BULLheaded

yep, students did well until a couple of losses ie...fair weather students. I believe I said this already, not sure what your getting at but my point was simple. The students are the ones who should be the passionate ones and watching them completely give up the instant we lost a couple showed their true colors. Don't get me wrong though, I'm not saying the community has done a great job either just that the students have more of a responsibility especially since at this time most of the alumn didn't have the first hand experience of a team so there isn't the connection and also the students don't have to fork out any hard earned money to show up. At this stage our program needs to build the tradition and that starts with the students and will eventually spread. It is not up to the alumni or the community to take care of this, it is up to the current batch of kids and it obviously isn't going to happen if all they care about is a win instead of having true school pride. ****, I was going to drop this and you had to bring my name back up  :-/

1. to have the entire family in town for x-mas 2. Rose Bowl 3. Colgate 4. Sprint 5. Golf shirts from the Wicked Stick golf course in Myrtle Beach.

uhhhhhhhh, you mean that losing history complete with a curse that no matter how good things are going it will eventually fall apart? Excuse me but isn't everyone here ******** that we need to win to fill the stadium yet here is a cubs fan mentioning that cub fans have created an incredible fan base with a LOSING history. Of coure I feel the same way since growing up in cleveland we had the same deal with the browns, consistently mediocre or bad teams yet still passionate as hell. I agree with it being hard to create fans from scratch which is why I am so **** pissed at the students. THEY are the only ones who truely can call this program their own since the majority of alumn never got to experience it and of course if the students care less how can we expect alumn from other schools who just live in tampa to have any interest? As far as the only 16K season ticket sales, well we have 40K students who are given free entry so technically I'd say we have about 56K season ticket holders. I know I know, there are all sorts of reasons (excuses) people state that this large student base shouldn't count but I just don't buy it, old or young, communter or not, with that size base we shouldn't have a problem getting a large student turnout, I bet many have no problems getting to buc games regardless of age or where their home is.

Wooly, this is just the way it is in the current football environment. Every team is driven by tv and $$s from the mid majors to the major bcs teams...heck the bcs "holy grail" itself is nothing but one big tv decision. Everyone will just have to get used to it as the days of a consistent schedule is gone. As I mentioned before, the schools that will cope the best are those with a great passionate fan base and in the case of a young program like us that starts with the students who are about the only ones to experience the school with football firsthand. This season has done nothing more then expose the so called passionate students as fair weather fans. If they aren't able to build up a better interest in this team regardless of what excuse of the day is then we'll just be another school with a struggling program. I also think the marketing could be better (much better) but look at the student section in the begining of the year...they filled it so it's not like there weren't enough students aware that a game was going on but just that the students no longer cared. I'll just cross my fingers that each year will bring along a more supportive batch of students and maybe this will eventually change.

All the excuses about the times, time changes, dates of games, weather, other games going on etc etc etc... are just that, excuses. I would bet all those reasons would not have mattered had the team been winning. Truth is that it is easy to be a fan when things are going well but only those that are true fans will attend otherwise. What sets schools apart from one another when it comes to those that fill the stadium no matter what the circumstances and those that always seem to struggle are the passion of the fans and their love for their team. We just don't have that at all, so what is the solution? Its up to the students, it is the students who are the foundation for our fan base...after a few decades have passed those students who are attending with a team will spread out through the community and hopefully create a strong alumni and community fan base. Until time goes by the ones we should be able to count on to be rabid fans are the students BUT unfortunately the students don't really give a **** so that's not looking too promising. Will marketing help? I'm sure it will but we really can't expect much if even the students themselves don't care. Oh well, I guess it will have to just remain a few of us enjoying football through thick and thin and be happy the years we are good enough that the non-caring students will show up and help out attendance out. OH yeah, in answer to the question...yes those numbers sound either correct if not a tad inflated.

The question I just can't help but ask is why is it you think we should be understanding to this attitude? What would you think if you went to your precious fsu school and ran into students talking about how they just can't get into the noles since they were brought up gator fans? Oh well, thanks for supporting my belief that USF students don't give a ****.

USF Student you just explained why students don't give a **** then ask us to lay off of them for this? Gotta be kidding! Tell you what, once you graduate and hang that deploma up on your wall (assuming you don't forge an FSU deploma) ask yourself if that FSU school your so **** fond of helped you in any way. Geesh, no problem being a fan of other schools but USF is YOUR school and if you can't place YOUR school first then I just don't get it. Man I just love your first post.... We had good turnout until recently  (yeah, FAIR weather) Don't bash us just because we have more passion for UF, FSU & Miami over USF (can barely contain my response to this one) The campus doesn't provide an atmosphere to watch a losing team (that's up to you and the other students not the **** school...oh yeah you students are too passionate about the other florida schools) can't change how you were brought up? Bull spit! I was brought up a wolverine...every **** person in my family for generations on both sides went to michigan, I even went to football camp under shembeckler 2 summers and you know what? It isn't my school no matter what my **** upbringing was. I'll always love the wolverines and no matter how long I've been a fan or how I've been brought up it wont change the fact that they are not my school. Man your post just proves that all the bashing that upsets you so much is completely justified.

Again, I agree with all you are saying. HOWEVER, I'm also saying that this isn't the case in schools where the fans really are passionate and love their TEAM instead of simply winning.  I believe this is a big distinction that sets apart the schools that have great fan support and those that struggle consistently to get butts in seats. Aside from a handfull of schools most will have good times and bad times and schools with great fan support will fill stadiums regardless. In our case we didn't just have a bad turnout we had a mass exodus of fans, and I mean the stadium was barren and that is because at USF the students, alumni & community really don't care about USF football. I guess some people can feel there is justification in this but I personally feel it is totally unjustifiable and that USF students don't deserve to be rewarded with a winning program if they are completely unwilling to be there through the tough times. oh, keep in mind also that students get in FREE, so it isn't like trying to justify purchasing a bad product. When it comes to forking out hard earned money on something (especially when it is as expensive as pro sports) then this argument is much more believable and this is also why I blame the students more then I do the rest of the community with their lack of turnout. Like it is some big frickin deal 6 times a year to get your ass out of bed and spend a few hours doing something that doesn't cost you a **** cent.

yep, sure would sting. However if we don't make some changes in the offseason I'd say it wouldn't be all that much of a surprise.

Not arguing this point....actually using this exact point as an example of the fact that they are fairweather fans that only care about winning and could care less about school support. They showed up in droves when we were doing well and practically disappeared the instant we lost a couple games. And your right, all they want is to be able to pound on their chests and brag about how our school can beat your school and obviously have no true passion for the team itself. These students have been given a winning product for years on the feild and how do they show support when things got rough? Yep, bye bye!

Good post! Truth is that unfortunately our students and alumni for the most part don't really care....or more specifically they care about winning football yet care less about USF football. All this bs about losing, game times, holidays yadda yadda yadda...look other schools deal with the exact same issues and it's pretty simple, if the fans care they show up, if they don't then they don't and it's become pretty obvious that right now we are one of those schools that the students and alumni don't care enough to go out of their way to support. If it's just that we are too young a program or any other reason doesn't really change that fact. Just really was a slap of reality that after several winning seasons and to see the students showing up in large numbers last year and begining of this year to watch how practically instantaniously they stopped attending after a couple losses, I guess I just expected better then a bunch of fair weathered students. I also have to agree with cool about the winning angle. While it's true that winning will bring in the fans it shouldn't be the only thing especially after we have had year after year of doing exactly that. But hey, I'm from cleveland so I come from a perspective where the fans really are rabid in how much passion and love they have for their team. Shoot, the browns fans most common saying is "maybe next year" and continue to sell out the games with nothing but mediocre to terrible seasons. Again, I guess I just expected that same passion for the Bulls and unfortunately it isn't there and in it's place is just excuses.

hmmmm, lets see... Pitt comes here as the first BCS team ever to play in Ray Jay, Future conference mates as we enter a BCS conference and looking for revenge over the beating we gave them a few years ago. It's nationally televised and we end up with what? Maybe 100 students showing up, maybe 10K fans and playing like a poor high school team. Yeah, I'd say showing them and the country a complete lack of interest in the team along with horrid action on the field justifies this comparison. Hopefully we can turn it around but for now what exactly did we do to say we are better then temple?

hmmm, leavitt and mercury. well one likes to head butt and the other....ummmm never mind :-X

I can't believe you guys!! Don't you know this marching band is brand new so your expectations are just too high. Besides, you must have musicians who can execute! Is it the fault of the director if they go out and screw up notes or miss keys? They only draw up the show, it's up to the musicians to actually execute it  ;D

is it just me or does this comment make anyone else feel really old!

at last!! somebody truly GETS it ;D

Bien, an interesting way to look at it. I hadn't thought of it that way and even though I don't truly buy it I suppose we can give the kids a mulligan for that one game. That being said, student numbers cut at least in half for ECU and that was at the correct time, weather was perfect and one of the big 3 had already played for the week so the excuse then was that ecu was a bad opponent. This past weekend it was the time/date & holiday excuse so we'll just have to see if they make it up for the Pitt game. If they don't show just because the game is at 11 then there really is only one excuse that explains it all and that is they have lost interest now that we are not winning and any excuse is a good excuse not to show  ie... "fair weather" fans. I was thinking a bit about the finger pointing to the community vs the student issue as well. what did we have as an average going into the past couple games? around 32K fans? Now, I had been told there was around 9K+ students of that 32K. attendance was around 20K on saturday with maybe 1K - 1.5K students. So basically the community dropped from 23K to 18.5K and the students dropped from 9K to 1.5K In other words the community loss was 18.5% and the students at 83% I'm sorry but students weren't the only ones on holiday or having to work. And as for being "away" at home, most of usf students are within driving distance so I don't buy into that excuse being responsible for any significant drop in numbers. IMO the students just didn't pull their weight in this game, but maybe bien's reason is sound and hopefully we'll see a big turnout at pitt.

hmmmm, maybe my memory if failing but I seem to recall Michigan State running the good coach out of UL....straight to Lancing. I also don't remember people in Louisville being very happy that he left.

Yep, this is the point...holiday weekend, work, early game are not the reasons for the no show of students but the fair weather usf fan is the reason for the lack of attendance. If everyone if fine with that then that's up to you but it really pisses me off that the students have been given a great team for years and after one bad season just disappear...yeah, that is some great support. Oh and for those pissed at the community, again I have to say that if the students don't give a crap why should the community care?

This is exactly what I was talking about, people are talking like it was just a lesser turnout but it was NO turnout. What magpie said about all the students probably not able to fill even one section is right...I'd be shocked if they all filled 3 or 4 rows of a section. Wonder what the team would look like if all the STUDENT athletes stayed home or worked instead of showing up. It's really nice they put all this effort for their fellow students who cares less.

Alright, I'll just quit here...I'm too pissed to really make sense anyway.

Would be really nice for the communit to support us and I agree that the promoting stinks BUT I'm sorry if the students don't give a **** why should others who have no ties other then living in the same city? Besides, where is home for the majority of kids? Right here!

sorry, can't take that into account. School has 40K+ students and we can't get more then 100 students? Guess none of the big schools have students that work and this is a USF issue only. One reason and one reason ONLY the turnout was weak and that was the majority of students don't give a crap about their team. They want to have a UF or FSU type team given to them but aren't willing to do their part and support this team like UF and FSU fans do. We can point our fingers all we want at those other schools fans calling them arogant or whatever but at least they give a **** and will show up win or lose.

turnout bad? LMAO! that's one way to put it...more accurately would be non fricking existent! They are an embarassment, I have complimented them last year and begining of this year for the support they have shown and now I see this was all a bunch of crap. As I mention in another thread, they don't deserve to have a winning team to follow and from now on I will be just as discusted to see a large student turnout when we are winning as I am with the empty seats. Bunch of front running losers IMO.

Yep, all 15 of them  >