FAU's out of conference

[Warped]

Totally different and completely ignorant to suggest.  When Bowden was doing this the scholarship limit was 95, also there was no BCS and a heirarchy of college football so the best recruiter usually won, and third UF and Miami were still scratching and clawing with FSU to make a national name for themselves- and most out-of-state schools hadn't started recruiting FL as ardently as they all do these day.

Fast forward to today.

1.  The scholarship limits of 85 make it even more difficult to travel to bigger schools and compete.

2.  The BCS heirarchy means the best players usually only go to the best schools or the ones they can win a national championship at.

3.  Today FSU, Miami, UF and now even USF and UCF are so far ahead of FAU that they're scratching and clawing just to keep some of the third tier recruits from leaving the state and staying at FAU.   Basically FAU is landing glorified 1-AA players, and some solid transfer kids with some decent high schoolers mixed in.  It certainly isn't like FSU traveling all over the country to play anyone with guys like Amp Lee, T. Buckley, Deion Sanders, Sammy Smith, Fred and Marvin Jones.... and on and on and on.

When FSU, and Miami built names for themselves in the late 70's and 80's make no mistake of it they did it with the best athletes FL has to offer.  FAU will not have that luxury, not even close, and not by a long-shot.  What's worse is with the tiering structure it will be almost impossible for Schnelly and crew to get those kids because they can't sell any bowl other than the NO's, and no NC.  They could have the Tajah mahal for an athletic facility and it still won't matter.

I'm sure it was considered "ignorant" before when Bobby Bowden wanted to tranform an all-women's school into a football power, too.  What's ignorant is the idea that something like this is impossible.  UF was already a power, and Miami was well on their way well before FSU even showed up on the college football map.  

Fast forwarding to your comments:

1. You're completely wrong.  The scholarship limit of 85 HELPS smaller schools compete.  It's part of the parity.  If the limit was higher, that many more "better" players would go to the bigger schools.  Instead, it's spread out more evenly than before.

2. You may be right here, it may slow down the process, but the smaller schools are starting to break the ranks, albeit slowly.

3.  A little hint:  the athlete that's honorable mention all-dade county is most likely a better football player than mr. north carolina.  There's still LOADS of talent in Florida, and thanks to the scholarship limit (see #1), that talent can't all be taken up by the big 3.  

Keep in mind, USF was in this position just a few years ago.  They started out D 1-AA, barely pulling in athletes.  Started recruiting the Big 3's scraps (if you will).  They didn't make a bowl game while winning 9 as an independant.  They got into a conference (not a big conference), recruited Florida heavily, jumped ships to a BCS conference (which may not even be a BCS conference a year from now), and are building their program by playing decent named-schools (ala Penn St, Miami).  FAU is doing the exact same thing, they're just at the very beginning stages.  Hence why your "ignorant" comment is well....ignorant.

[TripleB]

Keep in mind, USF was in this position just a few years ago.  They started out D 1-AA, barely pulling in athletes.  Started recruiting the Big 3's scraps (if you will).  They didn't make a bowl game while winning 9 as an independant.  They got into a conference (not a big conference), recruited Florida heavily, jumped ships to a BCS conference (which may not even be a BCS conference a year from now), and are building their program by playing decent named-schools (ala Penn St, Miami).  FAU is doing the exact same thing, they're just at the very beginning stages.  Hence why your "ignorant" comment is well....ignorant.

I believe his "ignorant" comment was aimed at the FAU/FSU comparison, so why are you spending a whole paragraph on FAU/USF and ending it with "Hence why your "ignorant" comment is well....ignorant"??

The complexion of college football has vastly changed since FSU's rise and it's doubtful anyone will ever be able to duplicate that. UCF had a chance when they were an indy but weren't able to win the type games that the Bowden's Seminoles did ....

[Guest S.  Bien]

I believe his "ignorant" comment was aimed at the FAU/FSU comparison, so why are you spending a whole paragraph on FAU/USF and ending it with "Hence why your "ignorant" comment is well....ignorant"??

The complexion of college football has vastly changed since FSU's rise and it's doubtful anyone will ever be able to duplicate that. UCF had a chance when they were an indy but weren't able to win the type games that the Bowden's Seminoles did ....

Precisely, the landscape of college football has changed drastically since Bowden arrived on campus at FSU, and for that matter FSU had already lost it's women's school designation decades before Bowden's arrival.  Bowden did it with the best players FL had to offer- Schnelly won't have close to that type of talent at his disposal.   The comparison is apples and oranges today which is why it isn't relevant and ignorant.  When Bowden was doing it his team had access to any bowl even as an independent and wasn't limited in recruiting or opportunity- FAU is.  If you want a comparison then why isn't NTexas a dominant top 25 team?  Hey, they win the Sun Belt every year and are located in a state that probably has more talent then FL.  You know why, because they are in a third tier conference, competing for a paltry bowl, with inferior facilities to their in-state BCS brethren.  Every year they play their in-state BCS brethren, get waxed, then proceed to win the Sun Belt with records like 6-5 and 5-6 and get to go to the New Orleans bowl.  Despite three straight NO Bowls visits it's done absolutely nothing to help them put a dent in the BCS talent in TX.

As for Dawg's assertion, well if schnelly wins with glorified 1-AA talent, then he'll take them to the New Orleans Bowl.  Are you telling me that he'll get better athletes with those types of prospects?  Are the best athletes in the state going to drop their interest in UF, FSU, Miami, UCF, and USF- who all have better facilities, access to numerous bowls, in far more competitive conferences- to come to FAU to play for a shot at the wonderful New Orleans Bowl?  Good luck with that proposition, his only shot is landing tons of JC's, transfers, and non-qualifiers and hopefully spend 5-7 years dominating a third tier conference at best.  Even then he'll have trouble traveling to Michigan State and the like winning because there is absolutely no substitute for talent at the 1-A level.  For an example see by North Texas reference above.

[Warped]

The landscape has changed, but the 85 scholly limit only HELPS the smaller schools.  When FSU was rising, they had their shot at the top Florida talent, but UF and Miami could take almost as much as they pleased.  You add in the limits, and there's only so many that can fill FSU/UF/Miami spots, and to a lesser extent UCF/USF.  That leaves more opportunities to FAU.  This is hardly an ignorant statement.  USF was/is doing the same thing in terms of their rise.  Are you saying it'll be impossible for USF to make it?  Would you have said that prior to USF joining CUSA or now the Big East?  It's the exact same plan, although FAU is going at it more aggresively early-on with the road warrior games.

North Texas has been around a long time, and aren't playing big time schools on the road anywhere.  FAU has only been around a couple years.  Add to that the fact that they're located in a much more desireable location, with a legendary coach, and there's your apples to oranges.

[TripleB]

North Texas has been around a long time, and aren't playing big time schools on the road anywhere.

Kansas St., Oklahoma, Texas, Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, Colorado ........ I guess we have different definitions of "big time schools".

[Warped]

Fair enough, but North Texas football has been around since 1890 (according to their site).  FAU has been around since 1999, I believe, and they're already scoring big-time road games.  That was the point.  What about the rest of the post, any comments there?

[TripleB]

Fair enough, but North Texas football has been around since 1890 (according to their site).  FAU has been around since 1999, I believe, and they're already scoring big-time road games.  That was the point.  What about the rest of the post, any comments there?

No need to be repetitive. The college football climate has changed dramatically since FSU made their big leap. It's going to be **** tough to get the kind of kids needed, on a consistent basis, being in the SunBelt conference to pull off what FSU did back then ...

[Warped]

I guess we'll agree to disagree.  As you said, not to be repetitive, but the cliimate has changed, helping out the smaller schools thanks to the 85 limit, which yields parity.  

[DawgPound]

As long as they are in the SBC, North Texas(who I thought would get the 12th CUSA invite) has gone as far as they can go.

[Guest S.  Bien]

The landscape has changed, but the 85 scholly limit only HELPS the smaller schools.  When FSU was rising, they had their shot at the top Florida talent, but UF and Miami could take almost as much as they pleased.  You add in the limits, and there's only so many that can fill FSU/UF/Miami spots, and to a lesser extent UCF/USF.  That leaves more opportunities to FAU.  This is hardly an ignorant statement.  USF was/is doing the same thing in terms of their rise.  Are you saying it'll be impossible for USF to make it?  Would you have said that prior to USF joining CUSA or now the Big East?  It's the exact same plan, although FAU is going at it more aggresively early-on with the road warrior games.

North Texas has been around a long time, and aren't playing big time schools on the road anywhere.  FAU has only been around a couple years.  Add to that the fact that they're located in a much more desireable location, with a legendary coach, and there's your apples to oranges.

The 85 scholarship HELPS, and IT HURTS the smaller schools.  It helps because the perception is it spreads around more talent.  That's true to an extent, but remember we also have nearly 30 more 1-A teams then when FSU started their 'play anyone' montra of the 70's and 80's.  The lessening of scholarships HURTS smaller schools because the NCAA also limits the size of your travel squad, and when you head up to an Oklahoma, or Michigan State where they've got All-American athletes stacked two deep you need all the blood ond flesh on the field.

Generally the point is just because FAU is agreeing to play a bunch of big programs as their homecoming day fodder doesn't mean it resembles or is emulating the tact Bowden took with FSU in the 70's and 80's.  Nor is it a recipe for success or a pathway to the top as FAU, or any other number of smaller Sun Belt Schools can attest to.  

All it simply is, is a way for a school that probably gets less than 7,500 in paid attendance per game, to pay their bills.  It also gives some national press, and mention but generally it's just to pay the bills- 99% of the time the bigger school wins these contests.