USFbulls24

Blinders? What in the world are you talking about? When did I say because Pitt and Syracuse got to another conference USF should? I actually said in a previous post in this thread "Although I understand why other conferences wouldn't want us given what has happened over the last few years".

You make good points. Once again.. not saying he should be fired right this second or tomorrow.. I just think it's interesting to see people stick up and defend him given the fact that his hiring, Skip Holtz, ruined our program lol.

Just because we didn't hear about efforts to get out, or actually get out, doesn't mean that Woolard and Judy didn't try. That is true. But because I did hear about other schools it just makes me think they didn't. Can't really blame my logic.

9.8

Since you're so smart you must have put $$ on McNeese State to win when the odds were like +5000 and then took FAU to win straight up too and won some serious money.... Knew what to expect? You're lying to yourself if you thought we wouldn't have 1 win after our first 4 games including two games against McNeese State and FAU.

You know we're currently in the 40s-50s (depending on the service) for recruiting rankings, right? Just about where we've been for the past decade. We still have no QB (like everyone gives Holtz **** for, have already had 2 separate QBs decommit). We have one RB who may or may not even make it academically. CWT's rankings the three years before coming to USF: 2012 - 75, 2011 - 90, 2010 - 89. And when you get ready to give me the line about how he was recruiting at WKU, remember he was outrecruited by Southern MIss, Wyoming, and Akron during those years. He may eventually become an incredible recruiter, but he isn't one yet. Maybe you're unaware of what is unfolding in front of our eyes? USF is a bottom 10 program in the entire country at this point and he has kids like Jimmy Bayes committed to us over programs like NC State, Georgia Tech, Missouri, Rutgers, Wisconsin, and West Virginia. I highly doubt he is choosing us because he likes the state of our program better than those right now or do you think its all the amazing history and tradition of our football program? Not to mention Bronson who has offers from Arkansas, FSU, Miami, Mississippi State, etc. and Jarvis Stewart. Look at our recruiting class right now vs. UCF's.. UCF coming off a 10 win season and 3-1 this year and ours is still better. You think that's by accident? As far as i'm concerned anything above 100 at Western Kentucky as a recruiting class isn't bad. His last year there was 75 and you're not impressed by that? Doesn't that mean that 48 schools had worse recruiting classes? There is no way there are 48 schools that were less appealing. It means he is a good recruiter. Being ranked in the 40's - 50's considering what has transpired with our football program over the last 3 years is awesome to me. He has kids taking visits to our school that wouldn't of even answered a text message from Skip Holtz. The only thing that can be questioned for me is his actual coaching. He is showing that he can recruit. What do you expect him to do? Take the classes in high school for the RB? lol. That's a weak argument. He can't control 18 year old's minds either. He will get a QB whether its this year or next year. Regardless, I think our recruiting classes will improve with Taggart and it's going to be a rough 3-4 years for bulls fans.. :/

LOL that is not the point!!!!!!! The point is the New York Jets thought he was a good enough candidate to take him early in the 1st round. They were wrong, and their team is paying for that mistake now. Doug Woolard thought Skip Holtz was a very good candidate. He was wrong and our team is paying for that now. AGAIN I am not comparing the situations and I know it is different, I am simply saying just because Doug Woolard or a NFL GM hires/drafts a "good candidate" doesn't mean everything is good and they did the right thing. Would you rather me use Jamarcus Russell with the Raiders? Ryan Leaf with the Chargers? Tim Couch with the Browns? Pick which ever you want. Difference being that the GM and Rex liked Sanchez. And after years, both are still employed. And Woolard relied on a professional search firm to find qualified candidates. And if I recall, LRS was on that jet to get Holtz. Doubt he would do that if he wasn't behind it either. Maybe you would be better served by suggesting USF sued that firm. You don't fire people for hiring qualified people. You fire the qualified employee when they don't meet performance expectations. No one in America in management would be employed if they were fired for hiring employees that didn't work out. I have never said that "Doug Woolard should be fired and fired right now". I certainly wouldn't be against it and I don't see how anyone could be though. A point I am making is at some point if he is the guy who hired Holtz the responsibility and accountability falls on him for that hire not working out. The main point I was trying to make was someone said "All he has done is hire great candidates for our head coaches". So that makes everything okay? Well at the time they were "great candidates"? Seriously? Just because a guy makes a hire who is a "good candidate" doesn't mean you wash everything else under the rug and forget what has actually happened. You really are having trouble understanding what drafting Mark Sanchez did to the Jets? Do you not remember the Jets were in the AFC championship game I believe 2 years in a row because their defense was so good? Can you imagine if they actually drafted a "good candidate" that actually ended up being good? Mike Tannebaum is not still employed and Rex Ryan is on his way out after this season. They drafted someone who they thought was going to be good and it didn't work out. Doug Woolard hired someone he thought was going to be good. It didn't work out. I understand there are extreme differences in the situations but its the principle of responsibility/accountability. He used a professional firm? Link? Never heard anything about that and on top of that since you're just defending every move this guy makes what do you hold him accountable for? Is his job description "hiring "good candidates" and firing coaches that "do something illegal, allow infractions to happen with their teams, and abuse players"? So in order for Doug Woolard to be successful to you as long as he is "hiring good candidates that is agreed with by "college sports experts" and firing coaches that "do the wrong thing" he's A+? For making $500,000 a year if you're his critic sound like he's got the best job in America.

I think this is a great/legit question... Just read this article today.. http://tbo.com/sports/colleges/usf-bulls/for-usf-georgia-becoming-strategic-target-20131001/ "Durden, who attended Valdosta Lowndes County High, where the stadium is a familiar landmark along Interstate 75, liked the proximity and the chance to establish his own identity. He first heard about USF in 2009, when the B.J. Daniels-led Bulls upset the Florida State Seminoles in Tallahassee. “It looked like a program that was going places,'' Durden said. “I thought I could fit in.'' "Lattimore, who counts former Georgia defensive lineman David Pollock as his all-time favorite player and witnessed a dozen or so games “between the hedges,'' knew he wanted to leave Athens and probably play out of state. USF had plenty of appeal. “I knew that they had beaten some big-time teams and I know about palm trees and beaches,'' Lattimore said. “It was a different world from the one I was used to.'' They both mentioned us beating good programs or having big time wins as a main reason they came here. Obviously those wins will always be there but they are further and further from our minds as well as recruits now. Kids that are being recruited now were 13/14 years old in 2009 when we beat FSU and 11/12 when we had our run in 2007. Chances are they didn't even know who USF was at that age let alone remember the wins. What they do see is now we're losing to McNeese State, FAU, Ball State, Temple, and possibly Memphis this season as well. This will make a negative impact on our program when it comes to recruiting. Taggart is an incredible recruiter though so it won't be felt so badly because he'll still put together a class better than Holtz ever did which is very impressive.

I didn't read through the thread and may be late to the party but does anyone know of the actual QB recruits that are interested in USF not just the other way around?

And either were you so we both have the same chance of being correct and my opinion is that I don't think Woolard did anything to try and help our conference situation. You are correct that you both have the same chance of being correct. However, to hold your opinion means Woolard cares nothing about trying to put an athletic department that he is responsible for on a more steady foundation in a better conference, and that he doesn't want USF to earn more revenue, thereby eventually increasing the money he would eventually make. So yeah, if you believe all that, then your opinion makes sense. I never said that I think Woolard doesn't want his athletic department to be on a "more steady foundation in a better conference, and that he doesn't want USF to earn more revenue, thereby eventually increasing the money he would eventually make". Obviously I know he wants to do this... but that doesn't mean he did anything! Just because someone wants a new job and to make more money doesn't mean they do everything in there power to get one. If life were as simple as if someone wants something it happens or they go and do it things would be a lot different lol.

I know you've been asked this before, or one of you has, but how do you know we didn't do a thing? You didn't hear anything did you? You heard reports of almost every other program in the Big East trying to get out except USF. Wouldn't that make you think that we didn't do anything..? No.. you didn't hear reports of Cuse or Pitt trying to leave the BEast.. just as I mentioned before, again, conveniently ignored. As you stated.. you weren't there.. You have absolutely no idea that Woolard didn't do anything And either were you so we both have the same chance of being correct and my opinion is that I don't think Woolard did anything to try and help our conference situation. Re-read this thread please... I have stated that we don't know what was done. Whether or not he did anything. YOU are the one accusing him as if it was fact.. Look at the green highlighted portion of the quote above. YOU are the one accusing him of not doing a thing... yet without any knowledge, proof, information about it. Sorry... Didn't know you were a lawyer and dissect every word. I do not know for a fact ANYTHING about how anything went down as far as conference re-alignment and how or if Doug Woolard and USF tried to get involved. In my opinion, the way it played out, and hearing about other schools trying to leave, I do not think that Doug Woolard or USF did anything to try and get out of the mess that is now the AAC. Could I be wrong? Absolutely. But in my mind seeing that there were reports about some other schools in the Big East trying everything they could to leave as well as obviously other schools leaving officially makes me think very strongly that we didn't do anything. Again let me say I could easily be wrong, but you can't say I can't easily be right either..

I know you've been asked this before, or one of you has, but how do you know we didn't do a thing? You didn't hear anything did you? You heard reports of almost every other program in the Big East trying to get out except USF. Wouldn't that make you think that we didn't do anything..? No.. you didn't hear reports of Cuse or Pitt trying to leave the BEast.. just as I mentioned before, again, conveniently ignored. As you stated.. you weren't there.. You have absolutely no idea that Woolard didn't do anything Did Cuse or Pitt end up leaving the Big East? Yes, they did. Obviously they were trying to get out. You did hear reports of other schools in the Big East - Uconn, Cincy, etc trying to get out. These teams you're mentioning you didn't hear anything prior to them leaving. But the important part for their schools is they did do something and they did leave. Not only did USF not leave, there wasn't even a report or anything about USF even thinking about it.

I know you've been asked this before, or one of you has, but how do you know we didn't do a thing? You didn't hear anything did you? You heard reports of almost every other program in the Big East trying to get out except USF. Wouldn't that make you think that we didn't do anything..? No.. you didn't hear reports of Cuse or Pitt trying to leave the BEast.. just as I mentioned before, again, conveniently ignored. As you stated.. you weren't there.. You have absolutely no idea that Woolard didn't do anything And either were you so we both have the same chance of being correct and my opinion is that I don't think Woolard did anything to try and help our conference situation.

I know you've been asked this before, or one of you has, but how do you know we didn't do a thing? You didn't hear anything did you? You heard reports of almost every other program in the Big East trying to get out except USF. Wouldn't that make you think that we didn't do anything..?

LOL that is not the point!!!!!!! The point is the New York Jets thought he was a good enough candidate to take him early in the 1st round. They were wrong, and their team is paying for that mistake now. Doug Woolard thought Skip Holtz was a very good candidate. He was wrong and our team is paying for that now. AGAIN I am not comparing the situations and I know it is different, I am simply saying just because Doug Woolard or a NFL GM hires/drafts a "good candidate" doesn't mean everything is good and they did the right thing. Would you rather me use Jamarcus Russell with the Raiders? Ryan Leaf with the Chargers? Tim Couch with the Browns? Pick which ever you want.

it was the $2.5M extension that shouldcost him his job. If the department becomes financially drained, agreed. That decision didn't effect his decision to can Holtz when he needed to though Lets not give credit to Doug Woolard for firing Skip Holtz. I'm pretty sure our biggest booster the CEO of Teco had just about everything to do with that. When he comes out and is publicly stating that things need to change you don't think that Doug Woolard says oh crap I have to do something to save my job and save my face? You think if a booster who donates crazy money tells Woolard to jump he's not going to respond how high? Ha.. Already been noted but that extension is the most foolish extension maybe in the history of college football. (I'm probably exaggerating but it's gotta be top 10). Because he made a bad hire in Skip Holtz, USF has fallen just as the Big East has. Is it Doug Woolard's fault the Big East went to hell? No, but maybe he could've done something? He sat back and watched USF get buried while our AQ conference fell apart and now we're stuck in a non AQ conference with conference USA 2.0 written all over it. I may be way off, but you didn't hear anything about USF trying to do something when all the re-alignment was happening. You would read about West Virginia, Rutgers, Pitt, etc trying everything they could to get out of the Big East but not a word that USF was (not that anyone wanted us due to the state of our program) but point is whoever it is at USF in charge of that didn't do a thing ( I would guess the AD definitely has a big voice when it comes to realignment). Also... you said hold him accountable in 2 years when you see how Willie is doing but you defend the hiring of Skip Holtz. Don't blame him for the hiring of Skip Holtz but we can blame him in 2 years for the hiring of Taggart if that doesn't work out? Alright.. This is an EXTREMELY DUMB argument that I keep hearing against Woolard. Are you or anyone who argues this privy to whats going behind the scenes? Were/Are you there??? One of the main reasons for your opinion is just as you stated, you didn't hear a peep from USF concerning expansion. Yet you conveniently forget of what unfolded in the demise of the BEast which is totally opposite of your stance.... The bolting of Cuse and Pitt was a huge surprise to everyone and the rest of the schools... Hell, the Commish didn't even know about it until AFTER it happened, in his suite during a BEast football game. Meanwhile, Cinn and UConn went on a rather embarrassing public begging tour which resulted in nothing. Yet... the current rumor mill has a USF/UCF combo deal as the hot ticket in future expansion. No I wasn't there. But it's painfully obvious that our Athletic Department and the person in charge of our athletic department...hmmm... who might that be.... maybe Doug Woolard or whoever would be on the "team" responsible for trying to get us out of this mess. But no one did. Maybe that's not Woolard's fault completely but you're absolutely downright fooling yourself if you think he has nothing to do with that kind of scenario. At least Cincy and UConn didn't just sit back and watch everything go to crap. They at least attempted to get into a better situation. What did we do? Not a thing, and you're good with that? I certainly am not. The current rumor mill has a USF/UCF combo deal? Where did you read that the Orlando Sentinel? You can already scratch out the ACC for that they already have 2 florida teams, we will never ever be in the SEC so you can scratch that. At this point USF isn't going anywhere conference wise for a long time. We're going to have to enjoy playing Tulane, Memphis, SMU, East Carolina year in and year out..

All the Jets did was draft Mark Sanchez who was a great QB candidate to succeed in the NFL... HE DIDN'T. All the Jaguars did was draft Blaine Gabbert because he was a great QB candidate to succeed in the NFL... HE HASN'T. Guess where the GM's of the guys that drafted them are? Not the GM of those teams anymore. Yes I understand the comparison doesn't go hand in hand with an Athletic Director but I am just saying you can't sit there and say over and over "well they were good hires at the time" or "Great candidates at the time". WHO CARES! If that is all that mattered then we would all be dancing in the streets. What matters is how it worked out. Holtz was an awful hire. If he did such a great job and was such an exceptional candidate why in the heck was he still at East Carolina by the time he had an opportunity to go to USF? The rest of the country/programs were just blind to what Holtz was? Whatever you have to tell yourself. It's OKAY to say hey you know what Woolard WAS WRONG. He made the wrong decision. Because HE DID. I think Willie Taggart is a solid hire BUT the same people or "experts" or whoever is saying Taggart was a "great candidate" said the same exact thing about Skip Holtz. It means nothing. What matters is how they perform. If Doug Woolard doesn't at least feel a little heat for HIS BAD HIRINGS than why don't we just give him a lifetime contract extension? The comparison is not even close. An NFL GM has one job, win. That's it! And drafting Sanchez or Gabbert was not the reason that the respective GMs got fired. Also, why don't we wait to see if CWT was a bad hire. I understand that. I was trying to put the concept into perspective of you can't say someone is doing the right things because "they are hiring good candidates or drafting good candidates" at the time. It all comes back to how they did or what they've done. Not comparing the job duties at all.. And I never said Taggart was a bad hire. I was just showing that the people who loved the Holtz hire are probably the same people that love the Taggart hire.

All the Jets did was draft Mark Sanchez who was a great QB candidate to succeed in the NFL... HE DIDN'T. All the Jaguars did was draft Blaine Gabbert because he was a great QB candidate to succeed in the NFL... HE HASN'T. Guess where the GM's of the guys that drafted them are? Not the GM of those teams anymore. Yes I understand the comparison doesn't go hand in hand with an Athletic Director but I am just saying you can't sit there and say over and over "well they were good hires at the time" or "Great candidates at the time". WHO CARES! If that is all that mattered then we would all be dancing in the streets. What matters is how it worked out. Holtz was an awful hire. If he did such a great job and was such an exceptional candidate why in the heck was he still at East Carolina by the time he had an opportunity to go to USF? The rest of the country/programs were just blind to what Holtz was? Whatever you have to tell yourself. It's OKAY to say hey you know what Woolard WAS WRONG. He made the wrong decision. Because HE DID. I think Willie Taggart is a solid hire BUT the same people or "experts" or whoever is saying Taggart was a "great candidate" said the same exact thing about Skip Holtz. It means nothing. What matters is how they perform. If Doug Woolard doesn't at least feel a little heat for HIS BAD HIRINGS than why don't we just give him a lifetime contract extension? He hasn't had bad hirings yet, has he? ..... I guess Lelo could enter the picture here, though. Good point. But we were fortunate enough for Leavitt to be here as long as he was and take us from an up -start program to pretty good very quickly. Actually faster than any other team in the history of college football to go from a D1 football program to ranked #2 at a point in a season.

He rescued the hoops program from rock bottom? Big Stan Heath guy I guess? Heath has done a respectable job here. A few years ago in the NCAA tourney was awesome. But you can't forget his other years. Coming off the NCAA tourney we went 12-19 and 3-15 in conference with basically the same team minus Gilchrist. The year before the Tourney he took us to a 10-23 record and another 3-15 finish in the conference. Granted playing in the toughest basketball conference at the time I wouldn't expect a ton but in your 4th season I'd expect a little better than 3-15 in conference record. If he doesn't have us as a .500 team this year especially in this new conference, to me his clock is ticking or it's time to go. This will be his 7th season here with 4 awful seasons, and 2 good ones. With all due respect, you're obviously a brand new follower of USF basketball. Please take a little time and familiarize with the program, it's history and especially the most recent NCAA appearance. Anybody the least little bit familiar with that year knows the heart and soul of that team was Ron Anderson ... Saying the team the following year "was basically the same team minus Gilchrist" just doesn't have a clue. Furthermore, Gus and RA were an inside presence that we were light years away from in 2012-13. Give me a break... So the fact that our team in 2012 had Martino Brock, Anthony Collins, Toarlyn Fitzpatrick, Mike McCloskey (Walk-on but I went to high school with him, thought i'd give him a shout out haha), Shaun Noriega, Jawanza Poland, Victur Rudd returning from 2011 is not basically the same team? We lost 7 points and 6 rebs per game from Anderson who was a very good defensive player and offensive rebounder and Augustis Gilchrist. You can argue we lost a lot of size which we did but to me that's no excuse to go from a tournament team to an embarrassment..

All the Jets did was draft Mark Sanchez who was a great QB candidate to succeed in the NFL... HE DIDN'T. All the Jaguars did was draft Blaine Gabbert because he was a great QB candidate to succeed in the NFL... HE HASN'T. Guess where the GM's of the guys that drafted them are? Not the GM of those teams anymore. Yes I understand the comparison doesn't go hand in hand with an Athletic Director but I am just saying you can't sit there and say over and over "well they were good hires at the time" or "Great candidates at the time". WHO CARES! If that is all that mattered then we would all be dancing in the streets. What matters is how it worked out. Holtz was an awful hire. If he did such a great job and was such an exceptional candidate why in the heck was he still at East Carolina by the time he had an opportunity to go to USF? The rest of the country/programs were just blind to what Holtz was? Whatever you have to tell yourself. It's OKAY to say hey you know what Woolard WAS WRONG. He made the wrong decision. Because HE DID. I think Willie Taggart is a solid hire BUT the same people or "experts" or whoever is saying Taggart was a "great candidate" said the same exact thing about Skip Holtz. It means nothing. What matters is how they perform. If Doug Woolard doesn't at least feel a little heat for HIS BAD HIRINGS than why don't we just give him a lifetime contract extension?

He rescued the hoops program from rock bottom? Big Stan Heath guy I guess? Heath has done a respectable job here. A few years ago in the NCAA tourney was awesome. But you can't forget his other years. Coming off the NCAA tourney we went 12-19 and 3-15 in conference with basically the same team minus Gilchrist. The year before the Tourney he took us to a 10-23 record and another 3-15 finish in the conference. Granted playing in the toughest basketball conference at the time I wouldn't expect a ton but in your 4th season I'd expect a little better than 3-15 in conference record. If he doesn't have us as a .500 team this year especially in this new conference, to me his clock is ticking or it's time to go. This will be his 7th season here with 4 awful seasons, and 2 good ones.

it was the $2.5M extension that shouldcost him his job. If the department becomes financially drained, agreed. That decision didn't effect his decision to can Holtz when he needed to though Lets not give credit to Doug Woolard for firing Skip Holtz. I'm pretty sure our biggest booster the CEO of Teco had just about everything to do with that. When he comes out and is publicly stating that things need to change you don't think that Doug Woolard says oh crap I have to do something to save my job and save my face? You think if a booster who donates crazy money tells Woolard to jump he's not going to respond how high? Ha.. Already been noted but that extension is the most foolish extension maybe in the history of college football. (I'm probably exaggerating but it's gotta be top 10). Because he made a bad hire in Skip Holtz, USF has fallen just as the Big East has. Is it Doug Woolard's fault the Big East went to hell? No, but maybe he could've done something? He sat back and watched USF get buried while our AQ conference fell apart and now we're stuck in a non AQ conference with conference USA 2.0 written all over it. I may be way off, but you didn't hear anything about USF trying to do something when all the re-alignment was happening. You would read about West Virginia, Rutgers, Pitt, etc trying everything they could to get out of the Big East but not a word that USF was (not that anyone wanted us due to the state of our program) but point is whoever it is at USF in charge of that didn't do a thing ( I would guess the AD definitely has a big voice when it comes to realignment). Also... you said hold him accountable in 2 years when you see how Willie is doing but you defend the hiring of Skip Holtz. Don't blame him for the hiring of Skip Holtz but we can blame him in 2 years for the hiring of Taggart if that doesn't work out? Alright..

So according to your theory you think that McNeese State has 32 points worth more talent than USF? Ha.. I do. And I will repeat what I said last week. We are seeing the same results that we saw from this team that we did after Daniels was hurt. When the same issues from the OL are happening with essentially the same personnel it is a talent problem. Why would you expect something different from this team, regardless of who the coach is when you had crapppy results with most of the same returning crew. The players we did lose like Lamar, Barrington, Pork Chop, Webster, LeJiste, Landi, and especially Daniels were not replaced by more experienced or more talented players. Losing those pro caliber players is a downgrade in talent from a 3-9 and 4-8 team. Be realistic about what level of players we have here right now. I don't care who the coach is, he can't coach a freshman punter into a better punt than 2 yards from out of the end zone. How can a coach teach an inexperienced QB who is getting steamrolled by 3 guys not fumble in the end zone. How about bigger, stronger OL. Its not just lack of talent, but lack of player development and strength plus lack of experience. You're right on a lot of what you just said. However, I don't expect USF to have a winning season and I never did. I expect them to keep a game with McNeese State and FAU close, as in don't lose by a combined 50 points at home to them. Apparently anyone on this board that thinks a 3 or 4 win season with possible wins against McNeese State, FAU, Memphis, UCONN, or SMU are just ridiculous... lol Taggart can't control a lot of things. But there are things he can control. Starting Matt Floyd (one of the worst decisions I've ever seen a coach make after seeing what he did last year) although I'll give him credit that once he found out what he was about he hasn't even come close to seeing the field again. If you honestly don't think there is even a little red flag in the fact that he can't put together a game plan or get this team to be competitive against 1-AA schools and FAU then enjoy fantasy land. Hope I'm there one day instead of pulling my hair out every Saturday.

So according to your theory you think that McNeese State has 32 points worth more talent than USF? Ha..

Looking to sell my tickets to this Saturday's game. Section 240 Row D Seats 1 and 2 (right on the aisle). $10 a piece, so $20. You can email me or personal message me if you're interested. mcschmid@mail.usf.edu