puc86

There is nothing that can be done at this point and since he got a 5 year contract I would say there won’t be much of anything that could will be done until after year four. My only point is that last year was awful and that there is no way to spin that it was inevitable. It was going to be fairly bad no matter who was the coach but that it was so exceptionally bad is directly attributable to CJS. He needs to own his failures and do better, something he has already directly spoken to and we would have been better served having selected someone that already knew what it would take to be successful here instead of trying to pretend we were ruining our results to build abstract ideas like culture. The only culture that matters is a winning culture and the only way to build that is by actually trying to and being successful at winning.

Before I respond, again, is there any other people that need to be arbitrarily excluded besides CJL and CWT? Or will I only find out I can’t pick them after I give more examples? If it can only be inexperienced head coaches with no Florida connections then perhaps CJS is as good of a bad pick as any so I just want to be clear about the rules. Also now I have the added advantage of hindsight so I can’t be certain that I will not be influenced to pick from the 20 something coaches that did better in their first year than CJS with knowledge that I probably wouldn’t have had then.

Too bad you will never get to see it...

Congratulations you must be very proud, I do not work with any UCF anyone but I fail to see how that changes the things their President and AD said about why they decided to move when they did.

Didn’t you get the memo? Covid is exclusively a USF problem which is peculiar since the thousands of people that visited the super bowl here packed into crowded spaces and used masks sporadically resulted in a whopping 50 cases. Thank G-d we didn’t have an OCS or we probably wouldn’t have gotten to play a single game.

If it were that obvious we wouldn’t be discussing the tremendous effort put into managing to go defeated

They say they had no plans to move and were motivated by not having a place to play and being told they were valued at zero dollars, it maybe petty but they state that it was their motivation and they had no other option. I see no reason they would lie about this since now they trumpet it as a great plan they had to differentiate themselves.

It is their perception that they were and what motivates the customer is ultimately the only truth that matters as they make the decision on where to spend their dollars, they built the stadium because they perceived that they had to and whether that was reasonable or not doesn’t really matter.

I will be perfectly happy when I can see a tangible positive path forward and people do not try to make up nuances to football which historically is easily measured in wins and losses. CJS managed to lose every single FBS game and that’s not even as good as several FCS level programs, there is no nuanced way to look at that level of failure. It sucks and he needs to do better as measured in wins and losses.

I absolutely think that many coaches could have won those other two games and I do not accept that because we got blown out means that no one else could have been competitive. I think CJS started behind the 8 ball by deciding to delay his transition, I also believe that his hires were lazy convenient choices that should have expected scrutiny following their failures and he made very basic rookie mistakes that would not be expected by anyone that has successfully lead before (ones that he acknowledged and is saying he is trying to correct going forward). Given that we had less games last season we could have had a discussion about if 3 wins would have been enough to call this season at least a push but that we won a single one removes all doubt and clearly places year one as an unmitigated failure that CJS did more than just become a victim of circumstance for, he actively contributed to and even created failure.

As long as we are I will be happier by how much is another question contingent entirely on the amount of games above it.

Sorry my bigger issue, obviously I have issue with everything. But if we expected to go defeated going into the year and people said by year 3 they expect to get 9 wins I would be less irritated. My bigger issue is that people had expectations in year one and are now pretending they did not and are now coming up with excuses for failure that seem like they have no expiration date. We can wait for year three for me to get really fired up but at that point we better not be explaining to me about how .500 is actually the best that could be expected and how everyone knows you can’t have any expectations until year 10 typically and with Covid it clearly going to set you back another decade.

I was wondering why no other coach thought about if they could just improve the oline things would simply fall into place.

I had the typical 4 year experience which is why I know that by year three I was pretty well set on my graduation trajectory and the gpa I would finish with.

My issue isn’t so much year one (although I obviously didn’t like it) it’s that people then extrapolate that to being .500 at year three and when that takes you to an abysmal place just isn’t good enough. If we want to use silly terms like year zero, Covid year, and evaluation year I am fine with that as long as it doesn’t lead to that we can expect three full years of failure because by that point your culture is set, your team is mostly yours and you have upperclassman that you have brought on.

I am perfectly fine with you finding optimism in 4-8 I am not sure why it bothers you that it’s a nonstarter for optimism for me.

That it would be difficult is why it would get praise as would 5 wins, 3-4 would be holding serve and getting 1 is failure. Do you honestly believe that it was not possible for anyone to have won 3 games last season?

There is no such thing as an optimistic 4-8 in my eyes before optimism can be attempted to be garnered you have to at least crack .500.

We disagree on the premise for me you are measured initially by who you replaced as if he had 6 wins last season we would have all praises his improvement and not dismissed it as simply the starting point that CCS created for him.

Unique doesn’t necessarily mean worse, I am sure they could be put into buckets and while unique I am pretty sure our bucket would be much closer to the middle than all alone at the bottom.

The examples are never ending. The only reason to think we were more impacted is to only look at us in a vacuum and ignore every other program and their situations.

Because there were programs that got entirely shut down for weeks at a time and the news was filled with it and high profile players being sidelined. Trevor Lawerence is perhaps the most impactful player in college football, Clemson lost him and still managed to make the championship game. No one got to have a preseason and everyone had players in Covid protocol throughout the season, what makes you think that we faced it worse than the rest of the country?

Other people were able to overcome all of those things, CJS didn't. That they were able to and he wasn’t is because he failed and had he actually succeeded not a single person would have dismissed the success as being only because of the extenuating circumstances. The fair thing to do is to hold him accountable for his failings, which he acknowledges and is planning on improving going forward.

The thing you miss is that what is fair is to have expectations immediately and when people do not meet them it is often because of factors they actually control and not a laundry list of excuses that disappear when you actually have some form of success. CJS was expected to do better or marginally close to CCS in year 1 but he didn’t even come close to hitting that mark, if he does better we don’t have to worry about arguing about nuances because it will actually be tangible.