How long until USF competes w/ top of B.E.

[Bullish]

Let me start off by saying I have been a long time reader but have not had the time to post in the past. I had some time today and I have some questions that it appears some of the posters may have an inside track on providing answers as opposed to me guessing what the answers might be. I also have nothing to compare USF's ahtletic Dept to but from my experiences in dealing with them it seems as though there is a constant struggle to grow due to lack of funding. They run very tight on the amount of personel they hire and have very little budget to wine and dine like the big boys thus struggling to create relationships with the business community.

Caveat - my questions about ranking and players are not to start a debate about the star rankings and which service is best. Instead I woud like to focus more about USF.

1a. Why does USF hoover closer to the middle of recruiting classes for the Big East, this should be apriority before USF can worry about out recruiting the big 3 recruiters of Florida.

1B. Is there a relationship between the football budget and recruiting class? From what I have read and seen USF has one of the lowest Athletic budgets in the Big East and I have to believe there is a relationship but I will await responses from some of you more in the know.

2. Is the Offensive Coordinator / lack of ability to play offense hurting recruiting skill players? I am not a big fan of the gadget offense USF runs and I am not sure how much JL is to blame for the play calling but if I were a WR I would have to put USF very low on the list of schools I would consider.

3. Why has USF only recruited athletes that play QB, instead of QB's that are athletes? I guess a follow up question would be why would a traditional big armed QB even consider USF with the offense that is run here.

4. What is the budget for the assistant coahes and is that the reason why USF refuses to upgrade the OC or is it JL really believes in the OC? I have no idea but would assume that the assistant coaches at USF rank around the lowest in the nation with regards to pay, hell I bet some High school coaches make more money.

Sorry for the long post but I want to become better informed and it does appears that some posters have more info available to them than I have access to. I am looking forward to the day when USF shows up in the rankings and can compete against the big 1 (Miami) and lesser 2 (they know who they are) of the state. GO BULLS!

[bulls96go]

i am not the most informed, but i will take an honest jab at some of your Q's.

1a.this is our first year recuiting after playing in the BE. our class last year was the best of all BE members (maybe #2). however our recuiting has gotten better every year with the exception of QB (my preception), also we have picked up in the QB recuiting the last 2 years. it seems also that our name is being mentioned with more "bigtime " recruits so at least we are becoming known and will hopefully soon start landing more of these prized recuits.

1b. we moved so quickly from 1aa-indy-cusa-BE that our bills/debt/ leverage position has not been caught up yet. BE money should start flowing this year and should contine to accelerate over the next 3-5 years so i would expect our budget to grow accordingly( IMHO we have done more with less than any school out there)

- if 1a and 1b continue at there present rate of growth and we consistantly win on the field of play in 5 years we will have arrived on the big stage and be positioned to stay there as one of the big 4 in FL, top 20 in polls for a long time-

2. YES and you make a compelling case(others will elaborate)

3. TRUE and again you make a compelling case (hence the call of many for an OC replacement) said another way, if a prize offensive skilled recuit truly wants to be featured (audition for NFL) in an offense or wants to get prepared for the next level. IS USF WITH THIS OC AND SCHEME IN THE TOP 10 WHEN LOOKED AT OBJECTIVELY?

IN LEIU OF THAT DO WE HAVE STRONG TRADITION OR PACKED STADUIMS WITH RABIB FANS?

so JL needs to make some strategic decisions on what BAIT will he use to lure the top recruits on offense over the next 5 years?

4. our assitants pay was low the new contract made that better.

still that is not an excuse there are many young offensive minds out there that a shot at a BCS qb coach or OC position would be attractive.

the money must be better than most non bcs d1a programs, certainly better than d1aa, d11 or d111 or HS. so if the will was there to find one we would have found one (may not be perfectly guarateed but we would have found someone with promise)

that is my take.

P.S. if JL seems to have a blind spot of recuiting it was QB, his blind spot with coaching is OC, he addressed the first i hope he will address  the latter as well.

[smazza]

we willnever compete with west virginia

unless leavitt leaves

or leavitt brings in a real offensive minded coach

and a real  special teams coach

and improves recruiting

[Joe]

The reason for athletes at QB is because well we can get good athletes here by saying they will have the chance to compete at the QB position. Most these kids are told they will have to play WR or DB at bigger schools.

It works in a lot of cases Ben Rothlisberger, Omar Jacobs, and Pat White to name a few.

[windbane]

some good points mentioned, but I'd like to point out that FSU beat Miami this year and won the ACC Championship, then almost beat near undefeated Penn State.  Miami is not a Big 1, they are still part of the the big 3 (UF beat FSU).  anyway, minor detail...

[USFMikeB]

Miami got smoked by LSU in the Sugar Bowl.  They didn't just lose, they got totally demolished.

[smazza]

if we can be as good as miami i will be happy

[Bullish]

Thanks for those who replied.

In reply to Windbane and USFMikeB:

As for big 1 vs big 3 (not the point of the thread) but I will justify with my reasoning. Before attending USF, I followed Miami and Penn State since 1980 however now they do not matter nearly as much because I stand and cheer for USF. IMO, success is viewed by championships and championship only. UF and FSU win their bowl games but rarely play for the championship whereas Miami does not play well other then when playing for the championship. I would take Miami's bowl success in the big games and could care less if they win their other meaningless bowl games. I look at FSU and UF as being the tallest midget or the prettiest ugly girl, lots of bragging but not a lot of substance. Many fans of FSU or UF that attend USF will only begin to cheer for USF when they start winning (the topic of the thread). Just remember, if the team does not win the championship the view is always the same.

After providing my reasoning, I believe Miami has won more championships then FSU and UF combined.

Now back to the topic, how does USF get better and pass the other schools in the Big East as well as the other schools in Florida.

[Joe]

Bullish you logic is flawed. Miami before joing the BE played a joke schedule (see the 1987 SI article where Jimmy Johnson says playing 8 cream puffs a year and 3 hard teams was the best way for his team to win the national title.) In 1992 when Miami starting playing FULL SEASON BE schedules they have lost their "dominance" be it a couple years on probation for cheating in the late 80s, early 90s, a whole other story altogether.

Since 1992:

Miami 3 National Title Appearance (1992,2001,2002) - 1 Nat'l Title

FSU 5 National Title Appearances (1993,1996, 1998, 1999, 2000) - 2 Nat'l Titles

Florida 2 National Title Appearances (1995, 1996) - 1 National Title

I think it's pretty clear on who the dominant team was those years...

As for USF: It's been said a million times. We are a YOUNG program that has not had the time to BUILD THE PIPELINE, that other schools have. It takes several years of recruiting and producing players to actually start pulling in the big boys. When USF starts putting 3-4 guys yearly into the NFL draft, then people might start noticing and the bigger players will come.

[Bullish]

OFF THE USF TOPIC

Joe, now it is you that is using flawed logic. Miami has won 5 Nat'l Championships (83, 87, 89, 91 and 2001), please save the easy schedule bullcrap, this is just an excuse by teams that have not won as many. Miami has also played in at least 3 other championship games (possible more, do not want to do the research) which they lost. FYI, everyone was saying the Longhorns were overated this year because they had an EASY schedule, should we pull their title. I for one do not buy the easy schedule excuses. Take a look back in history, UF refused to schedule Miami until a couple of years ago and look at the drubbing they received then, personally I wish UF would have played Miami every year. Could Miami have tried harder to schedule some more difficult teams maybe but I am not sure many schools would have been willing to play Miami during that run. As for your point about probation, just think how much more of a dynasty they would have been if not for a few loose cannons. All because you do not get caught does not mean you weren't cheating. Check the record books, I believe I am corrct about the championship years.  Again, not the point of this thread but I wish everyone would stop being an FSU / UF apologists.

The best school in the state is the team with the most titles: the winner is MIAMI with 5. The runner ups - FSU 2, UF 1, and USF 0. Let me try a different way Miami 5, the rest of the state 3, the winner again by a KO MIAMI.

Now if everyone would like, we can start another thread for USF fans to determine which school other then USF is the best in the state. I do not get all the love for FSU / UF in a board dedicated to the BULLS.