Bull94

Give the kid a break. First off, he wasn't able to support his kids because the NCAA doesn't allow it. I believe they have a rule against athletes having jobs. Maybe if the schools that bring in billions of dollars in revenue and pay their coaches multi-millions found it in their hearts to actually give the ones bringing in that money a fair share, they could support their kids. I find nothing wrong with him trying to get an education to better his economic standing. Does anyone know what he has to do in order to get his license back? Pay back child support? He should just drop out of school now and flip burgers full time. In the long run his kids will be much better off!! The system stinks. The NCAA chews them up and spits them out. There should be a stipend these full time student athletes get in order to support their families. Being a football player is like having a full time job only they don't get paid to bring in millions to the schools. That's the crime.

Interesting apples and oranges comparison. Women's hoops vs. Men's hoops..... I could only imagine what beastie (or any of us for that matter) would be saying if we had hired a 28 year old Mens coach whose only head coaching experience came at the high school level. We would have run him out of town with a record like CF had his first 2 years . Lucky we didn't run CF out as women's coach. CRM vs. CF. Nearly identical records after the first 2 years. Maybe different approaches but they seem to be on similar paths. Good programs take time to build. MM I agree that Coach F is underpaid but it is a fact that men's coaches are paid about 3 times on average what women's coaches are paid. That is a whole different discussion. CF makes about $80k while CRM makes about $240k. Coach F is paid the 12th lowest amount among the top 117 BCS schools. I'd be willing to bet CRM is probably around the same level. Sad but true. If we don't step up to the plate then CF will be gone. I think his contract expires this year??

Bullheaded, I think we can and will be big time. It's just takes time to grow. Our football program has grown faster than our fan and economic base. Miami had this same problem early on. They had good teams but no fan support. The BE brought us in for our potential. Fan potential as well as football talent potential. They realize we aren't there yet. If you thought I had the potential and hired me fresh from school to be an exec then I think you might expect to have to train me and let me gain experience through time before you allowed me to run the company. Trust me. We will be running the BE football company before long!!

Why does everyone think we are a "big time" program? We weren't even around 10 years ago. The fastest growing program,yes. Loads of potential, absolutely. We have gone from 1aa to BCS in a blink of an eye. We have to expect growing pains. It does not make economic sense to rent a 65k seat stadium for 1,500 people. I would be willing to bet UF and FSU don't spend much promoting their spring game. People go because they have been going for years. They have a tradition of going. It will grow with time.  Spend it on an I-275 billboard that 100,000+ people drive by every single day. Make it a really cool iconic u neon sign with info on individual game ticks. Get 1% of the 100k to BUY a ticket to a game. Show them a good time and you may have a season ticket holder. Could you imagine them having a good time at the spring game? It's ungodly hot. No real competitive football being played. And they get to see our 4th best punter play. Not a good way to sell a product even if it is free. We want them there when we have 35,000 screaming fans and it's fourth and goal with the game on the line.

Howie, I think this says it all. Maybe they realize that they won't recoup the investment. Louisville has done a great job. They have a tremendous amount of momentum. They were expected to have a great year last year and nothing indicates they won't again this year. I think if we ended the year ranked in the top ten we would have no problem getting 10k + to our spring game. Season tickets would be an easy sell. Until then I think we need to go after the casual fan during the regular season. Show them what a good product we can put on the field and then expect them to buy season tickets. I think most football fans know that the Bulls play college football now. Now we need to concentrate on building a winner. The best marketing is the buzz created by a winning team.

The problem is that the stadium alone costs $20k. In order to get anywhere near 10k people they would have to spend additional money to advertise. Even then there is no guarantee. I would rather see them focus on the casual fan during the season when attendance (and the games) matters. Billboards around town prompting them to buy walk up tickets. Eventually we will build a program that demands that type of spring game but why not put the money to better use until then. We had a down year last year. Season tickets will be a hard sell no matter how much you promote. Everyone knew the Bucs were here back in the late eighties but no one attended the games. Build a winner and the fans will come. The Bucs and the Lightning have proven that. No matter how much the D-rays promote, they won't get crowds until they start winning (especially at exibition games).

Bullheaded, The spring game is always mentioned in the paper. Free advertising and people still don't show. You honestly think we should waste our ad dollars on promoting a free game plus pay $20k for the stadium! I'm sure the few people that this would attract will say "man I better jump on season tickets, look at all these people here!" I agree with Wooly. Use the $20k on billboards or some other form to get people to regular season games. We don't have an unlimited budget and I think $20k + advertising is a signifigant sum. Why waste it trying to promote a free scrimmage.

I agree Bulldoug. What this team was lacking this year was a 3rd scoring option and some help at the point. Mosley (our 2nd leading scorer last year) would have done wonders for us. When teams keyed on shutting down Leather or Swift, we were done. Turnovers killed us. While we may not have made the NCAA or NIT, I think a better conference record and possibly a mini-run in CUSA tourney would have been likely. I'm still hoping for the CUSA tourney run though. Some might think that this amounts to not producing anything but to me this is quite good progress for a 2nd year in a rebuild.

Save the $20k. Big time programs bring in big time crowds even for their spring games. We're not there quite yet. It's kind of embarrassing to watch a game in a stadium that seats 60k+ when there are only 1,500 diehards there. How many of us would piss and moan if they charged $15 a head so they could break even? $20k is a good chunk of money. I doubt even "sponsors" want to spend that kind of change advertising to so few. BTW I'm in that picture too.

Bulliever, Thanks for the info. I just want people to realize the ranking of the recruit isn't always as important as the character of the recruit. Personally, I thought BB underachieved. Kelvin barely remained academically eligible for a semester. Although it probably didn't hurt to take a flier on him, I think Seth would even admit he was a longshot. Probably why most schools pass on this type of kid. Some of these kids are not cut out for college. No matter how high a ranking they receive. Baker hurts a little. He had tons of upside. I'll trust CRM on that one. Who do you think had a better ranking coming out of high school: Chris Rix or MB? Alot of this ranking stuff is subjective. It's what you do with your potential talent that matters.

TLVS, You're definitely right about sweeping things under the rug. Winning makes everything look prettier. I didn't phrase that correctly. I didn't mean class as in image wise but rather class as in talent level. The only way I could see USF picking up a top 150 recruit is if he lived close to Tampa and wanted to stay close to home and/or had academic issues or character issues that a more established program might not be willing to take a chance on. Those were the type that a very good recruiting SG could bring in. Borderline guys. I think our new coach is going with a completely new philosophy. Nothing wrong with that but it will take time to impliment. Maybe he will take a shot on one of these types but it doesn't seem to fit his style. There is a risk-reward associated with these guys. Sometimes they are not worth trying to build a team around. McCants was ranked #4 in the country. Brown was probably near the bottom of the top 150. McCants was worth taking a shot on. Brown on the other hand...

Beastie, Sorry if I upset you. I didn't mean to suggest USF is some podunk school in the middle of nowhere. Only that we have not put 1/10 the effort or money it takes to build an elite basketball program. The problems run much deeper than CRM's recruiting. The top players Greenie recruited were all from the area and suspect characters to say the least. I'm sure the top schools in the country would not even consider taking a shot on Brown, Waldon, etc. Headcases one and all. I think recruit rankings are overrated. Greenie was supposedly a god when it came to recruiting and that was the best he could do. We tried the me first superstar approach. I'm willing to try the "team" approach now. Bringing in high ranked, borderline headcases didn't work for us. We might not ever be able to bring in the type of class guys Duke, UNC, UCONN etc bring in. We certainly shouldn't expect it now. Maybe after we have a nice arena and we bring in 19,000+ fans per game. By the way we pay our coach like we are some podunk school in the middle of nowhere. Try and give him some respect for working hard for peanuts. I'm sure you do everything in your power to support USF basketball. Season tickets, donations, fan gear, etc. I appreciate that. One day hopefully we'll be able to say we were there when everyone gave up on USF basketball. Remember the old days with Seth's big time recruits. Read on http://www.stpetersburgtimes.com/News/110801/Sports/Brittian_third_USF_pl.shtml

Turkey, All I wanted was some proof. Maybe an old article stating this as fact. Not a recollection. No doubt Baker and Waldon. Baxter I would disagree. Maybe Jackson and Brown. Look how long Brown lasted. Seth was known for recruiting primaddonna head cases. Borderline qualifiers that might pan out. I bet most of these guys wouldn't have come here except for the fact it was close to home and their grades were suspect and Greenie was the only one willing to take a risk. Maybe CRM is looking for team players. Not me first type of guys. Look how all the "good" recruiting Seth did worked out for us. 2 of his best, Jackson and BB, played together for years and did nothing for this program. It's probably an insult to group Seth's top 100 with those other guys you consider top recruits. Diarra was rated the #26 center by Rivals. Look how well that has panned out. No offense but the guy stinks. S Jones is better and he wasn't rated. Ratings don't mean everything. Guess how many Rivals rated recruits BC has had in the last 3 years? 1 same as us. Hasn't hurt them any. Would I like to get these guys? Absolutely. Realistically though no matter who our coach is odds are we aren't going to.

Harvey, Why don't you come up with the extra $750k to bring Calipari in? I'm sure he would bring his thugs with him to the NBE. Instead of always criticizing the current regime, why don't you come up with some solutions. You don't want to give CRM the chance to rebuild a program from the ground up then what do you suppose we do? Greenie couldn't do anything for us in the CUSA and he left for a better paying ($170k more + incentives) job. He couldn't do the job here in a lesser conference and he got promoted!! The assistant from Florida wouldn't touch this job. Should we fire CRM and hire a nobody? Maybe a high school coach. What big name are you going to bring in to run this program and recruit for less pay than some assistants make. We barely pay as much as Cleveland State. Support who we have or go support someone else.

Kelvin Brown? Do a search on him see what it comes up with. Troubled, kicked off, sat for disciplinary reasons. Did you see who was in his class? Swift. If you had to choose which player would do more for the team based on recruiting rankings you would have said Brown. Now tell me who did more for USF basketball? Brown or Swift? I believe Bobby K won all three before Greenie ever won an NCAA game or beat a top 25 team with his multiple top 150 recruits.

Tell that to Bobby Knight. I believe he has won 3 Nat Champs his way. Sound basketbal, team before player. I believe if CJL were more disciplined, we would have won more games. We certainly wouldn't lead the NCAA's in penalties every year.

Any proof of this? Top 150 players in the country? Several others? I thought he was a good recruiter but that doesn't win you anything. BB was from Lakeland, Altron from Sarasota, Leather from St Pete. Could this have factored in their decisions?

dabull, I'm sure the players appreciate the fact that you make that drive to come see them as much as I appreciate it as a fan. Sometimes it can be downright difficult watching them play.  Penders is an excellent coach. He coached at Texas so I think he has connections in the area. Mac moved from a different geographical area. I believe we tried to get the assistant from Florida but he wanted no part of this job. If you look at Houston's roster, most of the contributing players are Juniors with a senior leading scorer and a soph. I'm not sure he gutted the program like CRM did. I imagine that if we had B-MO around we might be about at their level.  He has 3 recruits and only the soph 2nd leading scorer contributes. The BE will be a huge challenge and probably will be a rocky road for sometime. Anyone believing we can find a coach to come in and compete (recruiting wise or record wise) in the BE right away is somewhat delusional. Especially when we are hiring on the cheap. We are the only team in the NBE to have never been in the Final Four!! We only make the tourney every other decade. How do you sell that to recruits? I think the only way we will build a competetive team is to do it with role players and maybe a superstar every once in awhile and most importantly solid fundumental coaching. We will never win anything on talent alone. Markey Mark, Syracuse holds over 30,000 screaming fans for basketball games. They have been to many final fours and have won a Nat Champ. That's an easy sell to recruits. Most of their players come from the NE. Heck if you asked any top 100 recruit where they would rather play Syracuse or USF what do you think their answer would be? We can't expect the same. Not now. CRM is rebuilding the program from the ground up. I expect it to only get better. Until he shows that he has hit his limits(i.e. Greenie not being able to get over the hump and get us into NIT or NCAA in years) then I think we need to give him a chance. I like his philosophy and coaching style. I'm sure CRM is doing everything he can to improve this program.

Markey Mark, You honestly believe that CRM should be able to recruit the top class in the BE??? Do you believe it is possible for any coach to do that at USF??? Put Calhoun or Boheim in this same situation and I would bet anything they wouldn't be able to recruit even a class in the top half of the BE. I want some of what you're smoking!! We are lucky to be smack dab in the middle of the hotbed for college football recruiting. Location is everything as far as football is concerned. Let's see Leavitt recruit the same top class in Syracuse. It has nothing to do with his ability to recruit and everything to do with location. Florida is a football mecca. The facilities alone give Leavitt a huge advantage over CRM!! All CJL has to say is come play for me in one of the nicest NFL stadiums in the country. CRM promises them that we will replace the bulbs in the scoreboards some time soon and not to worry about the 900 fans. They don't make much noise anyway.

Turkey, I doubt many if any of those names listed were considered a top 100 recruit in the country. Did you see where the bottom of the top 150 go? They go to places like Wake Forest, Alabama, and Gonzaga not USF. Besides top recruits don't always make for good team players. Just ask Billy D up in G-ville about that. Half of those guys chose USF because of the closeness to home. What is wrong with CRM trying to build a "team"? It seems to work well in the NFL for the Pats. No real superstars just pieces of a puzzle that work well together. We never saw that with Seth's teams. CRM is a much better floor coach in my opinion. I am pretty excited about seeing CD progress. He looks like he could be real good with a little confidence. Teams are built with role players not superstars. Jimmy B is a good guy. Never blamed him for leaving to concentrate on Track when he knew team would be rebuilding. Suprised he didn't do it before the season started.

Beastie, I wouldn't expect much more than that when rebuilding a program from the ground up. Look at Providence. They were supposed to compete for the BE crown and they only have 1 win in conference. They should be disappointed. This was the year they were building towards. I don't think CRM is looking for instant results but I know we would have more wins if our 2nd leading scorer from a year ago was playing. Did you see the STL game? They looked like the walking dead. Half of them probably should have been in the infirmary. It happens. Get over it. It was an exception not the rule.

We'll probably never get a game with ND. Who cares. If FSU, UF, or Miami want to play in Tampa then they should have to play the Bulls. That is our home stadium. If they want to treat their local Alums to a game then play USF. I think we would have no problem selling those out. If they want to treat it as a neutral site game and split tickets and revenue so be it. Do whatever it takes to get them here.

beastie, I'd be willing to bet the Sundome ranks near the bottom when comparing BE facilities. How about our attendance? Even in Greenie's heyday it probably doesn't measure up with the bottom of the BE numbers. How many top 150 recruits did Greenburg bring in while he was here? And more importantly what did he do with them? The bottom 5 of the top 150 according to rivals are headed to UCLA, Rutgers, Wake Forest, Gonzaga, and Alabama. Do you honestly believe that CRM should be able to recruit against these basketball rich schools? Greenburg left. Some of you need to get over it. He makes $170k + incentives more than CRM. Break out your checkbook and bring your savior back. I think he gave us everything he had. Horrible floor coach- decent recruiter.  We brought in one of the top coaches from a lesser conference and are paying him peanuts to do the impossible. He is much better at getting the talent out of team players.I think he will be able to build a "team" with time. Look at how many probowlers there are on the NE Pats. Not a lot of superstars there but they have a great coaching philosophy that preaches team first. It took Belichick some time but he built a winner. I bet the Browns wish they still had him as a head coach. Maybe some of you should be more realistic with your expectations. http://rivalshoops.rivals.com/viewrank.asp?SID=910&Year=2005&ra_key=768 http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/college/news/2003/05/30/bkb_coaching_salaries/

Turkey, Now that you have uncovered our problem (CRM's recruiting) how do you suppose we fix it? Do you honestly think it is easy to recruit to USF? "Hey kid, I know you are a top 100 b-baller why not come play for me in a decrepit arena, in front of 900 silent fans, and get your head handed to you by the top teams in the BE." Yeah I could see kids jumping at the chance!! The man isn't even paid as much as some assistants in the league!! I think the guy took a no win job. Odds are he will never be able to compete in the BE even though all the fans are delusional and think he should be bringing in McDonald's All Americans. Why do you think the assistant from Florida didn't want to touch this job? Who do you think we could bring in that would want to be paid lower than half of all D-1 coaches, try to recruit against the top conference in all of basketball, and have his team play in a decrepit arena in front of 900 pissed off fans against some of the top teams in the country? Not many. I for one am willing to give the guy a chance. After all basketball is a team sport and it takes time to build a "team". How many top high school players would even consider USF regardless of who our coach is?

Gary SJ, I don't understand. The Gator Bowl goes to the BE #2 or ND?? Their football program is not in now so what difference would that make to the Gator Bowl if their basketball, baseball, olympic sports left the BE? None. The GB is BE vs ACC. Notre Dame has been to 2 GB since 1976. I say let them join 1/2 for football or take your other sports to the ASUN or CUSA. They don't have to play us. Let them play the same 3 teams every year + 1. Pitt, Syracuse, WVU plus one rotating team. Use the one rotating team as their neutral site game. Concessions could be made. Notre Dame is living in the past. They are no longer head and shoulders above everyone else. Kids grow up wanting to go to Miami, OU, USC, FSU, etc before they even think about ND.