The Great 8

9 hours ago, Brad said:

I'm old school, I still think it's more than the  for many guys like Quinton.  He has something to prove.  I don't think he persevered all these years only to try to get money.  It seems we always mention a player's ascension to the NFL is for the sole purpose of , but I think some of these guys just want to compete at the highest level and would do so without the allure of cash.  Granted, it helps a lot, but most of the best are truly competitors that would go to the NFL or another pro league to compete against the best, of which they consider themselves to be.

Have you spent much time looking at Q on social media? Constant talking about money. His name on Instagram has "Money Team" in or and one of his big hashtags is "#hungryforthemoney".

There's nothing wrong with a poor kid wanting to be paid for his amazing talent. But let's not overly romanticize people.

Tice is talented enough to latch on somewhere.

23 hours ago, Calibull said:

I agree if he'd been developed as a back he would have  possibly been drafted.  That decision indeed may have cost him millions... but I know his story and it wasn't catering to his vanity.  It was his mother and his way of dealing with her dying in high school.  Call it a bad decision or something... but not vanity.    He talked about why he wanted to play QB in college... there is an entire segment of USF Football TV show about him where he talks about specifically why he didn't want to change positions.  

"Vanity" is not the right word. It's just what came to mind. Let's not laser beam into one word though. The fact of the matter is, xCWT was the only one willing to cater to Flowers' teenager ideals. There's a reason everyone else wanted him to play another position and a reason why he's doing that (trying) in the NFL now.

Flowers shouldn't have ever been a quarterback. That decision will likely cost him millions.

That's not to undermine anything he did here, he's statistically the GOAT, and put us back on the map. It sucks to me that he's probably not going to get rich from football. I like him so much that I almost wish everyone would've told him "no" coming out of HS, because he'd stand an exponentially higher chance of succeeding now.

7 hours ago, Calibull said:

If Flowers had come to USF as a RB, he would have started. I don't think most of you realize most teams recruiting him out of highs school wanted him as a Safety or a RB.  I'd say this, if he decided to play RB in college, he would not had been at USF, he would have likely gone to the SEC or Miami.  All people have done is doubt the man can play positions.  He was the most instinctive and natural runner we had.  You can't teach vision and moves.  I seriously don't think many followed his high school recruitment... at least based on comments.  It's funny, I think he's going to have a better career than Mack.

This is very true. If we didn't give him a chance at QB, he wasn't coming here.

And the bottom line is, catering to his vanity likely will cost him millions. If he was a developed RB, he'd have been drafted, imo.

I've said it before to a lot of hate, but xCWT would've done better by Q to just play him at RB. If he doesn't succeed Q will have cost himself millions because of his pride.

Does this mean he's only getting reps at RB?

On 4/30/2018 at 8:29 AM, JTrue said:

Also, Holtz was the one who recruited White, xCWT just kept the scholarship open when he took the job.

Obviously xCWT wasn't the one recruiting many of the players he'd signed in his first class. It still remains that White never committed until Taggart joined  and that he did so very proudly. I think xCWT also recruited him at WKU, no? Finally, it's not fair to suggest he was going to sign, and stick, with Holtz.

BTW - I wasn't really firing shots, just  making the observation about xCWT and the QBs he signed. And that I hope CCS can do as well, while trying to make a pun with xCWT's hashtag.

On 4/30/2018 at 8:18 AM, MMW said:

Bridgewater 

For our program. But thanks for playing.

That's also not a fair comparison. A QB is naturally capable of completely losing the game if he's inept. A DE will not. I could play DE and we'd still have won a bunch of games last year. We'd win zero if I played QB. Likewise, Jerry Rice and Barry Sanders wouldn't have broken 37 records here... Simply because they couldn't. You'd be delusional to say they're not better players, though.

Q has had the most statistical impact of any player in our history. I don't care to debate that. I'm suggesting his stats, and the competition he played against, don't tell the whole story.

It's pretty insane to me to say the drop off would be huge from Q to Grothe or Blackwell. The Great 8 would've only been in danger of losing to the same 2 teams that Q did.

Except Grothe never did lose to UCF.

2 hours ago, JTrue said:

I think Holtz is our best coach, except for recorded wins.

This is being asinine.

You can compare stats of two coaches.

You cannot compare stats of a quarterback to a corner or defensive end. QBs, and offensive players in general, have more "raw stats" recorded for them. Period. I get how it sounds laughable in a vacuum but with context it makes sense.

What you're left with is being able to compare with your eyeballs their dominance at a position. Or, by proxy using someone's more educated eyeballs. A consensus All American honor is much more significant than anything Q ever did here, on a personal level. So is being drafted. And starting in the NFL. 

35 minutes ago, mjadams said:

And I like all the people mentioned. Best news all day was DJ getting his invite to rookie camp.

I remember people telling me he'd get drafted higher than Mack. The homerism is so huge for DJ and Q. Yet much more "blah" for MM.

That said, DJ was painfully underutilized his senior year and stands a real chance at being productive in the NFL. He should've been drafted. Nichols too.

4 hours ago, Triple B said:

 

He said OUR best player, not the best NFL prospect ..... and Q's career as OUR player bears that out.

I think "our" best player is Selvie or Jenkins if I play by your criteria. Remember the other censensus All-Americans we had? (Which also played on Sunday's for years)

Q is the best QB we've had in "our" history (probably) but he was not more dominant or highly rated than either of the aforementioned guys.

The only case you have is to argue for impact due to his position played. It's pretty obvious to me that Selvie, Jenkins, and Mack are all better though. By almost any criteria. Except raw recorded stats because they don't have as much opportunity at their positions as a running QB will.

Let's also not overlook that xCWT recruited the best game day QB in our history (Flowers) and the only drafted QB in our history (White). Let's see CCS #dosomething.

Psst passing against CUSA defenses, and having your OL block against them, is easier. I'm not convinced that if you transplanted WKUs offense into ours that Mike White would've done as well as he did against CUSA opponents.

2 hours ago, charsibb said:

Says you.

"Q will never be a QB in the NCAA"

Said EVERYONE but xCWT.

"Q is the GOAT QB at USF"

Says everybody NOW.

"Q WILL become the starting QB for the Bengals"

Says me.

Book it.
 

 

I'll mail you $1000 if this happens, and be happy about it. Not a chance.

7 hours ago, mjadams said:

 Our best player in history still hasnt sniffed the "best available. Thats just hard to see. 

Mack was better. JPP was a better specimen. Jenkins was better at his position. Their draft position and careers bears this out.

The excuses we make for attendance are laughable. I suppose we has absolutely zero competition for people's attention last year and that explains why we lost 1000 people?

Let's put it simply, people expect us to be worse in a post-Flowers world, and have relegated us to a lower status on their to-do list. This isn't because of hockey or minor league soccer. It's because our fans are apathetic and just became even more.

Joey is a troll and wrong a lot. He's right this time. We need to see spring games ticking upward, not losing 30%.

18 hours ago, Triple B said:

My answer is you gave Taggart two years (one year following MSU)  but in your supposed favorite sport, with a coach you're optimistic about, you don't want to give him any help at all .... and then whine about how we should be competing with UCF every year. Something just doesn't compute.

Again. This isn't tied to one coach. Basketball has been mired in mediocrity the overwhelming majority of my time as a fan. Meanwhile, football exhibited the most meteoric rise in the modern era of college football. 

One deserved more leash.

And yet, basketball got it from me. Until very recently. 

Football had me thinking it was a waste of money after Holtz and then Taggart subsequently being a moron. Displeased people (fans, boosters, even players) very much influenced the change we saw take place.

UCF has passed us largely by taking on debt. Their bet paid off as they now have significantly more donations than we do and a better atmosphere at football and basketball. Pulling financial support is not going to cripple the program. I'm not saying I'm not interested in the program, attending games when I can, etc. But I'm also not subsidizing the program directly until / if things change. And frankly, if they don't change we shouldn't even have a program.

On 4/7/2018 at 2:03 PM, Flowers4Heisman said:

We need him! 32% 3pt shooter!  http://njcaa.org/sports/mbkb/2017-18/div1/players/rashawnfredericks8xmf

This is an incredibly weird decision. Dude had a lot of potential in the NFL. Best of luck, was hoping to see our first impact player on offense be him.

On 4/8/2018 at 8:25 PM, Triple B said:

I'm guessing one major part of that systematic problem may be lack of support and USF Athletics job is made tougher by fans looking for reasons not to support ..... but you are correct, you certainly aren't alone.

OK, so your answer is to blindly throw money into a void. That's fine. I have a finite amount of it. I'd rather support things that show results and improvement. I haven't seen an iota of improvement in this program since I was a student. They're not getting my support to continue doing that. There's no reason we shouldn't be competing with UCF every year in conference. I'm not talking about a high bar here. I pulled my support after Tags 2nd season as well. _something_ clearly happened that lit a fire under people. You're welcome.

On 4/6/2018 at 4:43 PM, bowman1 said:

Saw that they signed Talib - I am still pissed that the Bucs picked him over Mike Jenkins

This is homerism at its finest. Talib has had a much better career than Jenkins.

He’s essentially whistleblowing. From his perspective it sounds like he tried several times to air his grievances in private; like you all wanted. At some point you need to discuss things publicly to get attention. If his accusations are true, maybe Maddox will be more fair? Maybe CCS will pay more attention and uncover that this was true?

Is Kesha supposed to keep private what happened to her too? When nobody internally gave a crap  or believed her? What’s so different here? If true, he was met with complete ineptitude and Maddox deserves to have some disciplinary actions.

Chris has some traits resembling Bridgewater. He’s going to be starting day one.