bonds v ted williams

[CyberBull]

This is easy....Bonds by a landslide.

Ted Williams was an enigma in life and as we have found out in death.

Bonds is the complete package, a 5-tool kind of player that only comes around a couple times every generation.

Williams was a great hitter but was an average baserunner and fielder at best. It can be argued that his reputation as a hitter is overstated.

Williams never had a 200-hit season. Why? Many reasons but one reason is that his tenacity in waiting for the perfect pitch to hit resulted in him leading the league in walks. Now you counter that Bonds has alot of walks but this was different. Bonds gets intentionally walked alot or pitchers just don't throw anything anywhere near the strike zone.

With williams if the ball was a shade outside his hitting zone he wouldn't swing. Why is this bad? Well as a cleanup hitter you need them to use their big bats for extra base hits and drive in runs. A walk is nice but it puts the burden on the next batter who was obviously not as talented as Williams. Baseball is a team game. So taking a pitch that is just milimeters outside while the winning or tying run is on second base is just bad hitting. The goal is to win right?

Williams was selfish, probably moreso than Bonds. I remember reading an article where a Boston sportswriter was quoted as saying, that "Boston now knows how Britain felt when they lost India. It was was diminished but also a bit relieved."

[smazza]

CB- i couldn't have said it better if i tried 100 times

it is so obvious too me also

i understand not liking bonds and believe me i watch over 100  games a year.if he tried 100% he would produce better number by far

i watched aaron, mays and everyone since and no one was feared liked bonds

i would love other to chime in  on this issue

games

[KnightsRule]

I think you are nuts Cyber.  Ted led league in RBI's three times, asd runs scored 5 times.  He had over 140 rbi 6 times.  Bonds has never had 140+ rbi in a season.  I dont agree on the he needs to swing the bat analogy.  Baseball is a team game and he wanted to get on base. Runs on the scoreboard are what wins games not who knocked them in.  Ted scored over 120+ runs 8 times. Barry 5 times.  Now using your flawed logic it is quite amusing that Barry has had over 160+ hits in a year only TWICE in his career. His season high is 181. 7 times in his career Teddy had at least 181 hits.  Where do you guys get your facts from?  Ted was intentionally walked many many times to but they didnt keep the stat until the end of his career.  In Teds worst year in which he had 400+ abs his worst average was .318.  Barry on the other hand has hit over .318 only 4 times in his career.  Barry batted in .200's 8 times.  Cyber you also say that Ted was an average fielder which is untrue as he was an above average outfielder and he was a good baserunner he just didnt steal bases.

[CyberBull]

I think you are nuts Cyber.  Ted led league in RBI's three times, asd runs scored 5 times.  He had over 140 rbi 6 times.  Bonds has never had 140+ rbi in a season.  I dont agree on the he needs to swing the bat analogy.  Baseball is a team game and he wanted to get on base. Runs on the scoreboard are what wins games not who knocked them in.  Ted scored over 120+ runs 8 times. Barry 5 times.  Now using your flawed logic it is quite amusing that Barry has had over 160+ hits in a year only TWICE in his career. His season high is 181. 7 times in his career Teddy had at least 181 hits.  Where do you guys get your facts from?  Ted was intentionally walked many many times to but they didnt keep the stat until the end of his career.  In Teds worst year in which he had 400+ abs his worst average was .318.  Barry on the other hand has hit over .318 only 4 times in his career.  Barry batted in .200's 8 times.  Cyber you also say that Ted was an average fielder which is untrue as he was an above average outfielder and he was a good baserunner he just didnt steal bases.

KR - it's not just my opinion. This opinion was shared by most of Williams managers throughout his long career.

Nobody is taking away anything from williams but he just wasn't the complete ballplayer that Bonds has been throughout his career.

It's just not about statistics. What baseball historians have found fault with Williams has been approach toward the game. It may sound like we are nitpicking a great player, but if williams swang the bat a few more times instead of taking some very hittable pitches, I guarantee that Boston would of won more games.

Baseball is the ultimate team game but for Williams it was always about his numbers. BTW, before you bring up 1941, where he could of sat the last game of the season to preserve his 0.400 season think about William's MO. I've read quotes from Williams that he even entertained sitting b/c he knew that the opposing pitcher that day could not get him out. If that is not confidence I don't know what it is, but it also shows you how cognizant Williams was about his numbers.

Now look.....with all of this being said I really can't rip Teddy Ballgame. He will always be one of baseball's top 10 players. He is just not in the same class as Barry Bonds. When we talk about Bonds we move up another level and talk about top 5.

My personal Top 5 of All Time:

Bonds...Aaron....Ruth....Mays....Dimaggio

[KnightsRule]

I cant believe you can find fault in the fact that Ted could have sat out the last doubleheader of the season but chose to play and jeapordize his .400 season.  That is incredible. You bring up fact that he didnt have over 200 hits when he clearly outhit Bonds. Anyway I have shown Teds value with stats and all I here in Bonds defense is opinions. Please link all these managers or coaches that said that about Ted as I have been a fan of his my whole life and grew up in Mass and have never heard that. Please provide facts to what you say is all I ask.  How can anybody know that the opposing pitcher could not get him out. he could have hit line drives right at people and they played a double dip that day with two different pitchers and his average actually went under .400 during the first game.

[CyberBull]

KR - you want references?

Read George Will's baseball books. They are choke full of references and antidotes.

Again, williams was a great hitter but when it comes to best player Bonds wins. Williams was a one dimensional player. Bonds would of been an allstar even without a big stick b/c of his gold glove ability in the field and base running skills. Those kind of things win you ballgames.

remember the question was, who is the better baseball player. In that context, Bonds has to win b/c he is a 5 tool guy.

now if the question was, who is the best pure hitter then williams wins. However there is more to baseball than hitting.

[KnightsRule]

The same Bonds who sits with his hands on his knees as a flyball that he thinks is leaving the park goes over his head and hits the wall. Gotta love showing up your pitcher. The same guy that Jeff Kent said is worried about his stats #1 and the rest of his team a distant second? We are entitled to our opinions. Ted scored more runs per game played then Barry so SB's didnt make him score more runs now did it? Ted missed almost 5 full prime seasons. Anyway it is only an opinion and you all know mine and I know yours. Have a happy holiday as I probably wont be back on the board for a couple days.

[smazza]

a cleanup hitter now but a lead off hitter first part of his career

a power hitter that can steal a base is a good thing not a bad thing

cyber came with references and citations

bonds played like 600 less games than ted williams(i may be wrong someone check this out)

bonds had slugging pcts of .800 twice and .790 once

ted was at .735 once

bonds numbers are dominating an era

what person that has seen both play say willaims is a better ball player?

everyone i have heard says bonds

[Guest ?]

Test

[Guest KR]

Barry has played 277 MORE then Teddy. Barry 2569  and Ted 2292