BULLheaded

have to agree with Brad and Bien, you are going back and forth between two issues. Are you debating the original point of why we would root for other be teams and what benefit there is to them doing well or Are you debating the necessity of having a strong ooc schedule? Point one has been beaten to death and I haven't seen any logical reason from you on what benefit there is to us to hope the other teams do poorly. for the second point, I personally agree that the ooc schedules should be stronger BUT to say that teams in the BE are playing easier schedules then other leagues is just wrong....they are ALL terrible.

Your right, and that is the direct result of teams stepping it up in the conference. If WVU, UL and Rutgers had all been average (at best) then losing the BCS mantra would not have been limited to last year. So it was a benefit to all of us in the BE for those teams to play well. Now of course we have progressed from not being worthy (as a conference) of the BCS to not being worthy of a national title shot no matter how well we do so that is the next barrier we have to break through. It benefits all the BE teams if the conference as a whole can consistently do well enough to continue to change the perception of the league as weak.

I've often wondered about the personifying myth that the SEC produces the best football.  Says who?  I was told that the SEC earns more dollars then any other conference in football, and they have a strong PR contract they maintain to keep the myths alive and well about their programs. Look at the myths out there, hey Louisville's beating of Miami is rather impressive a 31-7 beat down at home.  Their other losses were nailbiters to Gtech, and FSU.  UL beat UK 59-21, UK is now 4-4 and only LSU beat them as handily.  UL beat KSU and now KSU is 5-4 and looking more and more like a bowl team.  If UF struggles mightily against UK, and UL blows them away then who's the person personifying the myth that UL couldn't be on the same field as UF? Honestly, as it stands, and I watch a lot of college football (sat in the sports book at Atlantis this weekend on Saturday from 11AM until 7:30PM- wife wasn't happy) and there isn't a team out there I think UL and WVU couldn't run with and beat.   The two best other undefeated teams are OSU, and Michigan, and I watched Michigan struggle like crazy against NW!  I watched Indiana absolutely dismantle Michigan State, and Iowa in consecutive games they were beaten by Uconn. WVU absolutely destroyed Maryland.  i mean a supreme arse kicking, Maryland is sitting 6-2 right now and looking more formidable each week.  I know this week Notre Dame wants Rutger's secrets about containing the Navy option.... You can go on, and on, and on but as I see it today WVU, and UL deserve to be in the top 5.  For now, we'll see where it ends up, but as of today they deserve to be there. I always get a kick out of people talking about how one loss teams deserve to be ahead of WVU, and they say why is because of WVU's weak schedule.  Yet the next sentence you'll see that Auburn got knocked out of the top 10 by an unranked team, USC got knocked out of the top 10 by an unranked team.  mentioning wv is a laugher.you need to look up something called strength of schedule. one loss teams from pac 10,sec,big ten and texas deserve to be in NC over undefeated big east team WHY?  because those teams played a much harder schedule.texas played osu! wv played eastern washinton again all one needs to do is to look at strength of schedule. wv hasnt played a ranked team yet! wv/ul fans will be disappointed at end of season again. you want national respect you need to play a top 15 schedule usc already arkansas on road and destroyed them and beat a ranked nebraska team.when WV schedules like that they to will get  national respect Here are what I see as the weak ooc teams the top 10 teams play this year: ohio state plays northern illinois michigan plays central michigan, ball state and vandy wvu plays marshall, ecu and eastern washington texas plays north texas, sam houston state and rice louisville plays temple and middle tennessee state auburn plays buffalo, tulane and arkansas state florida plays UCF and western carolina tennessee plays air force, marshall and memphis usc...I'll give you this one, I don't see any cal plays portland state Seems to me that overall everyone has some pretty crappy ooc opponents and while usc does not that is an exception NOT the norm. So, I'm not quite sure where you are getting this logic on strength of ooc schedules and the eastern washington on the wvu schedule is just par for the course compared to the other top 10 ranked teams. The only thing that really sets the teams apart is the strength of conference play and that takes us back to the benefits of playing in a conference that is percieved as being strong. Now, here is a question for you smazza. Others have mentioned the very real threat of the BE possibly losing it's automatic bcs bid due to the lack of quality teams. I ask you how it would benefit us if the BE teams all did poorly and the BCS tag get's ripped away from the BE and we end up as a mid major again. uhhh, they lost and it was the only quality ooc team they played so where does that put them?

I've often wondered about the personifying myth that the SEC produces the best football.  Says who?  I was told that the SEC earns more dollars then any other conference in football, and they have a strong PR contract they maintain to keep the myths alive and well about their programs. Look at the myths out there, hey Louisville's beating of Miami is rather impressive a 31-7 beat down at home.  Their other losses were nailbiters to Gtech, and FSU.  UL beat UK 59-21, UK is now 4-4 and only LSU beat them as handily.  UL beat KSU and now KSU is 5-4 and looking more and more like a bowl team.  If UF struggles mightily against UK, and UL blows them away then who's the person personifying the myth that UL couldn't be on the same field as UF? Honestly, as it stands, and I watch a lot of college football (sat in the sports book at Atlantis this weekend on Saturday from 11AM until 7:30PM- wife wasn't happy) and there isn't a team out there I think UL and WVU couldn't run with and beat.   The two best other undefeated teams are OSU, and Michigan, and I watched Michigan struggle like crazy against NW!  I watched Indiana absolutely dismantle Michigan State, and Iowa in consecutive games they were beaten by Uconn. WVU absolutely destroyed Maryland.  i mean a supreme arse kicking, Maryland is sitting 6-2 right now and looking more formidable each week.  I know this week Notre Dame wants Rutger's secrets about containing the Navy option.... You can go on, and on, and on but as I see it today WVU, and UL deserve to be in the top 5.  For now, we'll see where it ends up, but as of today they deserve to be there. I always get a kick out of people talking about how one loss teams deserve to be ahead of WVU, and they say why is because of WVU's weak schedule.  Yet the next sentence you'll see that Auburn got knocked out of the top 10 by an unranked team, USC got knocked out of the top 10 by an unranked team.  I agree completely, however back on topic, it still benefits all schools in a conference for that conference to do well against teams outside of the conference. About the SEC, I also agree that the perception is way out of whack compared to reality. It's my opinion that people just get caught up in the names and their past strenghts. Over the past 20 years it seems a large number of SEC teams have had periods of greatness, but the teams have seasawed from one to the other and never all great at the same time. So in essence the SEC is really benefiting from that inconsistency and over time just about all the names in the conference have an association with being great. The other conferences just happen to be more consistent with the same handfull of teams always at the top so the illusion is that there are fewer teams that are good...even though at one point in time there are about the same number of good vs bad teams in each conference. Cracks me up though, in the big 10 Iowa loses to indiana and all we hear about is how over rated Iowa and the Big 10 is. However, Georgia loses to Vandy and the talk is all about how even the lesser teams in the SEC are strong  : The BE on the other hand doesn't really have anyone aside from maybe Pitt that has been great at any period in their histories so it will be imperative for the BE to win a few NCs before we can start being viewed as anything close to the SEC to the majority of people in this country.

I've never met anyone who was a fan of any team in any conference that didn't root for their own conference mates to win games. Pretty much a given to root for (in order of preference) 1)your team then 2) your conference. And smazza every win your conference can pull out against non conference foes has the direct benefit of giving your team more respect when you play the teams within your conference. Just look at the respect the sec teams have and this is reflected in the polls. Now, certainly it would make no sense whatsoever to actually root for your own team to lose but that is a completely different issue that hoping that the rest of the conference does well in all other games. btw, if usc fans root against pac10 teams then they certainly shouldn't ***** if the pollsters rate them poorly due to perceived conference weakness. I've heard for years ******** about an "east coast bias" when it came to the polls, ever wonder why that was?

Awsome! will they be in soon enough to pick one (or a few) up before the game on saturday?

As far as the dumping on USF and positive vs "realistic" IMO there are the "always positive no matter what" crowd and the "always negative no matter what crowd" and frankly neither one brings much to the table as far as meaningful conversation goes. I mean if I really am curious about the state of the team how much more do I get out of the person who keeps saying we'll go undefeated and thinks every player is a heisman candidate then I do from the person who thinks we will lose every game and all players wouldn't succeed in pee wee football? I do believe that there is a "realistic" group that not only has the ability to recognize and discuss the great things our team has done BUT can also recognize and discuss the weaknesses (or plain old crappy) aspects of the team. Also, you won't get the always positive group calling themselves realistic since 1) they know they aren't realistic and 2) they don't have to make comments to defend themselves from the always positive group who claim anyone making a negative comment isn't a "true" fan. I think it's pretty easy after reading the board for even a short period of time who falls into which camp so for me I just tune out both extremes and try to get the most out of those I believe fall into the realistic and knowledgable group. Of course I have to admit to a guilty pleasure of reading the bickering that always takes place between the two extreme groups that would rather jump off a cliff than admit someone from the other camp may have a point ;D

LOVE those commercials! Never even realized they had a similar logo....al the more reason to like it

Why?

gurlybull, I posted this a few weeks ago to see if anyone has seen this visor http://www.thebullspen.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/nph-YaBB.pl?num=1160419437/0#0 I can't seem to find it at any shop or online retailer, any chance you sell it there?

They get fined in the NFL but I don't believe it's an issue in college. Never did understand it anyway, if the refs suck then they should be accountable.

Dropping balls has been a problem over the years however anyone who has watched this year can see that this is one of the most improved areas on the team. Our recievers have been playing great this year and the drops have been very minimal. I will say though that I am in the camp that believes execution IS coached. Good coaching does lead to solid execution and when there is a consistent lack of it on the field I do believe that it's the coaches fault. This has been my main problem with our offensive coaches for years. Things seem to be better this year but we really won't get a true feel until after we get through the better competition coming up.

Exactly, I find it hard to say that what he has done for this program up to know would not be considered miraculous. Has any other school in the history of college football ever progressed so far so fast? Guys, guys..........I don't think we're actually disagreeing here.  I said up front that the way he has built this program has been remarkable ("miraculous" being a stretch since I usually reserve that term for things that defy nature, e.g. walking on water, raising the dead, etc.).  It is amazing how fast we have come to where we are, and Coach Leavitt has been a key part of that. All I'm saying is that now that he's among the "Big Boys" in the Big East (Rodriguez, Petrino, Schiano, and the like), we'll see some deficiencies in his coaching and certainly his choice of certain assistant coaches more than we did in C-USA.  We've hit a big time plateau, and we may very well be there for a while. Your right, I think we are agreeing for the most part. My point was that given what Leavitt has done with this program I think miraculous is a perfect description and it isn't any surprise that fans of FSU would describe his success that way. Going forward, well I think we'll just have to see. It's my personal opinion that the only thing that could hold him back is his extreme loyalty to the assistant coaches but again that is just my opinion. Also, your right that we're among the big boys however he has only been recruiting with "big boy" clout for a couple of seasons and that is hardly time to build a solid foundation in talent and depth. Heck, 10 years (and practically no budget) is hardly time to build a solid program at all much less one that can compete at this level. So for me I think he definitely has what it takes to get us there, but again it's my opinion that only his unwillingness to upgrade those around him could hold him back.

This was mentioned in another thread but I have to say it again. This comment makes absolutely ZERO sense, what you are actually saying is that on 4th and 1 the lack of faith in the kicking game led to a 1st down....so, what's the problem? That decision was a success, I'll repeat THAT DECISION WAS A SUCCESS. Now, it sucks that the interception was thrown later after we SUCCESSFULLY got our first down but that is not a reflection whatsoever on the decision not to kick. Would you or would you not prefer to have a first down with 3 more attempts at a TD before having to decide on the field goal? If not then do we decide to kick every single time we are in range to get an assured 3 points no matter what down it is? Sorry but this logic just does not make sense....now if we had turned the ball over on downs with a failed attempt at the 1st down THEN this comment would hold some water but c'mon let's not be rediculous here.

how can you fire smith and not leavittum, let's see (try to follow me here if you can) first: tell Smith he is fired second: that's it, your done If that was a bit too complex let me know and I'll try to simplify it for you

ok, I'll admit I laughed pretty hard as this went on......and please I don't WANT to know what is in your right hand!

Exactly, I find it hard to say that what he has done for this program up to know would not be considered miraculous. Has any other school in the history of college football ever progressed so far so fast?

I dont know what your goals and expectations are, but mine dont include "bowl eligible" every year. Mine include conference and national championships some day. If you're satisfied with mediocre, thats up to you. The SCHOOL and COACHES keep ringing our ears with BCS this and BCS that. Its time for the FANS to start raising their expectations and hold those same coaches and school leaders to that same standard that they claim to set for themselves. I agree that those are the goals we should have ultimately as a program however it does have to be tempered with a little reality check. You didn't really expect that this team would be making a national championship push at this stage did you? I mean c'mon we've been recruiting as a BCS team for what? 2 seasons? We have a loooooooooooooooooooooooooong way to go before we should be expecting a national championship calibur team. As far as BE championship, much more realistic but still I think a few years away from that. For me the goal is to see that we are at least moving in the direction to make those goals a reality and for the most part I think we've done so this year. Unfortunatley I'm not sold that we have the staff we need around Leavitt in order to make the big leap to an elite BE or national team and the jury is still out on Leavitt that he will be able to make the tough decision to correct that if necessary.

: Please.  If you're talking about the "program building" aspect of Leavitt's resume, then I agree.  But if we're talking about his in-game decision making, game week preparation, and choices of assistants, then that's just laughable. He's a decent coach, but so far from miraculous it's not even funny. If someone wants to build a program from scratch, he's the man to hire.  But I'm doubting more and more every week that he has the ability to get us over the proverbial "hump" in the Big East.  Get used to our "miracle" coach producing mediocre records for a while. Your entitled to your opinion however if it wasn't for his abilities as a coach we wouldn't even be having this conversation now would we?

Actually this comment is very misleading, we could have kicked the FG but instead we went for the 1st down and MADE IT. If your implying that we would be better off with the FG over a 1st and goal then should we kick every single time we get into range no matter what the down is to be certain we get 3 instead of a screwup? Hey, the pic pissed me off as much as anyone but I'll take the 1st and goal over the 3 ANY DAY.

What Leavitt has done so far has in fact been nothing short of miraculous. Now, if they want to take our miracle offensive cordinator.......

The spread works if your coaches are masters at this style of play. We have a young apprentice with practically no experience whatsoever in charge of ours. Meyer has moved from team to team to team and sure enought when he arrives the teams execute, play above their heads and win, when he leaves the teams fall right back to mediocrity. Is it the system or is it the coach? I'll put my money on the latter.

I do think the loss of Kravits at def cordinator hurt our D, the tackling has been horrid this year and I just don't see quite the aggressiveness that I have in the past. Interestingly enough though I thought they played better last night then they have all season. I hated the Smith promotion and I'm trying very hard to contain myself and not call for his head. I do think he has done a marginally better job this year but is it attributable to improved job performance or just having better talent? Personally I'm going to try and reserve judgement on that until after I see him play the better teams in the league. After all it doesn't take a great or even good coach to win games against lesser opponents as we have done so far and we just laid an egg against a team that I felt was along the same talent level (maybe a bit lower) then us. A great coach however is able to get athletes to consistently play above their heads and now that he doesn't have PJ to blame for every bad game we'll find out exactly what type of coach he is after the final two games of the season.

I'm on the home side about 40 yard line and they sound great from there....of course they are facing the home side so it makes sense. I have to say that this year I don't know what has gotten into them but they sound (easily) twice as loud as they have in the past.

I heard them play it the last couple of games but I think only once. fight song......I really hope we'll eventually scrap the existing fight song and come up with something more "fight" ish. Right now it reminds me of carnival music. Updated logo, colors....now it's time for updated fight song! Love the bull though!