Raetus

He did. He also taught me in John 8:7

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"He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."

Nothing that was said overwhelmed me. The statement merely invoked empathy and pity.

1 minute ago, GaUSFBull said:

Pretty much.  If Raetus didn't know where to begin with that ... I'm not sure he ever listened to a word his grandfather said.  

As his eldest grandson, I loved my grandfather very much before he succumbed to cancer and he was one of the most important people in my life. His passing is still the only death I have experienced in my adult life that genuinely brought me to tears.

Did I disagree with him often? Yes.

Do I think he had antiquated views against women and homosexuals? Yes.

Do I think he was a bad man? Not at all.

1 minute ago, GaUSFBull said:

I genuinely believe that my poop smells better than anyone else's who post on this board.  Doesn't make it true.  

Just my opinion as someone who has first hand experience as a victim of both organizations.

1 minute ago, GaUSFBull said:

No one would be ok with being in a conference with the KKK.  I'll just leave it at that.  No, actually, I'll add this to accentuate how I feel about your comparison and "serious" question:

I genuinely believe the KKK hurts less people, per year in 2016, then the LDS.

2 minutes ago, lotsofbull99 said:

Let's not pretend like only homosexual acts will lead you into conflict with Church teaching, their are many other sinful behaviors that are not endorsed 

I genuinely don't even know where to begin with this. As the grandson of a Baptist pastor, I feel for you. Best of luck to you, dude.

2 minutes ago, lotsofbull99 said:

I stopped donations to the USF College of Arts & Sciences several years ago when I took time to reflect on what they taught me and are currently teaching. I felt convicted that I could no longer support the way they lead the young adults of Florida into darkness and away from truth.

I sincerely think that was a good decision if it conflicted with your belief system.

4 minutes ago, GaUSFBull said:

I believe gay people are humans and now that they can legally marry, they do have the same rights as all other humans.  That's fine.  We're not a theocracy in this country.  People should be able to do what they want.  However, if they want to go to BYU, they must adhere to the honor code in place.  Otherwise, they are free to attend a different university without those restrictions.

All the LDS Church believes is that homosexuality is a sin.  They're not slapping cuffs on people and dragging them to jails for having gay sex. 

Tolerance appears to be a one-way street for you and many others.  You are mad because BYU isn't tolerant enough in your opinion, so you are intolerant of their opinions and stances because they're different from yours so you want nothing to do with them and you want them excluded from something you place high value on.  

I'll bite.

I'm not campaigning against BYU's right to exist. Much like the KKK, I think they have the right to exist. I'm saying that I don't think any organization that has those beliefs is someone that USF should actively seek to entangle themselves with.

The KKK is an absurdly weak organization in comparison to LDS that wields almost zero power outside of cleaning highways and rural trailer parks. So, if the KKK had a football team, would you be fine with USF joining a conference along with them? They're basically just white nationalists and anti-semites in most incarnations. They rarely lynch or crucify minorities anymore outside of cornfields in Indiana (my home state).

Serious question: Are you okay with being in a conference with the Fighting Ghosts?

Just now, NAM37 said:

From what I've read, their stance seems to be "don't have sex" hetero or homo. Sure they don't seem to be supportive of the homosexual "cause" in a "Wow! you're gay.. that's awesome.. here have some pie!" sorta way (which seems to be required now-a-days), but they've said publicly what they want is absence for all student regardless of sexual orientation. 

LDS says that children of same-sex marriages (regardless of the child's own sexuality) aren't eligible to practice in their faith until they're 18.

LDS launched an impressive door-to-door campaign against Prop 8 in California.

LDS stated those in same-sex relationships are apostates from the church.

It goes on and on. They're not recognized as 1st-class citizens or people.

4 minutes ago, Bullrush33 said:

Honestly I dont think BYUs LGBT stance is going to have any effect on their inclusion. BYUs biggest problem i going to be Saturday night game and having to be back before Sunday. Not going to work as well as having them as football only.

I mostly agree with this, but the Big 12 network is operated by ESPN, which is owned by Disney. And Disney might be one of the most LGBT-friendly companies of its size in the United States.

4 minutes ago, GaUSFBull said:

Ok, I'll play along ...

What do you think their "stance on homosexuals" is, and what would an acceptable revision to said stance look like to you?  

Why am I responsible for revising this, again?

I came up with this, though, while trying to assembly a piece of Ikea furniture: "Gay people are humans and should have the same right as all other humans."

As for their stance on homosexuals, it's very vocal. You can read about it on suspect newsrags like "The Washington Post" or "The New York Times".

10 minutes ago, brybull1970 said:

Not sure I recall such distaste for being "involved" with BYU when we signed the home-and-home with them for 2021-22. 

If you're talking about my personal distaste, I apologize, I didn't realize my opinions on all things USF were important. If you're willing to put together a questionnaire, I'm more than willing to answer it.

If BYU is standing by their current opinions on the matter, then I'm not interested in playing them. Other than some great success in the 80s and 90s, BYU isn't terribly interesting to me. Good football team year-in-and-year out, but people desire them for their international fan base.

They're like Notre Dame jr when it comes to fans. They will 100% add value to your television package if you add them.

Just now, TallyBull said:

Just to be clear (I express no opinion either way), you would want us to turn down an invitation to the Big XII if BYU were also invited?  Yes or no?

If BYU accepts an invitation and intends to stand by their stances on homosexuals, then yes, I would want USF to decline that invitation. An acceptance says that the school is putting sports profits before many more important aspects of the university's mission. If BYU has an acceptable revision to their stance, then I have no problem with them. America and the world in general have marginalized groups time and time again... if I held some type of weird vendetta against everyone who once believed something bigoted, then I would have to hate my 72 year old father-in-law, which I don't (in fact, I love him quite a lot).

With how fickle a conference affiliation has proved to USF over the past two decades, it would be extremely short-sighted to turn a blind-eye to what that says about our university in favor of short-term profits. It really comes down to whether or not sports/profits or the moral-fiber of your university is more important. Even with the new additions, are we saying the Big 12 will for sure be around in 10 years? What happens if Texas leaves? Oklahoma? Who knows what the landscape will look like.

tldr: I'd be all for the Big 12 invite, but not at the cost of potentially harming the university as a public, inclusive, academic institute.

28 minutes ago, GaUSFBull said:

I understand this thread has covered matter of all types BESIDES realignment, but let's at least keep it off Mad Cow-type discourse, por favor.  

Tbh, I think it's completely relevant. BYU is owned and operated by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. If they are to be a member of the Big 12 and intend to stand by practices that marginalize groups, then that's not an organization I want USF (a public entity) to be involved with. The Big 12 already has TCU and Baylor who are faith-based schools, but to my knowledge, neither is directly operated by a church. While Baptist and Disciples of Christ faiths have each had their mishaps over the years, there aren't overarching institutions for either that own and operate either of these universities, so their beliefs (to me) are whatever principles the respective university says it stands behind and that's cool with me. That's completely different for BYU.

LDS = BYU

It's no different than SMU or Tulsa (both faith-affiliated universities instead of faith-owned-and-operated). Both universities are influenced by their faith and I think there is nothing wrong with that, but they aren't organizations actively advocating against certain groups.

When I was at USF (2003 or 2004, I believe?), a group of LDS members dropped by my apartment. I had nothing better to do and they seemed like nice fellows, so I invited them in and said I had no problem listening to them. I asked them about their faith and they walked me through the Book of Mormon. That included discussions about how my skin color was likely either a product of being a descendant of Cain or a descendant of the Lamanites, which each were cursed by God/Jesus for their sins. They said this with a very matter-of-fact approach and in the nicest way possible.

I believe, recently in the past couple of years, the Church has FINALLY dropped this approach from official doctrine, but that's a weird and unacceptable thing to be preaching to a brown-skinned person in 2003. If they're continuing the same with homosexuals, then I want no part of being affiliated with LDS. I would be offended to have my university in league with a BYU that hasn't disavowed that aspect of their belief.

1 minute ago, raptorcj said:

It's "tenet", and hypocrisy will send us all to hell...

It is indeed. Thank you.

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"We recommend that people marry those who are of the same racial background"

- “Marriage and Divorce,” in 1976 Devotional Speeches of the Year [Provo: Brigham Young University Press, 1977], p. 144).

Aaronic Priesthood Manual: https://www.lds.org/manual/aaronic-priesthood-manual-3/lesson-31-choosing-an-eternal-companion?lang=eng

 

**** the Mormon Church. **** BYU.

40 minutes ago, Paisa el Toro said:

It's unfortunate but true.

1 hour ago, John Lewis said:

A general Bulls Club scholarship fund gift helps the education of over 470 student athletes and is charitable.

I'm a staunch believer that an American university degree has inflated to a price where it greatly exceeds its worth. How much is a credit hour nowadays? Drop the price of attendance, lower the administrative salaries and there will be plenty of TV, sales and licensing money to pay for student athletes tuition. It's not a USF problem on this one; it's widespread.

In no way is that charity to me. The current price of a public university is insane. I'll stick to buying computers for underprivileged or marginalized kids who want to learn programming and music instruments for those interesting in the arts. That's just me, though. It's great that someone is contributing to their tuition, but in my mind, there's no reason that anyone should have to in the first place.

2 hours ago, usfgrad84 said:

I think you are touching upon several very good points. Some of the issues you are bringing are definitely reflect why general community support, outside of the alumni base (and even among many alumni) is lacking. 

Although I don't USF athletics can or should participate in some of the same type of fund raising activities as Girl Scouts, Ronald McDonald House, etc, I love some of the creative ideas you discussed. 

Agreed. I don't think I've mentioned or even know the winning combination when it comes to fundraising, which is probably why I don't work in collegiate fundraising. But what I'd like to see is some out-of-the-box thinking in this regard instead of copying and pasting ideas from other universities with different histories and demographics and wondering why it didn't work.

2 hours ago, Bausfkid said:

Way off the strategic plan topic, but what if people just gave without any expectation of getting something back? 

My donations to USF come with a charitable mentality.  I expect nothing in return.

Go Bulls!

I'm more than happy to donate to USF charitable causes and have done so in the past. Things such as cancer research and music education for youth are both USF ventures that I actively support and donate to. In my opinion, there's nothing charitable about USF Football or NCAA football in general.

4 hours ago, Triple B said:

 

I kind of understand where they may have gotten that with statements like these:

I'll more than take all the hate that will come my way for saying this, but I'll just be honest and say that I don't see the value in season tickets or mega donations (for sports), at the moment.

I feel zero impetus to blindly donate money without receiving something quality in return.

If USF thinks that they're going to raise the requisite support necessary to compete with more storied universities without offering something of merit in return, they're crazy

 

It may not have been the way you meant to come across ...

I completely disagree. I merely said that USF has to offer me value to earn a substantial donation and so far, I'm not seeing it. Don't get me wrong, I fully meant to imply that USF has not done enough to cater my donation, but I never implied that an OCS is the only thing that would pique that interest. Statements like these fully support that:

Also, it doesn't have to be strictly for a stadium, either; if they put forth something that I want, I'll be all about it.

I'd pay $2500 for a parking pass that let me park in whatever zone I want up-to 5 times a year and was good for 15 years -- that'd be worth it to me.

That's what it will take to get significant money out of me -- something that I actually want.

Personally, I don't even care if we have an OCS stadium or not. If they want to build it, then it's something I would support and would find value in. If they don't, I'll continue to spend money on season tickets in other states and countries. What I won't be doing is writing a check for $10,000 to USF Football and say "Spend it well, boys and girls... I trust you." It's just not something I'm interested in. I'm never going to be a mega donor, so maybe the effort would be better spent catering to others, but I think a large degree of the disparity you see in the level of support between USF and the targeted universities comes from a severe lack of effort in the fundraising sector. Maybe it's because I've handled fundraising efforts for large entities before, but the current way of garnering donations is extremely limiting.

When was the last time you saw USF reach out to the alumni base to find business owners or decision makers willing to render services for free or discounted to raise funds for USF Athletics? I've never had anyone reach out to me for something like this. You know who does do this? Girl Scouts of America. Make A Wish Foundation. Joshua House. Ronald McDonald House. Call Publix and ask them if $1 from every sub sold on game day can be donated to USF Athletics. How about asking people at the register if they'd like to donate a dollar to support USF Athletics? Garner support from the local community and businesses. Small things like that are things that corporations jump on in a second. I'm a small business owner and I'd have no problem rendering services for free to support USF Athletics -- the fact that the effort isn't being put in on the other side, though, tells me that it's wasted effort.

My point is that USF's fundraising and branding problem isn't because of poor product on the field -- it's from a lack of leadership in that department. Sure, if the product gets better, the ticket sales will go back up, but we weren't flush with money even during the best years. With Big East money, #2 Ranking, and sold-out stadiums, we still weren't at the level of support that is desired. 

But, there's some new blood in the back offices and we'll see where it goes. As I currently have no children, discretionary income is more flush than I imagine it would be if I had kids. This is probably the time of my life where a university like USF should be targeting me the most as I'm sure I will inevitably plan to spend my money differently during a child's formative years, which would mean certain donations and ticket purchases would be lessened. Right now, donations to a university that I didn't go to and don't actively follow are beating out USF for my support, which is what I find to be sad.

3 minutes ago, candalina said:

If USF is going to get an OCS, they are not going to get it by people thinking their money is only good for an OCS. Did you read the strategic plan? Did you see how far behind revenue goals they are? We want to be good? We want an OCS? 

If we want to be good, we have to show recruits that we care about USF Football. If we can do that/show a good experience for fans/recruits at the games, we will get better recruits. Better recruits = better team = more wins = more fans = more money = better chance of getting an OCS. 

If every alumna of USF donated $100, we would be 1/4 of the way to an OCS. Do the math. 

Where in my post did I say the only thing I would donate toward was an OCS?

Also, yes I read the strategic plan.

[Edit] Also, why are only female graduates donating $100? [/Edit]

7 hours ago, Carolina_Bull said:

How about suing somebody when the P5 continues to collude with the networks to consolidate all the profits from NCAA athletics?  To date, the only school I recall that lawyered up and called BS was Utah (with its state's AG).  Couldn't help but notice Utah got promoted to the Pac 12 lickity split after a little sabre rattling over the then-BCS.

I have to agree on this point. From a business standpoint, I think it's absolutely insane that the former Big East teams didn't pursue litigation. Depending on the state, the statute of limitations on those claims has to be tolled or nearing tolled.

19 minutes ago, Triple B said:

Tweets from obscure sources about done deals .... Appreciate the breath of fresh air you've brought to this thread.

One of them is writer for BCSNN... a website that once approached ME to write for them... that's WAY worse than obscure when it comes to credibility.

3 minutes ago, Triple B said:

Interesting concept but you would have allotted a minimum of 10K seats, probably more because I doubt people with that level of commitment would be satisfied with just 2 tickets...

Fair point, for sure. I'd want access to buy 2 seats for that price.