WoolyBully

Is there not something in the works for the upcoming season where the NCAA is going to start adhering to turnstile-trips vice tix distributed for attendance figures?

I know that SJSU came up with a scheme of inviting some HBC out that way to visit their stadium for a game, and since the alumni travel well, it jacked their numbers. Well...apparently not enough to keep them from reverting to IAA..

Monday, November 22, 2004

Associated Press

SAN JOSE, Calif. -- San Jose State coach Fitz Hill resigned Monday with one game left in his fourth straight losing season with the Spartans.

Hill, one of five black head coaches in Division I-A, will coach San Jose State's season finale against Fresno State on Saturday. The Spartans are 2-8 this season and 14-32 under Hill.

Frustrated with a lack of support from fans, students and the school, he is leaving to become an instructor at Central Florida. Hill, a former Army lieutenant who has a doctoral degree in higher education, also plans to write a book.

"I've been through eight months in Desert Storm and four years at San Jose State," Hill said. "I'm equipped for the next challenge in the world. Nothing can be comparable to what I've been through. I've made it out in one piece. I have no regrets. I just wish I could have produced more wins."

The Spartans have fallen short in several big games during Hill's tenure, who had never been a head coach before San Jose State hired the former Arkansas assistant in December 2000.

"It hurts to know he's gone," linebacker Ezekiel Staples said. "He's a father figure. It's like a divorce. It's hard to deal with the fact that he's not going to be around."

Earlier this month, San Jose State took unbeaten Boise State to double overtime before the Broncos extended their winning streak to 20 games with a 56-49 victory. The Spartans went 6-7 in Hill's second season, beating defending Big Ten champion Illinois but losing two games in the final seconds to ruin their chances at bowl eligibility. San Jose State slipped to 3-8 last year.

This season's highlight was a 70-63 victory over Rice, with the teams setting the Division I record for scoring.

"All I want on Saturday is a victory and a dunk of cold water after the game," Hill said.

San Jose State's football program has been under scrutiny from the NCAA for weak home attendance, which could jeopardize its Division I status. The school's Academic Senate wants the Spartans to leave the Western Athletic Conference, claiming the team's relatively meager budget still uses too much of the school's resources.

The school has employed four presidents in the past two years, and athletic director Chuck Bell resigned earlier in the month. San Jose State alum Bill Walsh is leading the school's search for a new AD, who must be hired before the school seeks Hill's replacement.

It also proves USF is closer to the same tier as UCF when it comes to fan support than the big 3.  A percentage UF & FSU students usually return to school for a game.

A great point! And there's nothing wrong with admitting that.

What drives me nuts is the board rats who honest-to-god think that USF is the next UF/FSU/UM.  Scream and yell...rant and rave about attendance. Welll shucks....what's our season ticket base? Less than 20K....we have less than 20K in season ticket sales and we complain about attendance?  Keep pulling these schedule changes and opting for these 11:00 game times...you're gonna see it get worse before it gets better.

Excellent response CB! Some of us board rats need a slice of reality pie from time to time.

I love it when we trot out the 40K student thing.

The student section was empty because some genius over on Fowler Avenue said ... hey Thanksgiving weekend, Saturday morning...what a winning combination.  I can swing by the game after I've picked up the mulch from Home Depot!

The dorms are empty...it's a holiday weekend. That 40K student business - bear in mind that it's not 40K kids between the age of 18 and 21. You've got a ton of students in their twenties to - dare I say it - forties that constitute the student body. But who sits in the student section? The 18-21 year olds.

There's legit reasons not to attend that game (hey...think we should drag this thread out to cover "leaving early"? ). The only one that won't apply next week is the 'holdiay weekend' argument.

BTW: letter to the trib today, sports section. Someone raised the question as to why, unlike for concerts, we don't get our money back for rescheduled Bulls games.  Remember, it was only the previous week that it was announced that this was a Saturday morning gig.  

Now, now boys....let's put on our thinking caps.

1. The student section was empty because IT WAS THANKSGIVING WEEKEND...the dorms are empty...it's the premier travel weekend of the year. Sad but true, there's more to autumn than South Florida Football. And I'm relatively certain that having a game at 11:00 in the #@^* morning did not inspire student thinking along the lines of "hey...let's get our collective asses out bed three hours earlier than normal so we can go to a ball game".  A lot of these students don't stop puking until 9:30 or 10:00, so showing up early isn't in the cards.

2.  Our first game...we pounded a weak-ass high-school team into submission. The stands were packed because it was new. You've got some folks, I swear to God, who wanted to see USF play the big three within three years! This "I want it now" line of thinking is going to drive you nuts. Until such time as you get it into your noggin that  there's gonna be ups and downs  and this is a long term investment...

Face it fellas, we were blinded by the light. We were a IA team masquerading as a IAA team for years, then we played CDOA  to the middle of the pack.  Want to dominate opponents like we did the first game? We can do that. We just drop back down to IAA and square off against Drake, Charleston Southern, Davidson...Want to dominate opponents the same way, but have them come from the IA ranks...well, get comfortable, cause that ain't happening for years.

As for attendance: feel free to take me out back and shoot me. When I was a student at USF, I did not attend one single basketball game. Not one!  I' just hit one or two per year now.  There's a difference between alumni of Drive-Thru-U and the alumni which you would think would follow the Bulls. You've got thousands of alumni who don't give a crap about the Bulls, because the f'ball team was nonexistant when they went to school. The sort of following you want takes many alumni generations to produce. So far you've had seven.  

...I think USF might start to compete in the BIG EAST in the year 2007 or 2008. Lets be realistic here because there wont be any gimme games. Both USF football and basketball have their work cut out for them. It should be fun, but it will take some time....

Yep...couldn't agree more.  That's the common sense approach to how things are going to shake out...but I guarantee...come next fall... you'll see predictions on this board of USF losing maybe or two games.  Gotta understand how this machine runs, fellas.  8)

Yes I'll be there if you are directing that question directly at me.  BTW I like your statement "manage your expectations".

Every single, solitary post I make on this board is directed squarely at YOU! First thing I do when I roll out of bed on Saturdays is say to myself ... "What can I, as a lone individual, do today to poke and jab  - with reckless abandon - Bulldougs football sensitivities".  ;D

The FootBulls are young but I don't think they can turn it around in one yr.  Its gonna take a potential all conference QB and Tim Jones being as good as Shurron Pierson was only against tuffer competition.  USF cannot open the season with PJ behind center next yr.  I have a sick feeling in my stomach and I don't think Pepto Bismal nor the men's BasketBulls are gonna cure it.

Well....this is a good learning experience. When you're at the signing day festivities and Coach "X" is touting what a great recruit Johnny is...just temper that with "if he's all that, why ain't he playing for [insert contender here]"  

Face it, sportsfans, we had some light years there, where it looked really easy. I doubt there would be this level of grousing had the sort of season occurred about three years past.

This little party came to an abrupt end on homecoming night. Next year, look for improvements, but - and I know you don't want to hear this - manage your expectations. Hopefully, there's not a plethora of board rats out there who think Jesus is going to miracle the Bulls in #1 in the NBE. We are what we are. Our weaknesses have been exposed and there's not slight of hand QB magic that can overcome that.  We don't have it this year.

Soooo...given today's little venture, you comin' to the Pitt game?  

If it was 20K, I'd be very surprised.

And, just guessin', it's gonna be even LESS next week. The fact that it's Pitt will probably not be off set by season ticket holders & alumni who have no interest in seeing the alma mater walk into a buzz saw two weeks running.  

Given today's performance against CDOA foe Memphis, the odds of beating Pitt are pretty --- oh, how do we say this --- nonexistant!  8)

... nothing to play for next weekend

Unless you rule out 'payback' and 'welcome to the Big East'.

1. I have yet to see RayJ sell out for a Bulls game.

2. I do not  expect to see RayJ sell out for a Bulls game next

   year.

We continue to have "the biggest game in USF history" and there's still plenty of room to spread out.

All I'm saying is ... and pay attention, now.... it's still a IAA game and you're betting on the opposition travel to fill your seats. Sooooo....

San Jose State & Boise State played - last weekend - at 09:00. Until such time as you're a legitimate contender, you will march to the E$PN tune.

according to Kiz's numbers

Yep....because I refer to trips-thru-the-turnstiles, not tix distributed....

The FAMU/BCC game is "it" for the season. This is against USF. Not the same marketing scheme.  

Hey...what ever happened to selling out the lower bowl for Army? Wasn't that going to be the reason to open the upper deck? It's all speculation across the board at this point. How many BAZILLIONS of dollars have you heard touted about what a great and wonderul thing [insert sporting event here] only to realize - after the fact - well...maybe we were a tad overly optomistic.  8)

From the Trib, Money Sense,  November 25th.

FAMU Returns After Bitter Split

By ALAN SNEL asnel@tampatrib.com

Published: Nov 25, 2004

TAMPA - The Florida A&M University football team is returning to Tampa next year for the first since the mid-1990s, when a former mall across the street from the stadium closed early on game days and left a bitter taste for FAMU fans.

But nearly a decade later, FAMU supporters said Wednesday that all is forgiven. They're looking forward to their Rattlers returning to Tampa to play the University of South Florida for the first time at Raymond James Stadium in 2005.

Tampa used to host the Florida Classic, an annual match pitting FAMU and Bethune-Cookman College, two historically black institutions. Leaders from both schools moved the game and its millions of dollars of economic impact to Orlando after 1996 amid racial tension over the former Tampa Bay Center mall closing early on game days.

``Fans did not feel welcome,'' Tampa Mayor Pam Iorio said. ``It was a sad situation.''

Florida A&M officials and supporters, however, said they are ready to turn the page and play the inaugural FAMU-USF game of what's officially called the Tampa Bay Sports Commission Classic.

``We're forgiving people. We're willing to give the city another chance,'' said Plant City lawyer Ted Taylor, a 1975 FAMU alum who attended a news conference Wednesday at Raymond James Stadium to announce the game for Sept. 10.

By welcoming Florida A&M back, Tampa stands to benefit economically from its football team and nationally known band. Joseph P. Ramsey II, FAMU's athletic director, expects Raymond James Stadium to sell out 65,000 seats for the Rattlers-Bulls game. USF's biggest crowd this season was 36,549 for a Bulls game against Army.

Ramsey said $70,000 will be spent for travel, food and lodging for the football team and coaches from the Tallahassee school. And $80,000 will be spent on those same items for FAMU's famous 350-member band.

``I think with the right marketing, this game will prompt people to start making arrangements to come,'' Ramsey said.

Taylor, who attended the news conference wearing a FAMU football jersey, said 71,000 fans watched the Florida A&M-Bethune-Cookman game last weekend at the Citrus Bowl in Orlando, with the game generating $25 million in economic spending in Central Florida.

Taylor expects 40,000 FAMU fans to come for the Rattlers- Bulls game in 2005.

This time, FAMU and its fans will be welcome in Tampa. The mall has since closed and a new training center for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers is scheduled to be built at the site.

``I hate what happened,'' said Paul Cato, president and chief executive officer of the Tampa Bay Convention & Visitors Bureau. ``That's past. It's done. It's over.''

65K? Wouldn't that pretty much mean that they're looking for FAMU to garner 40K (given that we average somewhere in the mid 20's)? That's wishful thinking, but I really don't know about those numbers.  8)

I'm still seeing stars.  

Let's assume that the old Florida Classic garnered 40K in attendance. Further assume that attendance was split 50/50 with Bethune Cookman. If 20K come to RayJ, coupled with our season ticket base and the 'local interest' in FAMU, it could get around 40K (or sell out the lower bowl).

The BCC/FAMU game is not the norm. It is the "big event" for both schools, which is why it is attended the way it is. The game caps off a week of faux-homecoming type events.

It sucks that we're stuck playing another IAA game, but if it has to be (as is apparent), then this is the best of a bad situation.  And remember, FAMU has been taking it on the chin as of late, and I think - given that there was interest expressed previously - at the end of the day FAMU wants to get a presence back in Tampa. The alumni and interested fans don't set the agenda...the athletic director does that.

Oh...and about the "unfair treatment". This is not the Florida Classic...it's just another IAA game. So I wouldn't read too much into that. Besides (I know it's border line insensitive, but I just can't resist): it's not like the mall is going to close early this time!  

'bout the only road game we'll be attending will be 'Cuse. A great opportunity to visit New York. The ideal gig would be if the game is later in the season...taking in the autumn foliage.

Getting whipped on national television is nothing to be proud of.  We are a BCS team next year and we need to start acting like it.  How many BCS teams play money games?  I can't think of a single one.  You can't expect to be treated like a lady when you're getting paid for it.

Hmmm....maybe not. Make no mistake...the NBE rookies were not a 1-to-1 replacement for the 'Canes, Hokies & Eagles.  We were the 'long term investment'. Just because we're in the a BCS conference (arguably, the weakest one still around) , we did not get "miracled" into upper tier status.  

The game with Miami - even if we're not exptected to win - still does us good. Remember the games against Oklahoma, Arkansas, 'Bama? It's something for the resume...much moreso than Drake, Southern Illinois & Valparaiso.

Bear in mind, we're talking about a team that - this year - will finish with a losing record, a loss to Army and - IMHO - is not going to be light-years improved next season. It's still gonna be one game at a time, with no "gimmes" penciled in.  8)

1)  The winner...............................South Florida

2)  The final score..........................31 x 24

3)  Bulls total offensive yards...........488

4)  Bulls leading receiver ............... Green

Are we talking tix distributed...or trips-thru-turnstiles? Couldn't resist that ....  

What do you s'pose a LOSS to Memphis would do to Pitt attendance? Any impact at all.

I'm guessing Pitt may garner more (by the smallest of margins) as it isn't a holiday weekend,  as is the case with Memphis.

Face it, gals. If it's good enough for my old alma mater (San Jose State), it's good enough for the Bulls. Those boys were out there at 09:00...at least we're running just two hours behind.

Truthfully, the USF/UC game could evolve - over time - into a rivalry. Right now, we don't have any rival - and it's hard to say what the NBE will bear.

Well...ND is in a position to dictate that sort of scheduling.  And it's not bad to travel to ND, even if you don't get a home game in return. Kind of like going to Oklahoma, Arkansas, etc. knowing that the odds of ever seeing them here at the ranch are extremely remote.

No...it's not bad to have an off year.

But we're still going to b*tch and moan about it.

Why?

Because we can.  

Surely you don't expect us to sit around blowing bright golden rays of sunshine up the programs butt after losing to Army and suffering the waxing by 'Cards and Bearcats?

We have been spoiled. It would be a completely different flavor on this board had USF struggled in previous seasons.  We haven't . It looked sooooooo easy.