SpeedBull

Duemig is a loser and 620 sucks.

1 hour ago, 206BULL said:

I dont think an OCS garuntees any of it personally. I don't think that just because we have an OCS that we automatically have a better game day experiance, Ole Miss may have great game day traditions just like Auburn, Alabama, Florida etc they've been playing football longer than we have been a university; id be shocked if they didn't have a better crowd atmosphere. Also that goes with money too, some of these schools have generations of alumni and this deeper ties to their school and this more willing to support (I'd your family's been donating to the school since your great grandpa attended you're going to be more likely to open the wallet than if you were the first in your family to graduate college). 

 

An OCS also doesn't mean students will show up, ask UCiF where the students show up to tailgate but dont actually attend games. Our student body would be more likely to show up for the party but not make it inside the stadium as well so an OCS doesn't mean shot as far as that's concerned. How are all these traditions and turn ours at our other sports games and matches? You know because everything else in on campus even if it's apples to oranges; even a slight bump because they are on campus would show me so proof of that. I'm willing to bet our Attendance for basketball is right about the same as it was when we played at Amelie for a year; maybe Trip or CR who attend all basketball games can let me know.

 

If we can raise enough with donations earmarked for an OCS(you can tell them exactly how you want your donation spent)  than great otherwise don't use the general donations or even donations specifically made towards athletics go towards one. I will be earmarking my donation starting next year for an IPF with hopes that one my money is going to what I see more valuable to the program and also to show that there is fan support for one. If you want an OCS open your wallet and let them know it's for an OCS if enough of you do that one will eventually be built. 

 

Again like I stated earlier I'm not against one of it makes sense but I'm against building one just to have one. Why worry about keeping up with the Jonses and instead worry about winning over Tampa. Because if we don't get fans to Ray Jay with world class amenities than why are your average Joes going to come just because it's on campus? Seriously if someone can realistically answer thatst question with plausible answers and not just blind wishing I'd probably be all for it. Otherwise whybsink $100-200 million into something that will bring in maybe a couple mil in ROI? Sounds like a great way to bankrupt a business/university/athletic department when we have not only a sustainable option that we can easily make that same couple million per year without the debt. Until it makes financial sense and not just in the "If you build it they will come sense" because we're not Kevin Costner and just because we build an OCS doesn't mean more than the 20-30k are going to show up. I tell you what though go do a survey and ask people on campus or people who stopped attending if they would be more likely to show up with an OCS; my guess is they will still watch at home (if at all) if they're not already going which than makes an OCS a moneypit and we would just be throwing money at a problem without a real plan to fix the real issues underlying this program.

We actually agree an a couple of points:

1. USF should try to "win" Tampa Bay. I actually think it's possible. The Bucs have been around since 1976, Bulls Football since 1997. That's only 21 years. Bucs Football is not so ingrained in the fabric of Tampa Bay that it is the unquestioned and unbeatable leader. I think it could easily be argued that the Lightning have become the #1 most popular team in the Bay Area. How did that happen? By (1) A commitment to winning and community activism and (1a) Creating a superior "experience".

It is my opinion that USF Football will always be considered 2nd best if we continue to play in the Bucs house (no matter how nice that house is). Perception is reality. In order for USF to compete for the local fan dollar and interest, we need to differentiate.

2. Focus on the underlying problems with the program. I believe an underlying problem with the program is the perception that the University is not fully committed to developing the program, i.e. remaining content playing a distant second fiddle to the Bucs.

I am curious what you think the underlying problems are?

34 minutes ago, tampatony said:

I think the idea of an OCS is like a frosting on a cake. I think that currently we have a bare bones gameday experience. With a winning team people are going to show up. I think we'll see a slight jump next year in ticket sales because we'll be winning but nothing like if we had an OCS. Do I have any facts to back this up? No, most schools that build stadiums are either bad and getting better or built them 100 years ago.

I think that the fan experience and the alumni experience would be a lot different if people were on campus instead of downtown. I think there is something about being on campus not only so students show up, which matters very little in the affordability of a stadium, but for the alumni base would be closer to campus. I'd like to know if donations are higher at schools with on campus stadiums than those with off campus stadiums. I'm sure they are because the fan base would feel more connected to the campus during football games and rallies.

You see schools like Ole Miss that have been historically bad but have awesome OCS tradition during tailgates. If we had 1/10th of that we would have a much more sustainable fan base.. I'm not saying we'd have 40,000 people if we sucked it up but 30,000 during bad years would be a lot more stabilizing than what we've seen over the past 5 years.

An OCS is expensive but if the school can fundraise most of the money and minimize the debt overall of a major stadium, I think we would be alright and have a pretty sustainable budget going forward. Anything less than 45-50 seats* would be idiotic.. we'll probably average 38-40 thousand people this year at RJ with a **** schedule.. Why would we build a stadium that would hold the same or less than that? That makes no sense at all.

*Unless there is some under the table deal with a major conference which means we should go to 55-60 thousand which I think our fan base would be able to support if we were in a big 12 or big 10 conference. (by support I mean when we play ranked teams it would fill up)

Amen!!!

This is why I think it's a "no brainer". Obviously things cost money. But it seems like the next logical step in the programs development. I have a hard time with people that don't get this.

People opposed to the idea keep talking about the money and focusing on the "business" side of the OCS. Yet they fail to acknowledge that college football IS A BUSINESS, and the gameday experience is THE PRODUCT. 

If the product is to improve and tradition and general interest is going to grow we need to stop being the Bucs Jr. in this town and create our own niche and identity.

Anyone that takes the time to read this board and post up is clearly passionate about the program. We are all going to support it no matter what. But the gameday experience can be so much better than it is now.

I would argue that the USF Football Program has earned our own OCS. We rose quickly under CJL. We stumbled with Skippy (although still had some signature wins)...started kicking ass again with CWT and now have CSS and all the momentum in the world.

The time is now!

8 hours ago, Triple B said:

Coming off an 11 win season, just hired the perfect fit, on paper, for the program .... yeah, I'm pretty happy with the current state. And I'm not AGAINST an OCS, just against the zealots who think one is needed for the program to get to the next level.

 

If there were a ton of people like you that don't attend games because they ARE at RayJay (which I think is shameful for a USF alumnus, btw) there would have been some serious noise about an ocs long before now.

I didn't say I don't attend games at Ray Jay. I said I would attend more at an OCS. So would a lot of other people in my opinion.

1 hour ago, George_Bullnard_Shaw said:

This entire thread should be terminated by the opposing attornies objecting due to speculation.

Objection Your Honor 

1 hour ago, TromBull12 said:

Two things we don't need for $1000 Bob

Haha!

1 hour ago, brybull1970 said:

An OCS is a waste of money with a world class stadium just down the road.

The same group of people that think $100m is no big deal when it's someone else's money likely rent the SD movie on demand because they are too cheap to pay for the extra dollar for HD.

The same group of people that are OK with renting space at an NFL stadium better be the same people that are OK with limited fan support and limited national and local interest from here until the end of time....because that's exactly what will happen.

It's not USF's stadium. They are not "home" games. 

If 20 years in to this program they are still relying on the novelty of playing in an NFL stadium for recruiting we are destined to remain a footnote and afterthought in big time college football. 

I never begrudge a kid for turning pro, whenever they believe it makes the most business sense for them. 

NCAA football is business just like the NFL. It's all about timing. 

That said, I do hope that Mack comes back. He's a classy kid and a great runner. I think he could use another year to get bigger and stronger. If he has another good year and stays healthy it can only help his draft status, especially with the increased attention the program will have next year.

If he leaves early, I'll look forward to following his NFL career. But man, I'd really like to see him stay!

GO BULLS!

An on campus football stadium is the cornerstone of a college campus. CCS stated it best. It's the sense of pride and feeling of defending YOUR turf. 

This is a no brainer. Make this happen Mrs. Genshaft! I hope that Coach Strong does not let up on this until it becomes a reality. It will be part of his legacy. Real tradition starts from within. GET THIS GOING NOW!!!!!

Go Bulls!!

14 hours ago, KB said:

This will kill non power 5 conferences.  Bad idea. 

They (We) are already killed. I'm all for it. We are (non P5 conferences) are total bastards right now. Purgatory and already not "relevant" in the big picture.

2 minutes ago, Thebullsfan said:

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't know where or why this started.....but I like it. Count me in.

WAR FLAMINGO!!!

QF is a stud for sure. We need him and MM back again next year. 

Their draft status will be greatly improved with another good season. USF will have a lot more eyes on them next year and #9 and #5 will be getting A LOT more national attention with Charlie Strong at the helm. 2017 will be the most important year in the history of the program. We need all our boys here and CSS needs to make sure it happens.

As for the GOAT QB in USF history...Man it's hard to say right now. Grothe was a gamer. That road win in Auburn is still my favorite win to date...well that and the FSU win with BJ Daniels at the helm.

If QF can get us a conference title, I'll have to give it to him. Right now the USF QB GOAT is still TBD in my opinion.

He has the potential to be a very good NFL receiver but the Bucs won't take him. They don't have the guts or the vision to take a guy that isn't highly touted by the "experts". They are a second rate NFL organization.

He will be taken by a team that actually knows how to evaluate talent, a team like the Pats for example. 

Rodney Adams is a stud, by far the best WR in USF history. I am rooting for that kid to be the be a very good player in the NFL. Good luck #87, it's been a pleasure to watch you in the Green and Gold!

1 hour ago, JTrue said:

When Skip left, he had a 1.000 winning percentage in bowl games. What was CWT's record?

So you are saying Skippy left us better off because he won a bowl game? 

Sometimes it's OK to be a big fish in a small pond. Watch the D2 playoffs. It's fun. It gives fans a reason to go to the games. There is such an obsession on this board with "getting into the P5". 

I say, for what?? There is such hypocrisy and backwards thinking amongst so many on TheBullsPen. We may NEVER, EVER compete with the big boys on a regular basis. It's OK. There is such an inherent inferiority complex.

What is the obsession with the P5? What is the rush to get our heads kicked in on bigger stages.

Build an OCS, generate a real following. Build REAL momentum and maybe, just maybe we can EARN a seat at the big boy table.

Anyone that thinks the P5 is clamoring for USF in its current state, playing at the RAY JAY to a half packed house is delusional. 

5 hours ago, smazza said:

i think they day we get into a p5 is the day we get serious about an ocs

how can you justify it at the level we play?

I'm going to start getting in shape after I start dating that super model. 

On 12/20/2016 at 7:08 PM, 206BULL said:

 See Sun Dome as exhibit A.

On 12/20/2016 at 7:08 PM, 206BULL said:

 See Sun Dome as exhibit A.

Basketball and Football = Apples and Oranges

24 minutes ago, USFBULL_08 said:

Honestly, how much is USF really serious about football?

We know they don't make a serious effort to engage students about the team and we don't have a stadium on campus. It's not like we have a lack of room on campus or a lack of funds to stall the effort.

The admin has let what...a few generations of students pass through without them seriously making the effort to turn said students into fans?

 

I know plenty of alums who could care less about the team and only genuine footballs fans care enough to follow the team and show up for games.

They need make an announcement and get the wheels in motion for a stadium. 

I agree. All you have to do is read this thread and see that half the people on this board don't even care. Anyone that can not see the value of an OCS is just blind. I don't understand how any person that claims to be passionate about the program would oppose the idea. 

1 hour ago, 206BULL said:

 See Sun Dome as exhibit A.

1 hour ago, 206BULL said:

 See Sun Dome as exhibit A.

Basketball and Football = Apples and Oranges

8 hours ago, Apis Bull said:

We need to get a few things straight:

1.  There is no evidence that an OCS would increase attendance.

2.  There is no evidence that an OCS would affect recruiting.

3.  An OCS would likely lose money, at least at first.

4.  The people that donate for classrooms and such may not be willing to donate for athletics.

With all of that said, I'd still like to see an OCS

1. There is no evidence that it won't either.

2. See #1

3. A lot of business investments "lose money" at first. This is a long term plan. 

4. Maybe they will

7 minutes ago, smazza said:

usf needs to go first class or not at all but i wouldnt build anything until we get in a p5 conference

Then we will never build one. That makes zero sense. The p5 is not attracted to 1/2 or 1/3 filled NFL stadiums.

On 12/15/2016 at 2:45 PM, BULLSHTR said:

We need an OCS. It will get alum back on campus and start real tradition, as opposed to the sea of red at Ray Jay. I live on the other side of FL, if I decide to go to a USF game, I don't even catch a whiff of the campus. I know i'd go to more games if it were on campus.

This is exactly right! I've said the same thing on another thread. I have to believe the powers that be understand the importance of this. If this program wants real tradition and support the stadium must be on campus. 

As for the stadiums on this thread...my vote is to emulate TCU.

2 hours ago, Triple B said:

While students are a prime reason for USF to build an ocs, they are basically a non-factor in the financial planning needed to go forward with one. Don't think many can disagree with most of your philosophical waxing poetic about having one but when practicality is applied, up to this point, it's not been feasible. Reality is that it doesn't appear that the core fanbase (read big money part) cares enough about having one to push the issue. Maybe CCS can be utilized in stoking those fires but for now, it appears to still be in the feasibility plannig mode.

The current and future students can and should be part of the "big money" donors in the future. But if they don't get inspired, they won't care. They say insanity is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting a different result.

This program is 20 years old and by most accounts is flatlining in popularity at best throughout the community. It seems popular for people on this board to dismiss the importance of an OCS and ridicule those that believe it's the way to go. I don't understand the mentality or the idea that it's such a financial hurdle. 

Almost every single program in America has one. UCF has one, I believe FAU and FIU have one, not certain about that...but why is there such resistance about it here? 

12 minutes ago, JTrue said:

I'm only marginally aware of this economics you speak of, so take it slow with me. How would increasing the supply of local media coverage lead to an increase in demand for said coverage, especially since you said our being the 5th most popular sports team in town is a given and won't change?

My point is that the local media coverage sucks. I think we can all agree on this right? If so, let's move on to the next point.

Since the local media coverage is non-existent, and there are no signs that it's going to improve, USF should focus on the PRODUCT. They are not going to get help from the media and cheesy marketing campaigns are not going to work.

The product is the team and the experience that comes along with attending the games. Are you with me? 

The experience at Raymond James is always going to be second rate. Yeah it's an NFL stadium...that novelty was great for a while. Now all it does is remind everyone that USF is renting space in an NFL stadium. There is no true college atmosphere. There never will be.

If USF wants to build a tradition and genuine interest they need to invest in the product. If they believe in their product it will sell itself....eventually. An OCS is an absolute must. 

As an alum, I love going back to the campus. I like to see how it's grown since 2001. It makes me feel good to be there, it makes me want to go back. I love seeing the old underground School of Business. It evokes memories and inspires passion for the school and the teams every time I go there. 

None of these things happen at Ray Jay and they never will. None of the young kids see the campus and imagine what it will be like to attend school there one day. They don't "feel" it. 

When I watch NCAA Division 2 on TV there is more excitement. They are small, plain stadiums that are packed. I'd rather sit on bleachers in a packed USF BULLS stadium than look at 40,000 red and pewter seats every time I go.

People can complain about all the other things but if you can't even get the student section filled up you have a tremendous problem. Tradition starts within. 

1 hour ago, JTrue said:

So, based on #1, USF is 3rd in town. But based on #2, more likely 4th or 5th. Which leads you to believe in #3, the local media should be spending more time and money on us than they currently are? Also, we should spend tens of millions of dollars on a stadium?

 

Are you sure you learned supply and demand at USF?

Yes, I did study supply and demand, actually it's called Economics, at USF. I was also a Marketing major and I understand both very well. I also started a business from scratch 9 years ago that is kicking ass. I've studied it and done it. 

I said those other things are a given and won't change. But, there is a loyal customer base that COULD grow if managed properly. Therefore the growth starts from within. If we want a program that ANYONE outside of the base can get excited about the demand will be created with limited seating. 

Did you even read the entire post?