BULLheaded

Totally disapointed at the watch site. 1. it's not big enough. 2. The fans there "save many tables for fans that "are supposed to "show. And when you try to get a table, it is "reserved", "waiting for our group", you can't sit there, it's for "our" group. If you are at a watch party, isn't it for all fans? It is first come first serve, and if "your" special group isn't there, when the game starts, such as this was, tough! I will never go to the Clubhouse ever again. We left, went to Beef's and had a great time!!! Clubhouse is right! If you are not a member of the "club" you don't get a seat. Hell, I will make my next trip to Copogna's. At least I'd feel wanted!    Reaper

hey, I thought everyone stood the whole time anyway....no need for seats!

Just messin with ya! anyway Capognas is awesome, definitely check them out next time.

Thats garbage. > >

I hope the country really sees Miami for what it is. A bunch of thugs.

1) The announcer promoting the fight and saying they need to "represent" and he wanted to join in.

2) The Miami players celebrating the fight afterwards on the sideline.

3) The Miami fans were encouraging the fight and celebrating as well.

This is why I will never go to a game in the "OB". The old U = thug U.

You're an absolute idiot for blaming Miami for this fight. FIU started the whole thing. They were getting frustrated for getting their  [smiley=moon.gif] handed to them and they take out frustration like that. Granted no one should have been fighting, but if you're teammates are getting attacked would you not want to defend them. I don't understand why people look down on this so much, but when it happens in baseball no one thinks anything of it. To me it shouldn't have happened, but when you have friends being attacked you have no choice but to help them. And you wouldn't go to the Orange Bowl to support the Bulls if they were playing there? It is a great atmosphere to see a game.

who cares who started it, using your helmet as a weapon and the gang attacks were uncalled for. Both teams were to blame but just because one team started it doesn't condone the tactics used by miami.

btw, went to the OB last year and was NOT a good atmosphere, was basically like entering a penetentary....the whole experience reminded me of the old "scared straight" experiment. Unless of course you like walking through the hood having the other fans in the face of women and children yelling FU FU FU FU. It is simply an atmoshpere of intimidation and their fans are just waiting to start trouble.

This is the first time I read this lengthy post (I actually stopped reading at the point smazza got involved - post 55 or so), and only skimmed the rest.

My observations:

1)  Those that believe they have a "right" to boo USF players and probably did so themselves does not surprise me.  Many show a similar lack of courtesy when interacting anonymously with others here.  I also wonder what else is on this Fan "Bill of Rights" and what one has to do be considered a fan to enjoy such rights, but I'm guessing these so called rights are just made up and no one here really earned the right to boo.   :

2)  Those that truly think Gregory or Severino would be a better second stringer than Pat must not follow the program at all.  Gregory, of course, was converted to defense prior to the C. Hill transfer.  Severino is on the roster and is not and never has been considered a viable option at QB.  Neither are in the long term plans at QB (never have been) and neither would provide any greater leadership or ability than Julmiste - nor do they have anywhere near the experience.  Should they enter the game would I boo?  Of course not - even though I know for a fact they are less qualified for the role than MG or PJ.

3)  Those that think those of us that do not believe in booing players somehow imply that not booing is a positive reflection on the player's skill is just way off the mark.   Just because I would never boo a player or coach, doesn't mean I think they are without fault or weakness, it just means that I know booing is not constructive and downright rude.  When fans boo USF players and coaches it hurts me.  I am ashamed of it and I know those booing have somehow separated themsleves from USF  if ever there was an attachment.  

This can be debated endlessly.  But many others have already noted that this is not a pro team.  These are student-athletes that put more time and energy into making us proud than any fan does.  Their shortcomings are not from a lack of trying.  They are representatives of USF.  At least with PJ his conduct and hard work better represents the image I would USF to have than the conduct of Mcfans that chose to boo him.  Embarassing.

Nicely argued Bulliever, but I respectfully disagree with you.  I think some who booed were aiming those boos at CJL and his staff for putting us in the position too rely on a guy who has proven he can't cut it as a DI football qb.  Also, I think it a bit presumptuous of you too suggest that those who boo are somehow disconnected or seperated from USF.  I don't think for a second you can accurately predict such a thing based on a boo.  

Futhermore, I regard the boo as a form of protest.  For example, some decent Americans think it o.k. to burn the U.S flag as a statment of protest;  I would never do such a thing, but the act of burning the flag doesn't in and of itself qualify me to pass such a judgment on them as too say they are anti-American or communist.  Some great Americans disagree with the war in Iraq and I don't believe they are any less patriotic than those who agree.   Sound a bit extreme? I don't think so.  We, those who are not so anti-boo are protesting.  We not only hope for greatness from USF, we demand it!

Sorry but are you actually using an example of burning the American flag as a defense for a person to boo? Wow, this country has completely gone to ****. It's not ok to boo our players....it should be CRIMINAL to burn the American flag. You are absolutely wrong in not judging someone as not patriotic that burns the flag, that flag is the very symbol of every right this country affords even the most selfish bastard as well as the blood that went into giving them that freedom. To burn it is to burn the very thread of America, so YES those that burn the flag are traitors and should be dealt with as such.

Personal attacks are far more offensive then booing but that does not seem to bother the fans in this thread who argue against booing.

Actually, booing someone IS a personal attack and to try and pass it off as anything else is laughable. At least on here, when someone makes a negative comment about another poster, the other poster has a chance to respond to it.

Bingo, on here there is a debate/argument between two posters...booing on the field is just a one way personal attack.

Look, these kids are not professionals and do not deserve to be booed if you can't see those actions as simply an mean hearted gesture to a kid on the field then there is obvioulsy no point in further debate. btw....Is there a point you would draw the line? would you boo high school or middle school students as well? How about peewee football? I can just see it now, an 8 year old getting booed as he comes in but hey it's alright since you have the right to show your displeasure  :

I'm sorry, but after reading about half of the posts here, I couldnt take it anymore....so now I'll say my part.

What does Pat Julmiste being "classy" or Pat Julmiste "trying his hardest" or Pat Julmiste "being a good guy" have ANYthing to do with a fan's right to boo?

I booed Pat Julmiste. I will continue to boo Pat Julmiste, as I did ALL of last year, everytime his name is mentioned or everytime he hits the field. The guy is the worst QB in the 110 year history of college football.

He may be our 2nd best option, which is debatable, seeing that he started the season ahead of the nation's top freshman QB....so really, what does THAT say about the talent evaluation going on at the QB position? Do we really wanna get into that?

Another point, and this is a VERY important one. Pat Julmiste signed up to play quarterback for a team that plays in front of 30,000+ people. Nowhere in the application for quarterback, does it say: "If you are a classy guy and you try your hardest, no one will boo you. If you cheer for your teammates and hold your clipboard in an upright and ready position, the fans automatically waive all rights to boo you and your performance."

Quarterback, and any position for that matter, is a performance based position. At QB, you either get ALL the praise (see: Blackwell, Grothe) or ALL the blame (see: Banks, Julmiste). Quarterbacks know this going in. These are grown men, folks. Not pee-wee football players. These men are old enough to fight for our country, they're not "kids".

From students to donors to walk up ticket buyers, every person in that stadium has a right to boo. It's what makes sports so great. People have favorite players and hated players, and like to debate about them. That's what makes the sports world go round!

Bottom line: Without booing, we'd have a stadium full of E.T.

absolutely untrue, without booing we'd have a stadium full af classy fans.

Maybe the next time a cop escorts one of your pals out of the stadium you can remember what a bit of common courtesy is like. Unreal, you get treated like **** and it's "poor me" but when you treat others like **** it's your "right"

Apparently you didnt read my post on page 4 of that thread. Do yourself a favor and go do that.

It's laughable that people are associating booing with "being classy". Everything in this world isnt flowers and lollipops, stop trying to make my football politically correct.

If a guy sucks, he's gonna get booed. It's not personal. I dont know Pat Julmiste from Adam. Bottom line is that if you play well, you wont get booed.

We have more than a full season of Pat Julmiste to base our opinions on. In his time as a starter, he threw more INTs than TDs, the USF Bulls had more losses than wins...AND in his GREAT BOWL SEASON, where he LED US TO A BOWL(one in which he was 8-25 91yds 1 INT and we were shut out 14-0 when A Hall ran for 118yds on 19 carries), the Bulls finished the year with a 6-6 record.

I read your quote and find it absurd. This isn't the pro's and these students aren't professionals playing for the money. These are students of USF playing for their school and as such they should be supported. If you have problems, ***** about it with your friends, ***** about it here, send letters or make calls to the coaches or administration, however booing a student athlete IS classless and if you can't see that then hey it's not my fault you can't see beyond a trailer trash mentality.

I'll deal with the problems I have with USF Football the way I choose and you can do the same. While at USF games I might decide to boo someone, coach, player, ref, anyone really, anyone that I feel like booing for a whole host concievable reasons.  Whether you agree with it, like it or not.  GO BULLS!

spoken like a true inconsiderate ass

I'm sorry, but after reading about half of the posts here, I couldnt take it anymore....so now I'll say my part.

What does Pat Julmiste being "classy" or Pat Julmiste "trying his hardest" or Pat Julmiste "being a good guy" have ANYthing to do with a fan's right to boo?

I booed Pat Julmiste. I will continue to boo Pat Julmiste, as I did ALL of last year, everytime his name is mentioned or everytime he hits the field. The guy is the worst QB in the 110 year history of college football.

He may be our 2nd best option, which is debatable, seeing that he started the season ahead of the nation's top freshman QB....so really, what does THAT say about the talent evaluation going on at the QB position? Do we really wanna get into that?

Another point, and this is a VERY important one. Pat Julmiste signed up to play quarterback for a team that plays in front of 30,000+ people. Nowhere in the application for quarterback, does it say: "If you are a classy guy and you try your hardest, no one will boo you. If you cheer for your teammates and hold your clipboard in an upright and ready position, the fans automatically waive all rights to boo you and your performance."

Quarterback, and any position for that matter, is a performance based position. At QB, you either get ALL the praise (see: Blackwell, Grothe) or ALL the blame (see: Banks, Julmiste). Quarterbacks know this going in. These are grown men, folks. Not pee-wee football players. These men are old enough to fight for our country, they're not "kids".

From students to donors to walk up ticket buyers, every person in that stadium has a right to boo. It's what makes sports so great. People have favorite players and hated players, and like to debate about them. That's what makes the sports world go round!

Bottom line: Without booing, we'd have a stadium full of E.T.

absolutely untrue, without booing we'd have a stadium full af classy fans.

Maybe the next time a cop escorts one of your pals out of the stadium you can remember what a bit of common courtesy is like. Unreal, you get treated like **** and it's "poor me" but when you treat others like **** it's your "right"

Apparently you didnt read my post on page 4 of that thread. Do yourself a favor and go do that.

It's laughable that people are associating booing with "being classy". Everything in this world isnt flowers and lollipops, stop trying to make my football politically correct.

If a guy sucks, he's gonna get booed. It's not personal. I dont know Pat Julmiste from Adam. Bottom line is that if you play well, you wont get booed.

We have more than a full season of Pat Julmiste to base our opinions on. In his time as a starter, he threw more INTs than TDs, the USF Bulls had more losses than wins...AND in his GREAT BOWL SEASON, where he LED US TO A BOWL(one in which he was 8-25 91yds 1 INT and we were shut out 14-0 when A Hall ran for 118yds on 19 carries), the Bulls finished the year with a 6-6 record.

I read your quote and find it absurd. This isn't the pro's and these students aren't professionals playing for the money. These are students of USF playing for their school and as such they should be supported. If you have problems, ***** about it with your friends, ***** about it here, send letters or make calls to the coaches or administration, however booing a student athlete IS classless and if you can't see that then hey it's not my fault you can't see beyond a trailer trash mentality.

Everyone needs to understand that better QB's then PJ get booed on a weekly basis, like it or not. All the PC responses are funny about and yes I agree that booing does not change the situation but it is all people can do in the stands to express their displeasure with performance and coaching choice. I believe many of the fans are booing CJL (I know I am) more then PJ. Hell the Gators boo Leak and he is about to break Peyton's TD records.

First, you may be booing the coach but I guarantee you that the coach is the last one affected ie...your intent may be to boo the coach but the reality is that the player is the one that takes the pain.

Second, these other kids may be getting booed but I highly doubt that it is the same situation. Pat has been benched, the coach already made Matt the starter, you got what you wanted and now you boo if he has to come in as backup? You act like the coaches made a decision to pull Matt for PJ. Say what you want but when all is said and done you were NOT booing the coaches decision at all, you were being mean hearted and booing a player that has done everything he can to help this team.

Lastly who gives a **** what the gaytors were doing? Just because they act like ******** does it mean you should?

I'm sorry, but after reading about half of the posts here, I couldnt take it anymore....so now I'll say my part.

What does Pat Julmiste being "classy" or Pat Julmiste "trying his hardest" or Pat Julmiste "being a good guy" have ANYthing to do with a fan's right to boo?

I booed Pat Julmiste. I will continue to boo Pat Julmiste, as I did ALL of last year, everytime his name is mentioned or everytime he hits the field. The guy is the worst QB in the 110 year history of college football.

He may be our 2nd best option, which is debatable, seeing that he started the season ahead of the nation's top freshman QB....so really, what does THAT say about the talent evaluation going on at the QB position? Do we really wanna get into that?

Another point, and this is a VERY important one. Pat Julmiste signed up to play quarterback for a team that plays in front of 30,000+ people. Nowhere in the application for quarterback, does it say: "If you are a classy guy and you try your hardest, no one will boo you. If you cheer for your teammates and hold your clipboard in an upright and ready position, the fans automatically waive all rights to boo you and your performance."

Quarterback, and any position for that matter, is a performance based position. At QB, you either get ALL the praise (see: Blackwell, Grothe) or ALL the blame (see: Banks, Julmiste). Quarterbacks know this going in. These are grown men, folks. Not pee-wee football players. These men are old enough to fight for our country, they're not "kids".

From students to donors to walk up ticket buyers, every person in that stadium has a right to boo. It's what makes sports so great. People have favorite players and hated players, and like to debate about them. That's what makes the sports world go round!

Bottom line: Without booing, we'd have a stadium full of E.T.

absolutely untrue, without booing we'd have a stadium full af classy fans.

Maybe the next time a cop escorts one of your pals out of the stadium you can remember what a bit of common courtesy is like. Unreal, you get treated like **** and it's "poor me" but when you treat others like **** it's your "right"

Maybe they should have separate sections for people who stand all the time, people who sit all the time, and people like me who pop up without thinking at every good play or for the defence on third down!

they do, it's called student sections and doner sections. I'd guess also that the higher the donation the more "pop up" crowd and less standing crowds that you'll run across. I think wooly nailed it when he basically pointed out that you should act accordingly.

I will say only one thing in Mutt's defense...he was not and had not been standing the entire game.  He got up during a good play and continued to stand for a while longer.  He would have eventually sat down on his own without being told.  I think his major beef was the way the guy said it.  He wasn't exactly polite.

That is how it should be, when something great happens jump up and scream/cheer, on key plays when you need to be loud stand and make noise. There is no reason people should be forced to stand through the entire game just as there is no reason people should not be allowed to stand during the key moments.

I saw someone wearing a white visor with a green iconic u on the front and the shield logo on the side (as much of it that would fit that is), I couldn't see the back real well but I think it said bulls on the adjustment band.

I've looked at all the online shops I could think of but can't find it. Has anyone seen it sold anywhere?

I found this hat that seems to be a similar idea as the visor I saw.

http://bullsheaven.com/store/viewItem.asp?idProduct=958

I was sitting right next to the band, and only once did the play while we where about to snap the ball, and the overlap was of only a couple of seconds.  The rest of the time they stopped as soon as we lined up.

I don't care about the snaps, especially since we run predominently outa the shotgun. It's when we are trying to get the playcall in. Delayed play call to Grothe, delayed relay to team, less time to Audible at the line, etc...

honestly, if that was really a problem Leavitt would have put a stop to it. As has been mentioned they are told when and when not to play and I'm sure if it was an issue Leavitt would make sure that while on offense they would never get the ok. I think the wave that seems to always get started while on offense and the fans that never know when to quiet down during the plays would be much more of a distraction then the band. It's pretty obvious that you simply don't care about the band which is fine, however alot of people do so why not just ignore this thread and let those that actually care discuss it.

Yeah, the band gets people into the game. But noone cares what they have on. The do the tom-ahwak chop, no one is looking at them. They dot the I, the don't look at the uni's they look at the formations.

Until we get the winning tradition on the field, you shouldn't worry at all about the uniforms of the band or the helmet colors, unless of course this topic is more intreasting to discuss then the two game losing streak we have on our hands thanks to Kansas and Rutgers.

To clear up a couple of things

1)A sharp looking band and a good football team are not mutually exclusive therefore we can have both (and discuss both) without one affecting the other. Leavitt & co can worry about the team and the band can worry about the band, both will try to better themselves and hopefully they both will...I personally have no problem discussing either.

2)When I commented on the importance of how the band looks it wasn't about the old uniforms vs newer uniforms, but instead it was to speak out against the absurd notion of our band wearing cargo pants and polos. Maybe others don't agree that the band is an integral part of the college atmosphere for football (based on all the ******** about the piped in music I highly doubt there would be many that disagree) but I hope everyone does agree that they represent our school and as such they should look sharp.

btw, I would also like to point out that the big doners that we want to attract are generally going to be wealthy individuals that are also highly interested in the arts and many come to these games with a big interest in watching the band perform. Do we really want to give a bad impression to that group of people?

Honesty I know bands are a part of the "football college tradition", but I could really care less about the band.  Especially since all they do is play when we have the ball.  

Seriously, I appreciate what you guys do, but band uniforms are just not that big of a deal.

I completely disagree, college football is an event not just a game. IMO that includes tailgating, marching bands, cheerleaders, football etc... In addition to that bands can create tradition such as dotting the "I" at ohio state or getting the entire stadium to do the warchant at FSU. The band and their look is important, what next? keep the cheerleaders and sundolls in sweat suits or the football team in practice jearseys? If you simply want to watch a football game then yeah it isn't important, but if you want to create that college feel you need it all and I'd much prefer to emulate the feel of the Michigan's and Ohio State's of the world over the FIU's (no offense to FIU but c'mon)

BTW, question for the band members. Did you guys play a LOT more during the Rutgers game than usual? It seemed that we hardly ever heard the piped in music and got a lot more of the band.

when I read the first post in this thread my thought was that the promotion of Rod Smith was SOOOO rediculous that even the most gullable wouldn't fall for it...... read the rest with very humorous amazement  ;D

Personally, I don't find the humor in it. It just causes a thread to clog up with numerous pointless posts.   >

I think it's funny as hell...but then I'm also a three stooges fan so I guess I'm just a sucker for that type of humor  

I really wanted to punch some rutgers fans by the end of the game.. they definitely were asking for it.. at least in my section.

UNCLE!! Ok, I give I'm now officially a Jenn fan!

awww no CAN'T remove this feature! I haven't laughed this hard in years!  ;D

Surprisingly good:

Grothe (not really a huge surprise considering the talk but definitely a relief)

Randolph (were did this kid come from?)

WRs

HOT (sorry couldn't resist that one)

Not so good:

Line play on both sides of the ball

pass defense (do we even have one?)

Play calling (one good half against ucf, the rest has stunk IMO)

Running backs (when your working with the 3rd string and below it isn't that surprising)

Kicking

Team is still undisciplined (If we use that special formation called illegal again I'm going to go ballistic)

What we need to improve:

The items listed under not so good

How we will finish, will we have a bowl?:

no comment

Still no answer. I'm amazed at the people on this thread that can ***** day in and day out, know EVERYTHING that's wrong, belittle those of us that are going to be fans regardless, and still not answer a simple question.

Who is the PERFECT coach to take us to the next step?

Some people can guarantee it's not JL, which dude is it!

It's called a discussion and I believe the discussion was specifically about our confidence in JL and why we feel the way we do. Nowhere do I see anyone (aside from yourself) bringing up replacements and answering that will take this thread off to a completely different direction. From what I can see there are the usual people that feel nothing can be done wrong and the usual people that feel nothing can be done right....in the middle are those that question and discuss the good and the bad and frankly that is where I find the actual interesting discussions to be....you know, it's called that HUGE gray area that is the most likely place to find reality.

I wish I never started this thread

this board has become unbearable

why? I thought it was a good thread and has had some good points on all sides. Responses haven't been completely slanted one way or another and nobody (aside from the usual poster) has been outrageously negataive. I understand if you wanted to just have a bunch of perfectly positive posts but if an actual discussion about the topic was the purpose I think it has been a good one.

Can we even cease and desist with the rhetoric about UCF trying to keep pace with USF?

How about this as a new stated goal for the Golden Knights:

Just be Southern Miss.

That's all we ask.

Just be Southern Miss.

Remember the S. Miss fans? Wow, this comment would burn them up to hear that ucf should forget about keeping pace with USF and "just" be s miss LOL!

for me-- anyone who is that dedicated to something and who so very hard to get the most out of it deserves a similar respect from me.

Now some people haven't liked the whole SMith at OC situation or this or that--- regardless, it seems simple to be a blamer after the game is over or without any of the day to day inside knowledge.

Coaching is a tough profession and the more visible the program, the harder it seems to get. The way I see it, each time we've ascended to the next challenge we've met the challenge. Maybe not immediately but eventually we got things cooking along. CJL would probably have a CUSA championship had those numbnuts not made us wait two more years than he thought we would. He kept pushing along, weathering a very nice 9-2 season only to be denied a bowl game. It's stuff like that that endears him to many folks including myself. He could sit there and whine about how tough it's been but he just takes it one day/one game at a time and does whatever he can to make the team ready.

Now that may describe 95% of all head coaches in college football-- who really knows. All I can say is this guy is all about USF. He's had chances to move along but this one is personal. He wants it so bad you can see it. I don't know how you can replace that type of passion for a team or a school. That's why I am certain he is a 100% the right choice for USF.

I agree completely about respecting Leavitt after all he has done for us. I also agree that he is 100% commited to our program which is why I 100% HOPE that he ends up being our coach for his entire career. However, you did ask everyone's opinion on whether or not we think he should be not if we hope he will be and unless we're just having a feel good thread I have to answer it honestly. The key to the answer to me is where I would like to see the program evolve into and to me that would be:

1)perennial BE champion

2)prominent national program

3)always have a packed stadium

4)become the premier team (at least college team) in Tampa

I think everything Leavitt has done has build a very very solid foundation for us to get there and has accomplished something that probably only a handfull of people could have (or would be willing to) have achieved. That being said, it is my opinion that we still just don't know if he can go all the way or if there is a cap on his abilities. He has proven that he has talent as a coach but at the same time has shown some flaws that IMO could hold him back. IMO a lot will depend on his ability to adapt as the situations and needs change.

So again, I 100% hope he is the coach yet can only say with confidence at this point that he (at this level) is a good coach with some flaws.

80-89

Leavitt has done a great job and if the question was whether or not he was the right coach up to the point we reached the big east I would have given him the 100% (hindsight is 20/20)

Going forward I can't say 100% that he will be able to get us to a premier program in the big east or a national powerhouse (assuming that is the ultimate measure of success from here on out). I agree with Mike that many flaws would be there regardless of the coach but there are also some flaws that are independant of any program limitations such as his extreme loyalty to certain coaches and what seems to be a stubborness to change his mindset on the offensive system.

Personally I hope he is the one and would love to see him be a legend at USF but nobody is flawless/perfect and it's a whole new ballgame at this level so we'll just have to see.

Thanks for the link!

btw, we played Deer Creek today, really nice course. I bit rainy today but we ended up practically having to course to ourselves and it only really was a problem on a couple holes. Just about everyone we talked to mentioned that course you recomended over in manhattan, we probably won't have time to get there this trip but its on my list for the next visit...on to prairie highlands tomorrow!