Conference Realignment

[Triple B]

 

I also think NCSU is overrated. People have them being a "no-brainer" to the SEC, while "FSU and Miami are unworthy." But, we and UCF each have more college football fans than NC State.

... in the state of Florida.

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There was a national survey that estimated USF and UCF as having larger football fanbases than NCSU.

I know it might be hard to believe they are ahead of an ACC member. But, it actually makes sense, as Florida is about twice as populous as North Carolina and more football-oriented.

 

If it's that survey that was posted on another thread in here, it was pretty unscientific .... I don't know if using football attendance records is a better indicator of fanbase but if it is, NCSU definitely has us there .... http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_records/Attendance/2010.pdf ... Pick any year and I don't think we ever out drew them.

[Florida Bull]

I also think NCSU is overrated. People have them being a "no-brainer" to the SEC, while "FSU and Miami are unworthy." But, we and UCF each have more college football fans than NC State.

NC State makes a ton of sense if you are the SEC and you are trying to increase your TV VIEWERSHIP and MARKET SHARE. The SEC already has enough eyeballs on it in Florida.

There's an awful lot of money to be made by expanding into North Carolina.

Watch, NC State attendance will EXPLODE if they get the invite.

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1. Should the SEC bring in projects?

2. There is probably more money in adding Syracuse and/or Pitt.

1. No more of a 'project' than Missouri, I think. The last time the Tigers won a conference was 1969. Since then, in the 16 they were in the B12, the Tigers made the CCG twice.

- Before that, they weren't setting the world on fire.

- NC State hasn't been that great either, to tell the truth.

2. Please. Upstate New York and Northwestern PA in the SEC? Really, dude? Hell, why don't we start applying to the PAC then?

- This is all about forming viable networks with 'brand' names and being able to charge more to cable companies for carriage. It makes an AWFUL LOT of $en$e to add a school from NC and

VA to the SEC. The SEC can add practically any 'brand' from the south it wants. It makes sense for the SEC to concentrate on the SOUTHEAST. They are not as desperate as the B12 was

when they added WVA.

- Personally, I can see a situation a lot like what moved A&M to the SEC. NC State would LOVE to move out of UNC's shadow, I think. Going to the SEC is a great way to do that.

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1. NC State is more of a 'project' than Missouri. Missouri has one of the 25 (probably 23rd) largest college football fanbases. NC State has been estimated at 59th. Missouri is the flagship in its state. As you mentioned, NC State is behind UNC (and Duke-although not mentioned by you if I recall).

2. Pitt and SU are closer to the Southeast than we are to the Pacific Coast.

The SEC needs NCSU to develop a brand?

If the SEC needs population for carriage fees, then why not go with more popular and well-rounded schools in more populous states?

If the SEC can just build brands, then why not select somebody with more potential?

And, wouldn't desperation entail the requirement of being less selective?

I personally have no problem with NCSU. I like the university and see it as a great institution USF should associate with. But, I do not like logical inconsistencies from people rationalizing NC State to the SEC-over other candidates-when they fail their own stated standards (I.e. fanbase size, probably television ratings, national appeal or brand, adding new population, etc.).

[Florida Bull]

I also think NCSU is overrated. People have them being a "no-brainer" to the SEC, while "FSU and Miami are unworthy." But, we and UCF each have more college football fans than NC State.

... in the state of Florida.

----------------------------------------------------------------

There was a national survey that estimated USF and UCF as having larger football fanbases than NCSU.

I know it might be hard to believe they are ahead of an ACC member. But, it actually makes sense, as Florida is about twice as populous as North Carolina and more football-oriented.

If it's that survey that was posted on another thread in here, it was pretty unscientific .... I don't know if using football attendance records is a better indicator of fanbase but if it is, NCSU definitely has us there .... http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_records/Attendance/2010.pdf ... Pick any year and I don't think we ever out drew them.

----------------------------------------------------------------

The survey conducted by Nate Silver is probably not absolutely perfect, and may have placed a little too much emphasis on the immediate or short-term. The University of Alabama should have more fans than Auburn, at least by now. And, to be fair, I think the survey was conducted sometime around or during Cam Newton's championship season.

But, it is probably as accurate of an estimate for fanbase size as we have. I trust its credibility than more than biased fans making their own speculations. And, it is probably 'more or less' correct.

2. Attendance numbers do not disprove fanbase sizes. I doubt NC State and similar teams actually have more fans and national interest than Miami, even if they get better attendance.

USF's alumni base could be more spread out. The team is younger and has been less privileged with conference affiliation.

Edited February 20, 2013 by Florida Bull

[Triple B]

 

 

 

I also think NCSU is overrated. People have them being a "no-brainer" to the SEC, while "FSU and Miami are unworthy." But, we and UCF each have more college football fans than NC State.

... in the state of Florida.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------

There was a national survey that estimated USF and UCF as having larger football fanbases than NCSU.

I know it might be hard to believe they are ahead of an ACC member. But, it actually makes sense, as Florida is about twice as populous as North Carolina and more football-oriented.

 

If it's that survey that was posted on another thread in here, it was pretty unscientific .... I don't know if using football attendance records is a better indicator of fanbase but if it is, NCSU definitely has us there .... http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_records/Attendance/2010.pdf ... Pick any year and I don't think we ever out drew them.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------

The survey conducted by Nate Silver is probably not absolutely perfect, and may have placed a little too much emphasis on the immediate or short-term. The University of Alabama should have more fans than Auburn, at least by now. And, to be fair, I think the survey was conducted sometime around or during Cam Newton's championship season.

But, it is probably as accurate of an estimate for fanbase size as we have. I trust its credibility than more than biased fans making their own speculations. And, it is probably 'more or less' correct.

2. Attendance numbers do not disprove fanbase sizes. I doubt NC State and similar teams actually have more fans and national interest than Miami, even if they get better attendance.

USF's alumni base could be more spread out. The team is younger and has been less privileged with conference affiliation.

The comparison wasn't between NCSU and UM, an obvious outlier. It was between NCSU and USF/UCF and your last sentence explains perfectly why the Wolfpack fanbase is probably larger than ours. USF is "younger and has been less privileged with conference affiliation" than NCSU." 

[Florida Bull]

I also think NCSU is overrated. People have them being a "no-brainer" to the SEC, while "FSU and Miami are unworthy." But, we and UCF each have more college football fans than NC State.

... in the state of Florida.

----------------------------------------------------------------

There was a national survey that estimated USF and UCF as having larger football fanbases than NCSU.

I know it might be hard to believe they are ahead of an ACC member. But, it actually makes sense, as Florida is about twice as populous as North Carolina and more football-oriented.

If it's that survey that was posted on another thread in here, it was pretty unscientific .... I don't know if using football attendance records is a better indicator of fanbase but if it is, NCSU definitely has us there .... http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_records/Attendance/2010.pdf ... Pick any year and I don't think we ever out drew them.

----------------------------------------------------------------

The survey conducted by Nate Silver is probably not absolutely perfect, and may have placed a little too much emphasis on the immediate or short-term. The University of Alabama should have more fans than Auburn, at least by now. And, to be fair, I think the survey was conducted sometime around or during Cam Newton's championship season.

But, it is probably as accurate of an estimate for fanbase size as we have. I trust its credibility than more than biased fans making their own speculations. And, it is probably 'more or less' correct.

2. Attendance numbers do not disprove fanbase sizes. I doubt NC State and similar teams actually have more fans and national interest than Miami, even if they get better attendance.

USF's alumni base could be more spread out. The team is younger and has been less privileged with conference affiliation.

The comparison wasn't between NCSU and UM, an obvious outlier. It was between NCSU and USF/UCF and your last sentence explains perfectly why the Wolfpack fanbase is probably larger than ours. USF is "younger and has been less privileged with conference affiliation" than NCSU."

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But, the empirical evidence indicates USF still has a larger fanbase-even if younger.

And, Miami is a part of the discussion. People have advocated the SEC should automatically dismiss Miami while adding NC State immediately at least after UNC joins the Big 10, if not earlier.

Edited February 20, 2013 by Florida Bull

[Triple B]

But, the empirical evidence indicates USF still has a larger fanbase-even if younger.

 

Actually, the empirical evidence, football attendance, supports just the opposite ... 

[BaltoBull]

 

 

 

I also think NCSU is overrated. People have them being a "no-brainer" to the SEC, while "FSU and Miami are unworthy." But, we and UCF each have more college football fans than NC State.

NC State makes a ton of sense if you are the SEC and you are trying to increase your TV VIEWERSHIP and MARKET SHARE. The SEC already has enough eyeballs on it in Florida.

There's an awful lot of money to be made by expanding into North Carolina.

Watch, NC State attendance will EXPLODE if they get the invite.

----------------------------------------------------------------

1. Should the SEC bring in projects?

2. There is probably more money in adding Syracuse and/or Pitt.

1. No more of a 'project' than Missouri, I think. The last time the Tigers won a conference was 1969. Since then, in the 16 they were in the B12, the Tigers made the CCG twice.

- Before that, they weren't setting the world on fire.

- NC State hasn't been that great either, to tell the truth.

2. Please. Upstate New York and Northwestern PA in the SEC? Really, dude? Hell, why don't we start applying to the PAC then?

- This is all about forming viable networks with 'brand' names and being able to charge more to cable companies for carriage. It makes an AWFUL LOT of $en$e to add a school from NC and

VA to the SEC. The SEC can add practically any 'brand' from the south it wants. It makes sense for the SEC to concentrate on the SOUTHEAST. They are not as desperate as the B12 was

when they added WVA.

- Personally, I can see a situation a lot like what moved A&M to the SEC. NC State would LOVE to move out of UNC's shadow, I think. Going to the SEC is a great way to do that.

----------------------------------------------------------------

1. NC State is more of a 'project' than Missouri. Missouri has one of the 25 (probably 23rd) largest college football fanbases. NC State has been estimated at 59th. Missouri is the flagship in its state. As you mentioned, NC State is behind UNC (and Duke-although not mentioned by you if I recall).

2. Pitt and SU are closer to the Southeast than we are to the Pacific Coast.

The SEC needs NCSU to develop a brand?

If the SEC needs population for carriage fees, then why not go with more popular and well-rounded schools in more populous states?

If the SEC can just build brands, then why not select somebody with more potential?

And, wouldn't desperation entail the requirement of being less selective?

I personally have no problem with NCSU. I like the university and see it as a great institution USF should associate with. But, I do not like logical inconsistencies from people rationalizing NC State to the SEC-over other candidates-when they fail their own stated standards (I.e. fanbase size, probably television ratings, national appeal or brand, adding new population, etc.).

1.) No. I think you misunderstood me, or I wasn't clear. I was insinuating the SEC was only interested in "brands'. The SEC does not want to build 'brands' per se, but wants to include teams that are at least on the national radar. I also believe the SEC will not 'tarnish' it's brand by selecting a NBE school.

 

2.) Yes, geographically that's true, but again, you missed my point - it's the SOUTHEASTERN Conference. There is no way most schools belonging to the conference will accept a "Yankee" school. Being in the SOUTHEAST (read: south of the Mason-Dixon Line) is part of the conference's identity, more so than the other conferences, IMO. I do think Virginia is as far north as the conference will go.

 

3.) Yes. They want carriage fees. If they could get UNC, I bet they would. Most seem to think UNC is B10 bound (correct me if I'm wrong). What more popular schools, in a state not populated by and bordering a SEC state to you suggest? Oklahoma? Kansas? Illinois? Indiana? Ohio?

 

4.) More populous states are you referring to? For reference, as of 2012, North Carolina is the 10th most populated state, Virginia is 12th. 

 

Take a look at that map you referenced when you determined when Pitt and Syracuse were closer to the SEC than we are to the PAC and tell me how NC State, or any school in North Carolina does not fit PERFECTLY in the SEC's footprint.

 

The SEC is not desperate, they hold the cards in this game and know exactly what they are doing.

 

Please explain my logical inconsistencies. I welcome your response. 

[Florida Bull]

But, the empirical evidence indicates USF still has a larger fanbase-even if younger.

Actually, the empirical evidence, football attendance, supports just the opposite ...

--------------------------------------------------------------

Attendance and fanbase size are separate measures.

Edited February 20, 2013 by Florida Bull

[Triple B]

 

But, the empirical evidence indicates USF still has a larger fanbase-even if younger.

Actually, the empirical evidence, football attendance, supports just the opposite ...

 

--------------------------------------------------------------

Attendance and fanbase size are separate measures.

 

Then what empirical evidence supports USF having a larger football fanbase? ... or maybe I'm not grasping what empirical means. Always thought it meant something like observable.

[Florida Bull]

I also think NCSU is overrated. People have them being a "no-brainer" to the SEC, while "FSU and Miami are unworthy." But, we and UCF each have more college football fans than NC State.

NC State makes a ton of sense if you are the SEC and you are trying to increase your TV VIEWERSHIP and MARKET SHARE. The SEC already has enough eyeballs on it in Florida.

There's an awful lot of money to be made by expanding into North Carolina.

Watch, NC State attendance will EXPLODE if they get the invite.

----------------------------------------------------------------

1. Should the SEC bring in projects?

2. There is probably more money in adding Syracuse and/or Pitt.

1. No more of a 'project' than Missouri, I think. The last time the Tigers won a conference was 1969. Since then, in the 16 they were in the B12, the Tigers made the CCG twice.

- Before that, they weren't setting the world on fire.

- NC State hasn't been that great either, to tell the truth.

2. Please. Upstate New York and Northwestern PA in the SEC? Really, dude? Hell, why don't we start applying to the PAC then?

- This is all about forming viable networks with 'brand' names and being able to charge more to cable companies for carriage. It makes an AWFUL LOT of $en$e to add a school from NC and

VA to the SEC. The SEC can add practically any 'brand' from the south it wants. It makes sense for the SEC to concentrate on the SOUTHEAST. They are not as desperate as the B12 was

when they added WVA.

- Personally, I can see a situation a lot like what moved A&M to the SEC. NC State would LOVE to move out of UNC's shadow, I think. Going to the SEC is a great way to do that.

----------------------------------------------------------------

1. NC State is more of a 'project' than Missouri. Missouri has one of the 25 (probably 23rd) largest college football fanbases. NC State has been estimated at 59th. Missouri is the flagship in its state. As you mentioned, NC State is behind UNC (and Duke-although not mentioned by you if I recall).

2. Pitt and SU are closer to the Southeast than we are to the Pacific Coast.

The SEC needs NCSU to develop a brand?

If the SEC needs population for carriage fees, then why not go with more popular and well-rounded schools in more populous states?

If the SEC can just build brands, then why not select somebody with more potential?

And, wouldn't desperation entail the requirement of being less selective?

I personally have no problem with NCSU. I like the university and see it as a great institution USF should associate with. But, I do not like logical inconsistencies from people rationalizing NC State to the SEC-over other candidates-when they fail their own stated standards (I.e. fanbase size, probably television ratings, national appeal or brand, adding new population, etc.).

1.) No. I think you misunderstood me, or I wasn't clear. I was insinuating the SEC was only interested in "brands'. The SEC does not want to build 'brands' per se, but wants to include teams that are at least on the national radar. I also believe the SEC will not 'tarnish' it's brand by selecting a NBE school.

2.) Yes, geographically that's true, but again, you missed my point - it's the SOUTHEASTERN Conference. There is no way most schools belonging to the conference will accept a "Yankee" school. Being in the SOUTHEAST (read: south of the Mason-Dixon Line) is part of the conference's identity, more so than the other conferences, IMO. I do think Virginia is as far north as the conference will go.

3.) Yes. They want carriage fees. If they could get UNC, I bet they would. Most seem to think UNC is B10 bound (correct me if I'm wrong). What more popular schools, in a state not populated by and bordering a SEC state to you suggest? Oklahoma? Kansas? Illinois? Indiana? Ohio?

4.) More populous states are you referring to? For reference, as of 2012, North Carolina is the 10th most populated state, Virginia is 12th.

Take a look at that map you referenced when you determined when Pitt and Syracuse were closer to the SEC than we are to the PAC and tell me how NC State, or any school in North Carolina does not fit PERFECTLY in the SEC's footprint.

The SEC is not desperate, they hold the cards in this game and know exactly what they are doing.

Please explain my logical inconsistencies. I welcome your response.

--------------------------------------------------------------

There is no need to dismiss my arguments by claiming I missed your points.

1. If you are referring to being on the national radar, it would have to be quite inclusive for North Carolina State University. Missouri has a bigger national profile.

2. Unless WVU is a realistic option, I actually agree the SEC will never actually add non-Southern schools. Yes, the SEC will almost inevitably add NCSU. They care about potential culture. I just think there are more practical choices.

3. The obvious choices in the states you suggested are locked in grants of rights. But, there are nearby states with more valuable choices.

4.At least Virginia, New York, Pennsylvania, and Florida have larger populations and more popular ACC teams without overlapping media markets with the SEC.

Old Dominion and UNC-Charlotte also fit into the SEC footprint well. But, other teams are preferred because of factors other than completing the Old Confederacy footprint.

I did not claim you use logical inconsistencies. I referred to a group of message board commenters in general, who contradict themselves. I thought about specifically saying you were not being referred to, but assumed it would be unnecessary. Sorry I was not more clear in that regard.

Edited February 20, 2013 by Florida Bull