Just Hugs being Hugs? Not illegal, but not right

[Guest S.  Bien]

I don't know if he'll build a winner in Manhattan, well let's say I don't know if that's such a foregone conclusion.  Sometimes a guy can skirt the rules in a smaller conference and no one is the wiser, and frankly most won't shutter for fear of rocking the economic engine that's keeping that conference afloat.

Heading into the B12 Huggins is going to find a lot more opposition from his peers.  They're going to be talking to conference officials more and more about Hugs antics, and you can bet they'll take a hardline approach.  This is the B12 not C-USA, they don't need KSU to rise to power they've already got Kansas, Texas, Oklahoma, Missou and the like.  No one is going to bend over for his antics in that conference.  Also, KSU isn't going to embarrass itself among it's conference peers either.  They'll step on Hugs if he gets out of line or if enough conference foes bark.

I find more times than not these 2nd and third stops end up being a little less exciting, or rather anti-climactic then their original place.  No one will deny Bobby Knight isn't a great coach, but quite frankly at Texas Tech he hasn't set the world on fire either.  He's had a few good seasons, but some average ones too.  Hugs is coming in, but you can bet your ass that guys like Self, and Knight, and Anderson, and others will give him the business if things get fishy.  Also, from I've read is those Cinci kids are not a lock to go to college either.  Both are supposedly borderline eligible, and if doesn't sign either of those guys then what?  He's back to square one recruiting against in-state power "rock chalk, jayhawk."  

My bet is he'll have some decent seasons at KSU by KSU standards but once things tapper off he'll be a middle of the B12 packer.

[USFreak]

I don't know if he'll build a winner in Manhattan, well let's say I don't know if that's such a foregone conclusion.  Sometimes a guy can skirt the rules in a smaller conference and no one is the wiser, and frankly most won't shutter for fear of rocking the economic engine that's keeping that conference afloat.

Heading into the B12 Huggins is going to find a lot more opposition from his peers.  They're going to be talking to conference officials more and more about Hugs antics, and you can bet they'll take a hardline approach.  This is the B12 not C-USA, they don't need KSU to rise to power they've already got Kansas, Texas, Oklahoma, Missou and the like.  No one is going to bend over for his antics in that conference.  Also, KSU isn't going to embarrass itself among it's conference peers either.  They'll step on Hugs if he gets out of line or if enough conference foes bark.

I find more times than not these 2nd and third stops end up being a little less exciting, or rather anti-climactic then their original place.  No one will deny Bobby Knight isn't a great coach, but quite frankly at Texas Tech he hasn't set the world on fire either.  He's had a few good seasons, but some average ones too.  Hugs is coming in, but you can bet your ass that guys like Self, and Knight, and Anderson, and others will give him the business if things get fishy.  Also, from I've read is those Cinci kids are not a lock to go to college either.  Both are supposedly borderline eligible, and if doesn't sign either of those guys then what?  He's back to square one recruiting against in-state power "rock chalk, jayhawk."  

My bet is he'll have some decent seasons at KSU by KSU standards but once things tapper off he'll be a middle of the B12 packer.

I actually don't think he'll be at Kansas State long enough to make it an issue.  He'll win quickly and likely only be there 3 years.  One or two early NBA announcements and he'll move on.  Enough time to make a quick mark, build up some 'good behavior' capital and end up in a major media market again....or so my theory goes.

After all, have you been to Manhattan, KS?  I have a friend that goes to Antartica for years at a time.  I could understand working the summer there (4 mos. rotation), but she goes for years.  To be honest Antartica seems a lot more inviting than Manhattan. :-)

My true theory is if the WVU position comes open that is where he'll be to finish his career.  He may be a little shady, but he's an alum and maybe you treat your school better than you treat your employer?

[CyberBull]

Much ado about nothing...

This happened at USF, but just a much lower level. Didn't we sign a coach from DaytonaBeach CC, who also happened to be the coach of Solomon Jones and B-Mo? Maybe those kids would have signed with USF anyways, but hiring Frank Brunell surely didn't hurt.

Furthermore, this happens ALL THE TIME in college basketball (see Louisville and Memphis.)

Some people just don't like Huggins. If you are a USF fan and are not privately wondering what Huggins would do for a program then you are not being honest to yourself.  As far the stigma of hiring a Huggins I think it's a little bit over-rated.

Could the women's basketball program have had a worse stigma than alleged institutional racism? Probably not...yet fast forward a couple years and the program is slowly becoming a media darling of the talking heads when you keep reading about comments such "rising USF program" or "most underrated program in the big east".

At the end of the day, winning is what people want. If you don't believe me ask all the EC haters out there....

[CyberBull]

Simmonds and Clark are not relevant examples, because they are actual coaches, and in Clarks case he's a college coach, and in Simmonds case he has bonified coaching experience in the NFL, and has worked in college as a grad assistant before.

Taking a coach who's someone's guardian is a different animal all together.  If that isn't blatant and black and white then someone is just trying to muddy the debate.

The fact is the Tribune was completely inaccurate on their depiction on what occurred and how this went down.  I know this for fact.  Also,  I can't seriously see how USF would have offered him even if there was any teeth to the rumor.  I would be willing to bet that the BE Commish or our President would have squashed before it got any legs.

In any event effort achieved Hug's goal of keeping his name out in the public to secure a big conference job.

Wasn't the Simmonds hiring leaked by the media? Everything I heard when this came down was that they wanted to announce this after Signing Day. Some people linked the timing with trying to affect Daron Rose's decision. To think that Simmonds can deliver Garcia is crazy. Everyone wants this kids such USC...the real USC...in  SoCal, Miami, FSU etc... The only way Garcia comes to USF is if he wants to go to USF. No coach is going to talk into something he doesn't want to do...

[USFreak]

Greatest Recruiting Class Ever?

Not my words, but Charlotte follower:

http://charlotte.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=528598

Of course they have to qualify.

[USFreak]

Much ado about nothing...

This happened at USF, but just a much lower level. Didn't we sign a coach from DaytonaBeach CC, who also happened to be the coach of Solomon Jones and B-Mo? Maybe those kids would have signed with USF anyways, but hiring Frank Brunell surely didn't hurt.

Furthermore, this happens ALL THE TIME in college basketball (see Louisville and Memphis.)

Right, and I guess that was my point.  There are countless examples.  I've seen more than a few with so and so's dad getting hired by this staff and so on.  That one the NCAA probably needs to address.  The problem here is that these are just concerning the No. 1, No. 2 and No. 3 players in the country.  That will come with some scrutiny.

I know Huggins was never coming to USF, but could you imagine that headline in a Tampa paper?  USF in hunt for Top 3 players in the country?

That would be hilarious.  1-15 to that mentioned as a possible recruiting class.   Gerard Arcement would have nothing on that class.

[Brad]

Much ado about nothing...

This happened at USF, but just a much lower level. Didn't we sign a coach from DaytonaBeach CC, who also happened to be the coach of Solomon Jones and B-Mo? Maybe those kids would have signed with USF anyways, but hiring Frank Brunell surely didn't hurt.

Furthermore, this happens ALL THE TIME in college basketball (see Louisville and Memphis.)

Again, it does happen all some of the time, but I can not say that your example passes the apples to apples test.  I do not believe Mosley and SoJo were committed (verbally or otherwise) to a school Brunell WORKED FOR before Brunell was hired at USF.  They were ready to move to a DI-A school and moved with Brunell.  It's not like Brunell worked at FSU and took them to USF.  they were leaving DBCC, it was just a matter of whereto.

It's just a matter of where one chooses to delineate fair and ethical play.  Legal, sure - the writer points that out.  Would a majority of coaches approve such a practice?  I doubt it.

[Brad]

It's not the same Freak.. If your publisher advanced you the money for your next book and you went to another publisher and took that book with you, you would be sued.  Assuming you still write...of course...same would happen if I took company materials to my new job.  Hell I have a clause that says I can not bring customers or even contact them...there would be a lawsuit.

[USFreak]

Again, it does happen all some of the time, but I can not say that your example passes the apples to apples test.  I do not believe Mosley and SoJo were committed (verbally or otherwise) to a school Brunell WORKED FOR before Brunell was hired at USF.  They were ready to move to a DI-A school and moved with Brunell.  It's not like Brunell worked at FSU and took them to USF.  they were leaving DBCC, it was just a matter of whereto.

It's just a matter of where one chooses to delineate fair and ethical play.  Legal, sure - the writer points that out.  Would a majority of coaches approve such a practice?  I doubt it.

I guess I don't understand how it is any different than a kid changing his mind on signing day.   The situation is fluid right up until the signature hits the paper.

Huggins was given the money and had the connections to make it happen.  Nobody forced anybody to do anything.  I mean obviously the Zabian episode at USF was somewhat similar.  A commit to USF on USF's dime and Greenberg took him to VT and he turned out to be a pretty good player.  USF never sued and never really made a stink about it and that was a head coach.  Assistants, I'd argue, have a lot less cachet than a head coach and should probably be less accountable in terms of the program.  They don't get the contract guarantees and all that good stuff.

Just because Zabian verballed a month or two ahead of signing day doesn't mean he has to do anything until signing day.  

[USFreak]

It's not the same Freak.. If your publisher advanced you the money for your next book and you went to another publisher and took that book with you, you would be sued.  Assuming you still write...of course...same would happen if I took company materials to my new job.  Hell I have a clause that says I can not bring customers or even contact them...there would be a lawsuit.

I would, but then again I would also have a contract and a lot of that would be in writing.  If the publisher gave me an empty promise of "hey, we'd really like to see your next book"...well, then that is different than here is a signing bonus and a contract to publish your next book.

You are referring to a non-compete clause in your job and I've signed a few in my day.  One difference, though.  I actually signed something.  It wasn't a virtual document, but a real one.  You signed a real one too.  That is binding.

Bailey hasn't signed anything.

Until the rule is changed the rule will be exploited.  It is that simple.  I'm trying to get my bearings on this thread.  Are people trying to say, "see, I told you Huggins was a guy that deals in the gray areas and is a little shady?" or "see Huggins is going to build an instant winner?"

If it is either of those you are both right.