Who says you cannot win without Facilities?

[Brad]

I guess we could start firing coaches for not winning enough but what do you think that ... will do to USF's reputation?

From a player's perspective - improve it.  I'd want to go where the winners are regardless of whether the bathroom facilities are nice.    ;D  

[USFFan]

I can't think of anyone fired for lack of performance. However, I part of that has been that USF has been realistic and sympathetic to the less than ideal conditions it makes most of it's coaches work under.

Is it really fair to hold someone responsible when they are essentially setup to fail?

IMO, as we start pumping more resources into our programs then I think expectations will and should be heightened.

I guess we could start firing coaches for not winning enough but what do you think that a trigger happy administration and lack of committment to win will do to USF's reputation?

Well, I would hope that Big East membership would go a ways toward removing the handcuffs that everybody seems to think we have.  It's noteworthy that we've been successful in every sport already (women's basketball was the latest to bloom) despite our "poor" facilities.

Second, we can no longer use the facilities as an excuse.  While the playing fields are still poor, the actual training facilities are fine.  

Finally, right now USF's "reputation" is that you can't get fired coming here unless you either harrass your players or drunkenly embarrass the AD.  I'd rather people know that coming here that they need to show some progress on the field/court...

USFFan

[CyberBull]

It's noteworthy that we've been successful in every sport already (women's basketball was the latest to bloom) despite our "poor" facilities.

Eventually you are going to need to improve those poor facilities if you are going to go to the next level. If you don't your competition is going to catch up and eventually pass you (see ucf/stetson/JU/FAU/FIU/Dade Community College). Stagnation is the reward for not acting. I think this applies to USF baseball.

Back in it's mid-1980s early 1990s heyday, baseball was USF's best sport.  It can be argued that it has been the only sport where USF has been a factor nationally. USF should have built on their success back in the late 1980s and made improvements to Red McEwen Field back then.  If they would have gradually upgraded the program back when our main competition in the state was UF, Florida and UM we wouldn't be in this mess and more importantly would not have allowed all these 'smaller' programs to pass us by.

Second, we can no longer use the facilities as an excuse.  While the playing fields are still poor, the actual training facilities are fine.  

While it's nice to think that the new facility is shared equally by all sports, it's most important tenant is football. It is the reason the facility was built. The weightroom is world class, but if you look at the in state competition they all have very nice baseball specific lookerrooms. When recruits compare facilities these kind of things make a difference.

Finally, right now USF's "reputation" is that you can't get fired coming here unless you either harrass your players or drunkenly embarrass the AD.  I'd rather people know that coming here that they need to show some progress on the field/court...

You know....I couldn't agree with you more. However, firing coaches without a committment to winning just makes us the collegiate version of the Arizona Cardinals or the Culverhouse owned Bucs.

[USFFan]

Back in it's mid-1980s early 1990s heyday, baseball was USF's best sport.  It can be argued that it has been the only sport where USF has been a factor nationally. USF should have built on their success back in the late 1980s and made improvements to Red McEwen Field back then.  If they would have gradually upgraded the program back when our main competition in the state was UF, Florida and UM we wouldn't be in this mess and more importantly would not have allowed all these 'smaller' programs to pass us by.

You know as well as I do that Red McEwen was never a palace even back when Cardieri got the job.  But, I guess I'll play along.  Part of Cardieri's job has to have been to insist that he get the tools that he needed.  If he were such a great coach, somebody somewhere would have come along and offered him more than the $60K he's getting.  He's been here for 20 years partly because nobody else has shown an interest.  

While it's nice to think that the new facility is shared equally by all sports, it's most important tenant is football. It is the reason the facility was built. The weightroom is world class, but if you look at the in state competition they all have very nice baseball specific lookerrooms. When recruits compare facilities these kind of things make a difference.

Well, I walked through the baseball-only locker room - pretty sweet.  Not a football player, helmet or pad in sight...

You know....I couldn't agree with you more. However, firing coaches without a committment to winning just makes us the collegiate version of the Arizona Cardinals or the Culverhouse owned Bucs.

And what does keeping mediocre coaches who never show a commitment to winning make us?  Because Cardieri's drawn a USF paycheck for a quarter century now and I don't think there's enough to show for it.

USFFan

[CyberBull]

You know as well as I do that Red McEwen was never a palace even back when Cardieri got the job.  But, I guess I'll play along.  Part of Cardieri's job has to have been to insist that he get the tools that he needed.  If he were such a great coach, somebody somewhere would have come along and offered him more than the $60K he's getting.  He's been here for 20 years partly because nobody else has shown an interest.  

Well, I walked through the baseball-only locker room - pretty sweet.  Not a football player, helmet or pad in sight...

And what does keeping mediocre coaches who never show a commitment to winning make us?  Because Cardieri's drawn a USF paycheck for a quarter century now and I don't think there's enough to show for it.

USFFan

Nobody has explained to me how a new coach with terrible facilities is going to do much better.

Naturally, I would expect the new guy to have USF in the super regionals and Omaha every year, b/c EC has as recently as 3 years ago been to the NCAAs. :

People should be careful of what they ask for. Everyone wanted a new Offensive Coordinator. We all know what happened.....

Oh btw....was Hobby that terrible a coordinator? Were he and Smith handcuffed by lack of talent at the QB position? Did Leavitt become a bad coach overnight? Did properly recruiting the QB position have anything to do with facilities, or lack thereof?  How did USF go from zero QBs to a potential QB controversy between Julmiste, Grothe, Hill and perhaps Schaefer? Could good facilities actually play a big factor in attracting talent?

[Brad]

Nobody has explained to me how a new coach with terrible facilities is going to do much better.

I'd suggest we try it and find out...

**** CB, facilities do not make the coach, the recruiter, the strategist, the teacher, and on and on.  Facilities don't sign players, make line-up cards or get a kid up in the pen.

As you say, it's a part of the formula.  Mediocre coaches have lost at programs that have nice facilities.   Yes, they get fired.  Good coches have won at programs with mediocre facilities.  Yes, they often move on to places with better facilities (and pay).

You're becoming to focused on facilities alone.  You're not with HOK are you?

[USFFan]

Nobody has explained to me how a new coach with terrible facilities is going to do much better.

Naturally, I would expect the new guy to have USF in the super regionals and Omaha every year, b/c EC has as recently as 3 years ago been to the NCAAs. :

People should be careful of what they ask for. Everyone wanted a new Offensive Coordinator. We all know what happened.....

Oh btw....was Hobby that terrible a coordinator? Were he and Smith handcuffed by lack of talent at the QB position? Did Leavitt become a bad coach overnight? Did properly recruiting the QB position have anything to do with facilities, or lack thereof?  How did USF go from zero QBs to a potential QB controversy between Julmiste, Grothe, Hill and perhaps Schaefer? Could good facilities actually play a big factor in attracting talent?

That's nice, but it has nothing to do with what I said, which is that Cardieri's done nothing to improve the situation here at USF.  We can all carp about Erikson, but at least he showed passion in trying to change things.  You also never addressed the fact that the new facilities do indeed include a very nice baseball-only locker room...

If Cardieri showed 1/10 the passion for USF baseball that you're showing in defending him, we wouldn't be having this conversation.  

USFFan

[CyberBull]

I'd suggest we try it and find out...

**** CB, facilities do not make the coach, the recruiter, the strategist, the teacher, and on and on.  Facilities don't sign players, make line-up cards or get a kid up in the pen.

As you say, it's a part of the formula.  Mediocre coaches have lost at programs that have nice facilities.   Yes, they get fired.  Good coches have won at programs with mediocre facilities.  Yes, they often move on to places with better facilities (and pay).

You're becoming to focused on facilities alone.  You're not with HOK are you?

There is a lot of hyperbole (hyperbull) in my comments. I am not just a big fan of making changes for the sake of change.  

From my point of view USF needs to make a commitment regardless of whoever is the manager. It has nothing to do with being loyal to EC.  

A new coach could energize the program but eventually after the honeymoon is over.....the same problem is going to exist and continue to get worse.

I suppose we could win despite our facilities. That of course is an option but why would we want put ourselves behind the 8-ball like that when facilities is one component of building a winning program that we can fully control?

[smazza]

too bad he was two wins away

we need to get over the hump