Bull Dozer

the game didnt get out of hand till the 2nd qtr so atleat we have 1qtr which is better than none

This will be and advantage for us. They had to bring everything and the kitchen sink in their game plan to even have a prayer to beat UF, we on the other hand looked very vanilla especially on defense. Eventhough UCF was out classed we will have an idea of what to expect on game day while if we just open our offense up a bit and play with some aggressive blitz schemes and play more zone coverages what they see on game day will be nothing like the tape they have.

Usually, your rival team in HS is in the same confererence or cassification as you are, and you're competing for standings in conference. Let's say you went to a 5-A school in FLA, you're not going to have any real "rivalry" with the 4-A  (or 3-A or 6-A, whatver, you get the point) school down the road from you, no matter how close they might be, and how many players know each other, because you're not in the same division. Your confusing important game with rivalry.  If we used your definintion here then UF FSU isnt a rivalry.  A rivalry is a game that standings conference titles etc all go out the window, a rivalry is personal and goes deeper then standings rankings etc.  A rivalry is a game that can make your season even if its the only game you win.  I think you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone who would consider FSU-UF a true rivalry before 1978, say, even though they've played each other since the 50's.  It wasn't until both teams began competing at the same level year-in and year-out that it became a rivalry of any importance, especially to FSU fans.  Up until that point, FSU was an afterthought, they were bottom feeders that UF didn't really care about, and FSU fans were envious of the success of their conterparts in G'ville, but the game wasn't huge to them either. So again, it's all about level of play. This is what I was getting at with the conference/division talk in my previous post. Up until '75-'76, I'd say UF-FSU was like a 6-A school playing a neigboring 3-A school and kicking their asses every year. Then over the course of the next several years, that 3-A school upped its enrollment and starting getting better players and coaches, and all of a sudden became a 6-A school on the same level as their opponent. At this point, UCF is still a step behind USF. Not as drastic as the UF-FSU analogy above, but similar. USF is in the big-leagues already--they've got BCS affiliation, and all they lack is some consistent play at bowl-worthy level. UCF still is trying to get to that level.  A rivalry with a *slightly* bigger in-state brother is key to them, while it's not just that big of a deal to USF.  why dont you go ask the players if its important or not.......And ok i used a bad example, ok how about USC Vs ND, UF Vs UGA. Nitpicking my analogy doesnt prove anything, like i said it starts with the players and if you've read anything all from our players about this game they are amped and ready and treating it like a rivalry.

Can you clarify this a bit?? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't understand how USF benefits from NOT playing the game. We have the edge right now, due to a stroke of luck we have the BCS tag and we have access (regardless of likelihood) to a national championship and/or a BCS bid UCF doesn't. This means we have no need to play this game to set up apart. It is now on the shoulders of UCF to prove to recruits that they are on par with us and the only way they can do that is to play. We benefit by completely taking away any hope they have of "proving" they are on our level. So basically they give us nothing, we give them hope. You didn't really answer the question and contradict yourself. I agree that UCF is not on USF's level because USF is in a BCS conference.  How does playing (or beating) us change that?  How does scheduling the games for the next 20 years give them the ability to prove they are on our level?  How does the series give them hope? Well, it doesn't.  So by not playing the game, you are not taking anything away from UCF. How did I contradict myself? I believe that the only way that UCF will be able to compete with recruits will be to beat us on the field, just because you think that won't happen does not mean I'm contradicting a thing. I think they are the team that is closest to us in battling for recruits and by not giving them assistence in that arena is a benefit to us. Again, just because you don't agree doesn't mean that I'm contradicting myself. Somehow I think most people that are dying for this "rivalry" are really just expecting that we are so far ahead of them that it will just be a game that we'll win and can rub it in their face. Unfortunately I think we are closer than most others do and have a real chance of blowing some of these games, if that happens I hope you all come back here talking up the benefits that a loss to them gave us. I can guarantee you if that happens they'll be trying to use it every way possible to give them leverage. This is your problem ( the bolded statement), most outsiders (ie not fans of either side) view these programs on the same level, if not UCF slightly ahead due to the attention O'Leary got them this offseason.  People really need to wake up and realize in everyones eyes that dont wear green and gold goggles we're pretty much equal. ÂÂ

yes they can come here but those teams already have enough tough rivalry games and arent looking for new ones.  Once this school gets to big 4 status i wouldnt be shocked to see most or maybe  all of them (but i doubt it) duck us.  Why schedule a team that is going to have alot of potential to beat you when your already in tough conferences that give you a pretty brutal schedule? Edit: im referring to the state schools, i would love to get a real BE rival, and Rugters seems to be a logical choice as they are tryint to gain respect in the BE just as we are

Usually, your rival team in HS is in the same confererence or cassification as you are, and you're competing for standings in conference. Let's say you went to a 5-A school in FLA, you're not going to have any real "rivalry" with the 4-A  (or 3-A or 6-A, whatver, you get the point) school down the road from you, no matter how close they might be, and how many players know each other, because you're not in the same division. Your confusing important game with rivalry. If we used your definintion here then UF FSU isnt a rivalry. A rivalry is a game that standings conference titles etc all go out the window, a rivalry is personal and goes deeper then standings rankings etc. A rivalry is a game that can make your season even if its the only game you win.

Actually, no.  UCF is in a better conference and has a better team. Also, there has been competition between USF and UCF in other sports and in other ways for quite some time... Fifteen years ago there was the same disdain between USF and UCF... that was before USF even started down the path to a football... Do you really think the average fan in Tampa 1)looks at UCF any differently than the other two? and 2)cares at all about any games we've played in soccer or tennis? No I don't see anything about this that will generate a lasting interest in the area. I'm sorry if it bothers a few people that being part of the "little two" is less then exciting, I'm just glad our program is just as uninterested. The average fan in tampa is a bandwagon fan period, end of story, thanks for coming out.  Look at the buc's the stadium wasnt packed TILL THEY STARTED WINNING, same with the lightning.  And yes USF had a good record but in college football winning means competeing for a conference championship every year (and i mean seriously competeing not just being in the middle of the pack) and a national championship every few years.  When this starts happening USF will gain the average fan, because right now they are at a sports bar watching one of the big 3 on saturdays.  Once we start to seriously vie for conference championships every year those fans will see that they can see high quality football live right in their own back yard.  The same way it did with the other two franchises in the city that went from low attendence and a losing record to packed houses and rabid fans.  Basically if you supporting this program now and have been for atleast 5 years you are a die hard, the casual fan will come when we can consistantly field a team to challenge for a conference championship EVERY YEAR.  Your right, and guess what that would be the case with or without UCF on the schedule. So again, this game is not beneficial. In my opinion this game should be in week two replacing one of the cupcakes we always have.  Their program is equal to ours in national media eyes (and even ahead of us in some cases) so how does it hurt us, especially nationally?  With the way ESPN slobs O'Leary wouldnt it be nice to get a win over a club who recieved a good amount of national attention so far this season?  If we lose they see it as UF losing to say georgia or LSU, basically we would be losing to a team that is capable of beating us (or in alot of cases should beat us i.e vegas), so there is no step back here.  Alot of people on this board have such a small and narrow scope about how our program is viewed nationally.  This is a good game for us it should remain on the schedule until its proved that we are leagues ahead of them (or even vice versa, yeah thats right i said it) and the game no longer becomes competitve, or we can get UCF type numbers at the stadium and away games against most other opponents.

with the way we've played so far we dont deserve a mention. Until we show we are leagues better then what we have shown so far we dont deserve national attention.

Actually, no.  UCF is in a better conference and has a better team. Also, there has been competition between USF and UCF in other sports and in other ways for quite some time... Fifteen years ago there was the same disdain between USF and UCF... that was before USF even started down the path to a football... Do you really think the average fan in Tampa 1)looks at UCF any differently than the other two? and 2)cares at all about any games we've played in soccer or tennis? No I don't see anything about this that will generate a lasting interest in the area. I'm sorry if it bothers a few people that being part of the "little two" is less then exciting, I'm just glad our program is just as uninterested. The average fan in tampa is a bandwagon fan period, end of story, thanks for coming out.  Look at the buc's the stadium wasnt packed TILL THEY STARTED WINNING, same with the lightning.  And yes USF had a good record but in college football winning means competeing for a conference championship every year (and i mean seriously competeing not just being in the middle of the pack) and a national championship every few years.  When this starts happening USF will gain the average fan, because right now they are at a sports bar watching one of the big 3 on saturdays.  Once we start to seriously vie for conference championships every year those fans will see that they can see high quality football live right in their own back yard.  The same way it did with the other two franchises in the city that went from low attendence and a losing record to packed houses and rabid fans.  Basically if you supporting this program now and have been for atleast 5 years you are a die hard, the casual fan will come when we can consistantly field a team to challenge for a conference championship EVERY YEAR. ÂÂ

UCF is the most logical here. They compete for the same students, athletes, are very close to each other, and there is a nice little hatred between the two for often being confused for one another by outsiders. The people who dont want this rivalry really have a pretty slanted view of our program and UCF's from what ive seen on here. We've come along way but they seem to think were about 5 steps ahead of where we are in the big picture of things. If everyone can think back to a time long long ago and maybe a place far far away called high school, who was your biggest rival? Usually the school closest to you because you were either friends with alot of people on that roster or have been playing against them since you were little and hate them with a passion. This is exactly what a rivalry is ITS STARTS WITH THE PLAYERS NOT THE FANS! The fans are just along for the ride and will adopt whatever rivalry the players create. If your at a game with a team you play regularly and you notice your players and the opposing players kick it up a notch when a certain team comes to town you to will do so just by the nature of being a good fan. When your at a game and the players are just knocking the snot out of each other every play and playing like their on PCP that creates a whole different enviornment and freenzied feeling in the stands that will elevate the fans to another level of roudiness. This is how rivalries start when players and fans together take things to another level for a certain team. It doesnt happen over night as the fans usually take a while to get to the level of excitement the players feel when playing a rival, but i believe UCF can be this kind of game. There is so much competition between the two and the players really do get up for this game.

We have looked very vanilla thus far. Im hoping that we'll let the cat outta the bag this week and open up our game plan on both sides of the ball.

what can i say im a realist.

Yup, and this is exactly what we are lacking a coach that is likeable and will cooperate with the media to gain us exposure.

Hes a great return man but unless he can kick, punt, and teach our guys not to make illegal blocks hes just a drop of spring water in a bucket full of raw sewage Yeah, I know, I just like countering Smazza's "gloom and doom" takes on everything with a dose of positivity here and there.  Let him be every thread needs a debbie downer.

Ummmm, I'm a recruit.  CUSA championship game or chance at a BCS bowl?  Dang I'm stumped.  Now which is better - coach dedicated to his university for life b/c he's from that area plus he started the program from scratch vs a coach that would lie on his resume to coach at a top flight BCS school?  Don't fool yourself either.  If VA, UNC, Arkansas, CO or TX Tech offer, he'd go.  I use these schools 'cuz the are competitive in thier BCS coonference.  The conference elite would not consider GOL.  The ones mentioned might.  Last one, play in a tinker toy 45K OCS or a 60K+ NFL stadium?  Sorry, I know my selection. O'Leary>>>>Jim in the eyes of the media, even with the scandal. Kids watch ESPN and see segments about what hes doing at UCF, wheres anything about Leavitt and USF :-? Hate to break it to you but ESPN runs the sports world for most casual fans, including recruits. When they see UCF on TV because of O'Leary that means something CUSA or not. Your purely speculating about him leaving for those other programs, especially with him signing that extension reccently. The BCS elite wouldnt consider him? So the fighting Irish arent a major program eh? If he doesnt lie on his app hes still coaching them right now. He wasnt fired because of lacking what he lied about he was fired on the principal or the whole thing. Having your OWN stadium shows dedication of building the program reguardless of size. Renting a stadium from the city or a NFL team doesnt have the same ring as an OCS to a recruit as they want to play in a NFL stadium IN THE NFL NOT COLLEGE!!! College stadiums are different then NFL stadiums from design and tradition, theres just something about playing in YOUR SCHOOL'S stadium on campus. The only real edge we have in this whole thing is the BCS if you cant see that your fooling yourself.....

Hes a great return man but unless he can kick, punt, and teach our guys not to make illegal blocks hes just a drop of spring water in a bucket full of raw sewage

I agree.  Do we really go head to head with UCF for many players? You can count on one hand the number of players on our roster from the "Central Florida" area.  You dont have to be from central Florida to go to UCF. Im sure there are recruits in south and north FL considering both schools. Contrary to what most people here see (with their green and gold goggles) our programs are pretty much viewed as at the same level by people nationally, UCF may even be starting to pull ahead there (of course building a OCS and especially having O'Leary help ALOT). So if a kid knows he prolly wont sniff playing time at the big 3 till hes prolly a senior and wants to stay in state and play soon its us and them.

That's impossible. Knight Light just said on another thread that they are not as nationally recognized as UCF .... ;D

It has nothing to do with being greek. It has to do with misplaced anger, people shouldnt be mad at him for buying the tickets as it was within the rules. People should be mad at SG the people who allowed that loop hole in the system.

Hate to break it ya but alot of folks nationally see them on a better track to getting to the top of the big east then USF.

Its the UF UT weekend no matter what that will be on the front page.

actually joe average fan only cares about top 25 teams. UCF should only be dropped for OOC games against good BCS teams end of stroy thats it. IN & IL are garbage period, just because youre in a big conference doesnt mean your a big program and people will respect a team for beating you. So because UK is in the SEC people respect the teams that kick their head in for beating them? No they dont its what a good program is supposed to do. People talk about this program going and gaining exposure you do that with wins over GOOD PROGAMS IN BIG CONFERENCES if your scheduling the bottom feeders of major conferences its just as bad as scheduling top teams in garbage conferences. Unless we're dropping UCF for a middle top of a major conference team it makes no sense. It will be a good payday, in state recruits (who obviously make up the majority of our roster) considering the two schools will lean more on the winner, if the two dont play dont you think the one thats building a OCS has a pretty good advantage over a program that doesnt have one in the works. You can hate on UCF all you want but if talk to someone who doesnt care about either program and told them the plans both schools have for advancing their programs over the next say 7 years they would obviously say UCF is trying harder than we are.

oh irony

Those are terms that represent what UCF used to be called and names that were thrown around a while back as possible new names .... Florida Techinical Unversity/Orlando College/Orlando University ..... I think those are right, anyway. oh and ;D

1) USF 2) 28-10 3) 478 4) Amp Hill