Nevada (90) SMU (97) Houston (112)

From the News Article "Whenever Rutgers enters the Big Ten, it will be the culmination of one of the most remarkable turnarounds in college sports. In 2002, the Scarlet Knights football team went 1-11 under second-year coach Greg Schiano, who then seemed like the latest coach incapable of reviving a program that had been a college football laughingstock for more than a decade. The team, however, made steady improvement as the university made the huge financial commitment necessary to support major college football. Facilities were upgraded, the on-campus stadium was expanded and as Schiano started to win, his salary began to rise into the millions. Not everyone on campus embraced the idea of turning Rutgers into a big-time football school, and it did come with a big price tag. The expanded and renovated stadium cost of $102 million. The school had hoped to raise the money through private donors, but fell short. Rutgers scaled back plans for the expansion and issued bonds and borrowed money to complete the project. In 2006, the school had to cut six varsity sports, including men's tennis and crew. As the football team has become a consistent winner - Rutgers has gone to a bowl six of the last seven years - the athletic department has received tens of millions in subsidies from the university." If USF wants to play football we may have to mortgage the farm..................

Neither does Pitt Pitt is an AAU member institution ranked in the top 50 nationally, they also have over a 2 Billion dollar endowment, Miami is also an AAU institution, with 5 National Championships, are we really trying to compare the situations at these 2 schools with USF? That being said, they are not making the off campus sharing the stadium with an NFL teamm work, (Attendance and Wins) neither are the other very few schools who operate under this scenario. UCLA and USC do not share with NFL teams. So I'll ask the question, based on past performance what makes anybody here think that USF administration can succeed in this type of shared stadium environment when nobody else in the country can? analysis is completely off, no offense. uconn plays 30 minutes away from campus on an old airfield. this has nothing to do with pretty stadiums or football performance. (Syracuse? Uconn? Come on). This is about empire-building, TV contracts, power grabs, etc. Football performance and stadium quality are distant after-thought. You just inadvertently solidfied the point, this is not about football performance, its about Academic prestige and fan base, both of which USF is lacking. There are a great many of us that think USF will never rise to greatness without an OCS to drive masses to the campus and create a different atmosphere to the one we have. You ask Judy, Doug, and Skip and privately they will tell you that it will be a temendous benefit to have all these fans on the campus during gamedays. Only time will tell what line of thought is correct, but right now, the current situation does not look good.