USFreak

Few people outside the local area care about Armwood vs. Jefferson, but it is still a rivalry. Do I need for USA Today to pick that one up before it can be called one? Did I miss when the rest of the nation started caring about USF....or even knowing about USF?

I'll agree 100% with that.  If the game stops (on a yearly basis) all the rivalry talk immediately stops.  If USF plays them 3 times in a 10 year period it is hardly a rivalry.<p>Rivalries are played every year.

If Wikipedia had any actual integrity it would. Smazza could have made that entry 15 minutes ago and SirGalahad could change it 2 minutes later.

Sure, but there are very few teams on our schedule that have appeared year after year. There was some recruiting history and 'snubbing' from USF (towards UCF) that happened in the early years that clearly got their coach (Kruschek) and their fanbase hot. They wanted to play us and the fact USF didn't got their blood boiling. So they have that.....USF doesn't have anything to truly hate UCF for yet, but if a loss ever comes that would probably escalate it. I don't deny it doesn't exist at crazy levels yet, but the atmosphere at RJS was the closest I've seen to a rivalry for this team. Rivalry Private First Class....in training. If the game is a constant the rivalry will be a constant.

Jr. Rivalry. It clearly isn't Texas/Oklahoma, but when both schools struggle to put their own fans in the stadium each week anyhow it is tough to call it a rabid rivalry. USF is a mere 8 years old. Some games we only put 25k in the stands on our own. I'd call the UCF game very rivalry-like. Closest thing I've seen to one so far. I agree that the media will continue to hype it. And why not, there is no shame in calling it a rivalry. USF fans can have a game a year like that OOC. I think Leavitt calling it a natural rivalry is probably all the logic I need. I'd figure he'd be the last one to give any sort of endorsement to it. I imagine the energy and attendance sort of pointed out that for a school that doesn't really pack them in....not a terrifically bad thing. Good opportunity for a close roadie and a nice revenue stream if it builds.

OK, so I'm to assume ALL these newspaper writers and everyone else decided it was a rivalry because they happend across this board (and the State of Florida board) and saw 35 or 40 people fighting over why this is a rivalry. Yeah, I'll go with that. Geography, the similarities of the schools, the fact they were founded relatively around the same time, have competed for similar recruits, competed against each other to get in the Big East (at least via posturing), have actually played a game together, both are struggling to find identity in big college football, both reached their first bowl game, both want to be the 4th member of the Big 3, etc. has nothing to do with it. Where do these writers get their crazy ideas? I thought it was against the code of journalism to print fiction. I guess what I'm missing is why people are not seeing that these programs have historically competed.....USF's sole lot in life was to leapfrog UCF to get where they are. UCF fans feel slighted. USF fans feel they've passed UCF and can rub their noses in it.

For my Rivalry case I present the following: St. Pete Times: USF, UCF rivalry can't wait http://www.sptimes.com/2005/09/12/Sports/USF__UCF_rivalry_can_.shtml Rivalry marked more by fizzle than sizzle http://www.sptimes.com/2005/09/18/Columns/Rivalry_marked_more_b.shtml Central Florida Future Despite bad game for UCF, rivalry with USF holds plenty of benefits for both http://www.centralfloridafuture.com/home/index.cfm?event=displayArticle&ustory_id=8a3af1ba-ba47-49f0-987f-2f12cedd158b Defining a New Rivalry http://www.centralfloridafuture.com/user/index.cfm?event=displayRegistrationPrompt&thereferer=http%3A//www.centralfloridafuture.com/media/paper174/news/2003/10/09/Sports/Defining.A.New.Rivalry-523243.shtml%3Fnorewrite%26sourcedomain%3Dwww.centralfloridafuture.com FansOnly Golden Knights Looking to Start Rivalry with a Victory http://ucfathletics.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/091605aaa.html Orlando Sentinel UCF and USF to begin football rivalry in 2005 http://sports.orlandosentinel.com/default.asp?c=orlandosentinel&page=cfoot/news/AFN2572684.htm CollegeFootballNews Why to watch: Okay, so it isn’t exactly Florida State-Miami, but this first-time meeting between schools separated by just 100 miles has a chance to become a pretty interesting rivalry if they can agree to play it every year. http://www.collegefootballnews.com/big_east/2005_Predictions/Sept17_2.htm Yada, yada, yada....it goes on in Tampa Trib, Lakeland Ledger, Daytona Courier-Journal, and so on. The word 'rivalry' appears in no less than like 150 search results when you type in USF, UCF and rivalry. ...and GASP...a quote directly from USF's Head Football Coach Jim Leavitt: "On whether this is the program’s first real rivalry: "Well I think it’s natural. I don’t think that there is any question. We haven’t been playing football for that long, and we didn’t play them early because they have been playing football for quite a while longer. We were a I-AA team just trying to see if we could become a football team. With the proximity of it all I would certainly think so. Everybody’s already been writing about it, since the two schools are so close that it would be natural.†http://gobulls.usf.edu/Sports/News.asp?i=1757&s=Football So let me get this straight. The head coach says it is a natural, but nope....we'll ignore that and all the other ink. It just seems like the words USF and UCF appear together with the word 'rivalry' just a few too many times to not say there is something to it. Press created or UCF fan created.....it is what it is. But go ahead....if there is hard evidence anywhere of why it is not a rivalry I'd love to see it. I'm not sure generalities like "they've only played one game so it can't be a rivalry" will cut it. Well, maybe if Mike Tranghese said it, but if it is only a some stoner in dorm room 202 in Theta that doesn't count.

Sure, by at any point did you notice it wasn't just UCF fans making posts about it being a rivalry? Look back through this thread. There are quite a few USF fans calling it one too. Wouldn't that make the 'one-sided' argument a number larger than one? How about 'mini-rivalry'? Rivalry Jr.? Poor man's Rivarly? Does that make it easier to stomach? Take it with two Alka Seltzers....goes down a lot smoother.

Oh I forgot. You had all the hard data to prove why it isn't a rivalry. ****, how silly of me. :-/ Listen, a lot of goons on this board are arguing it is a rivalry, but just as many are arguing it is not. None of them have any hard data to back it up. Each side just thinks by yelling louder they are right. Turns out until you prove it wrong it is probably the closest thing you, USF and UCF have to a rivalry (unless a wave of Pitt fans are out there burning USF effigies). I've seen a lot more newspaper articles calling it one than I have newspaper articles saying it isn't. Now that doesn't make it true, but I'd say those dailies in Orlando and Tampa will do more to form opinions than 10 or 20 USF message boarders saying 'this isn't a rivalry.' And you know what....come September we'll see a lot more. Get your "Letters to the Editor" ready.

Sure you can. You can compare an apple to a Mack Truck if you want to. The fans here just know a little more, but they are fans and they seem to be split right down the middle on the ol' rivalry conversation. Like I said, you could probably prove all this with a truly random sample of 1000 USF students. Maybe even break it out and analyze based on students that a) go to the games and don't. I imagine a decent percentage would call UCF a rival. I think what most on this board are using as their definition of rival is something along the lines of UF/FSU or Alabama/Auburn. No, it isn't that strong yet (or even close), but there is definately something there. Rivalry or not....there are negative feelings. Maybe all that flyswatting toward the UCFer is paying dividends in building this rivalry. I know the Knight fans keep saying it, but everytime somebody posts on why it isn't a rivalry seems to make the point an even stronger one. You'd think most would be indifferent. There is a clear distaste for the UCFers and their program.

Great point.  I've seen too much about the academic stuff and the medical school stuff on this board alone to deny that one. Plus I have too many UCF friends from back in the day and that comparison fits.  They didn't give a crap about sports, but they liked UCF and thought USF was a ****** school.

Not trying to force anything at all. Just pointing out the obvious. If this board is a microcosm of the feelings on both campuses it is certainly a rivalry. I know too many people -- casual fans that can't name two players -- that think it is a rivalry. My efforts to convince them otherwise get a cross-eyed stare like I'm stupid. Their response is typically, "well if they aren't our rival who is?" Actually, a decent question. By default they may be it. You don't have to convince me. I know why it is not a good idea. I used to campaign on the anti-rival platform. I gave up. Now it is just good, old-fashioned fun. Somebody goes home with their feelings hurt. Last time it was UCF. Let's hope that happens again in their house.

True, but UCF is the most suitable rival at this point. That isn't by anybody's design, but it is what it is.

True, but I've yet to see one USF poster over at those sites talk about the burgeoning rivalries.  Louisville we've beaten twice and lost to once (and had plenty of history with in CUSA in hoops).  I guess it the rivalry talk will spring any day now. I'm pretty confident with the 'sex in the bathroom,' 'fights in the parking lot', 'the no-show of the UCF newspaper editor losing the bet', 'the fact the USF newspaper editor made the bet in the first place', and a litany of other factors at least point to it being the most suitable for a rivalry if the series continues.  Some it may all be urban legend, but there were some goofball stories from the first meeting and with the makeup of the student populations and both schools relative 'wanna bes' it has a pretty decent chance of blossoming. We'll see, but I'm not underestimating the crowd in Orlando.  USF should probably show in force for that one just to give the Bulls some sort of advantage.  The last thing you want is 50,000 rabid UCF fans (and they WILL hype the living dogshit out of that game in Orlando) monopolizing the crowd noise and other factors in that one. The CUSA championship was one thing, but any of you that don't think UCF is going to milk this meeting for all it is worth are crazy.  The lead up in Tampa may have been somewhat tame, but I'd expect 'RIVALRY' to appear in every TV spot, radio ad, newspaper article and what not. Orlando will certainly think it is a rivalry. If USF doesn't want it to grow into a rivalry they should probably do two things -- a) not lose this game in Orlando cancel subsequent meetings. I think the UCF fanbase has shown they'll make the trip to Tampa and I'm pretty confident it will be their biggest home showing this year. I personally think it is a fun game now for a lot of reasons. I frankly don't care if it is a rivalry or not. It is sorta like the old Southern Miss games. There was the Bowers legend (quality vs. quantity remark) and it just made it a lot more interesting. I imagine this OOC game could be a lot like that. Some silly storylines mixed into a cross-state football game.

Now if USF fans could only convince UL, UConn and Pitt that we were their rivals. Whereas I've seen plenty of UCF/USF banter here (and other places) about a 'rivalry' I've yet to see a 9-pager about it on any Louisville, Pitt or UConn board. Maybe I'm just early. I have to agree with somebody above that said the more certain folks pour effort into trying to deny it is a rivalry the more it becomes one. Theorem: So-Called Rivalry =  2x(# of UCF fans that think it is a rivalry) +  (# of USF fans that think it is a rivalry +  |  # of crazed USF fans deadset on not calling it a rivalry  |  ) Ah, absolute value.  The great equalizer. The x factor?  Citrus Bowl excitement.

You got it.  When a post can actually get to 6 pages I'd normally say there is something different about it.  There is some passion on both sides.  UCF fans calling it a rivalry.  USF fans calling it a rivalry and USF fans trying to defend why it is not a rivalry. It may not technically be a 'rivalry', but give it whatever word you want to describe it. How about just "two teams (and two groups of fans) that hate each other"?  In these P.C. days maybe that is what we'll call it until UCF steals our mascot's head.

OK Collin. You've convinced yourself. Now you just need to convince all the USF fans and students that will drive to the Citrus Bowl. And if a return game happens again in 2007 you'll have to stop all the UCFers (many with that silly little thing called hope in their eyes) from showing up too. I used to say the same things, but you know what...I stopped caring because it turned out a lot of people do like this game. It isn't overwhelming number like UF vs. FSU where 100% of the fans hate the other team, but it is a decent number of folks. The market will decide this one. If the Citrus Bowl sells out and there are a ton of people on both sides in attendance I imagine it will be tough to stop. And God forbid if UCF wins....well, then you'd probably have to choke down all the words you wrote above. I'd say the chances of it happening are slim, but with Hall off the roster, a lethargic offensive scheme and a new quarterback it certainly isn't impossible.

There's the problem Collin. While a lot of people hold onto the feeling it isn't a rivalry...the market and the students and a fair share of the alumni will feel it is despite efforts to tell them otherwise. I'd actually like somebody to commission a quick study -- take a random sample of 1000 students and 1000 alums and ask them who are rival is. Maybe put 6 choices with Louisville, UConn, UCF, etc. Rank the answers....I imagine UCF will appear at #1 or #2. I can't prove it, but it would be interesting to see the results. Listen, nobody knows yet. As long as the game goes on it certainly has the potential to be a rivalry whether we want it to become one or not. The market will probably decide it. If USF doesn't want it to become a rivalry (or be equated with UCF) they should probably cancel it now (after 06). I personally like the game. It has that "danger element" that makes everybody uneasy. Lose to them? That would be beyond awful. There's some inherent excitement there. I fully expect the Citrus Bowl to sell out for this one. They've been drooling for years for the matchup. The Tampa crowd wasn't bad either.

Well, I'm guessing a block of rooms were held at each option and a block of seats on flights. Doesn't seem too inconceivable that would fill up that quickly. My guess would be everybody else is on their own or they'll put maybe a new travel package option on as well. Just a guess, though.

I agree Joe. If it was LSU I think WVU had a solid chance. Georgia may proved to be too much. I hope WVU can keep it close. I'll hold out hope that a miracle can happen, but I'm not putting any dough out there.

Chad Simpson could be the next Warrick Dunn? I'm not to sure about that one. He's got the bake, but I'm not so sure about the shake.

Stuart Mandel -- that's who I was thinking of, but either will do. It is a legitimate question. I'm sure they would answer it. I'd be curious to see the answer.

Yes, Champs and Liberty were clear misses.

True, but at least there are neutral conference refs at each bowl game. At least the 'visiting' team isn't fighting the fans AND the refs.

I agree. A good question for that dude on CNNSi.com -- forget Maisel or something like that? One side benefit of the lower ranked Seminoles is the heat has subsided on WVU and the Big East. Tough to cite WVU as weak if you immediately have to follow it with the Seminoles situation. So, all is not bad.