TromBull12

Our thinking has to evolve with the game. The transfer portal and NILs have truly changed the game. There's not as much separation between FBS and FCS teams anymore. Especially in the smaller conferences (which we're in). There are great players who are hungry for a win at every level now,  trying to get playing time and exposure. We've played 2 games against two football programs who are used to winning. Stop getting caught up on the level and allow yourself to enjoy our first win in lord knows how long. We beat a solid team who just so happens to be an FCS opponent (I believe).

I didn't realize how just how different our conference was this year. I honestly don't know who our conference mates are in about 4-5 of these match-ups.

I can honestly say that he won't fail here due to lack of passion or commitment to the program. I believe if the players continue to buy in, they will have this turned around in no time. 

There was a decent amount of hope to be had most of the game. 

We suck less

My main issue with that interception was choosing to throw after he was clearly shaken up. 

No point in arguing if we feel like we already took a step back. Just enjoy the ride and hope we start winning more games. I'll happily be the tallest midget.

8 hours ago, olafberserker said:

Memphis and East Carolina roll today.  coastal carolina defense abused by ECU

It's stuff like this that makes me wonder if our conference isn't as bad as they say it is. Very similar to the "Big Least" days. 

Has me thinking that the lack of media respect makes us subconsciously downgrade our own conference and not appreciate our time in it while it lasts. 

3 hours ago, bullstampede9922 said:

Up until this point, he has out-talented other teams.  From here on out, we'll see if he can actually coach.

I often wonder if Alabama's fans should ever get to enjoy victories with this logic. Isn't this literally how all competitive sports work?

Really talented teams beat out less talented teams unless the stars align and the less talented team out performs while the more talented team under performs. 

This side always exists. It just doesn't feed the narrative and grab the same type of attention. 

2 hours ago, Grateful Dad said:

There may be ground between hate and dislike for the way a person acts.  I didn't know much about Sanders and was excited for what his name would bring, but I am old school.  Once I found out about his personality (I'm not calling anyone "Prime Time" - the verbal equivalent of grovelling and feeding their ego), I soured on him.  It is not sour grapes because we missed him.  I just don't kiss ass and that is required when dealing with his highness.  I think we ultimately made the right decision for the long term.

I can follow your line of reasoning and respect it. I personally was referencing the comments above mine that seemed like nothing short of hating. I just didn't tag them because I didn't feel like going back and forth. 

I personally enjoy big personalities especially when they can back it up. I'm a Kobe Bryant fan. Enjoyed Richard Sherman, Terrell Owens, Allen Iverson,  etc. 

So Prime Time to me represents the boldness I wish more people had (when they can back it up). Plus the descriptors change depending on who's displaying said behavior at times. When the person is liked it's  'bold leadership' or 'passion'.  When they're not, they're cocky, arrogant, or selfish. 

I believe people who want to hate on him will do that no matter what. That team has gone through a world wind of changes. Players transferring out. Coach hired away. New coach coming in. 

I wouldn't have been surprised if the other team had blown them out. They didn't. It came down to one player simply not catching the tying score. 

Where's this same energy when Nick Saban lost to Tennessee... was he out coached with his superior talent or did his players simply not execute when called upon?

Football comes down to who wants it more and who executes. As long time Bulls fans we should know that better than anyone.

To overtime they go. Really good game. 

4 hours ago, Bull Nut said:

I really appreciate the open dialogue and civil conversation. I guess the part that I have a hard time with, would be correcting wrongdoings or fixing a problem that I had no hand in creating. It's almost like I should feel guilty for what previous white men have done in society when most of us are so far removed from what has happened to various ethnic groups in the past. Although I grew up in a predominantly white neighborhood, my family was not immune to many of the problems within society today, divorce, drug abuse, financial distress, etc. I lost my brother to drug abuse. I'm of the standpoint that we need to let bygones be bygones and move forward and stop looking in the past. We're all human beings and moving forward is the only true path to progress.

I personally don't want anyone to feel guilty unless they are still actively hurting others. We have been and will always be in the same boat and I'm sorry for your loss.  Only issue is when someone is already at a systemic disadvantage, they go through all of the societal problems, in addition to the systemic issues heaped on them. 

I think acknowledging wrongdoings go a long way in healing hurt. I don't want anything from individuals who have done nothing to me or mine. The nation on the other hand is a different story, but that is also a deeper conversation not suitable for a sports forum. 

I also would advise caution with letting bygones be bygones without any restorative practices. Hypothetically, if my great grandfather stole your family's farm. Took all profits for me and mine. Then not only did we not share any of the generational wealth or resources, we act as if we never took your family farm. 

Then a few generations from even then we simply say just let it go. 

1 hour ago, E.T. said:

Diversity?

Should we have more Asian, European in the NBA?

Should we have more White Running Backs?

Race doesn't matter in coaching or playing?

I enjoy seeing different points of view, so diversity is always welcomed. 

I think it's cool when teams find talent from all over the world. 

If you can get more Christian McCaffreys the game would be better for it!

It doesn't matter to those that aren't impacted. How can the NFL be 60% black but the coaching staff is only 9% black. 

If playing the game at that highest of levels is factored in to understanding the game at the highest of levels, how can anyone honestly believe that only non black players truly understand the game well enough to coach it? 

The numbers don't make sense in that regard. Then if previous playing isn't factored into being a great coach,  what is the criteria? 

Then you have to ask yourself, what is it about this criteria that filters out the majority of the athletes and says they wouldn't make great head coaches?

Race always matters in a society that legislated race. 

5 minutes ago, Bull Nut said:

That said, we can't say it matters more for the black community versus X community because then we're just fostering the same ideals that got us here to begin with.

Diversification for the sake of diversification is counterprotective towards the goals of any organization. 

I respect your point of view and I can understand where you're coming from. I will only clarify my point so there's no misunderstanding on these two points referenced above. 

Correcting a previous wrongdoing is simply correcting a wrongdoing. Name whatever marginalized group that has been victimized here; whether it's someone who's disabled, homeless, female, LGBTQ, Jewish, Veterans,   etc.

Fixing a problem that is specific to whatever group you name would indeed mean more to them. 

On the last point, diversification for the sake of diversification was NEVER the original point (we're hinting at affirmative action now). The goal was to expand search efforts and get out of that "It's not what you know but who you know" mindset. 

I don't want subpar representation just so I can see myself reflected in places of power. We agree here.  I just don't want diversity to be boiled down to simple representation. The goal should always be to find the best person for the job, even if they don't come in a package you typically associate with job. 

Hopefully that comes across as heartfelt as I feel when I'm typing and not condescending. I believe we are saying the same thing,  I just want my point stressed so there's no room for misunderstanding.

16 minutes ago, Bull Nut said:

I agree with most of what you said... I just feel the op pulled out the race card prematurely. The final staff isn't even assembled, so let's all pump the brakes before making accusations about the coaching staff and its whiteness.

 

And to play devil's advocate and echo what others have said: let's say we hire Deion and most of the staff was black, this thread or one like it wouldn't exist. Which brings up the issue of reverse discrimination towards a predominantly white coaching staff. 

I agree with your first point. My push back on your second point is two fold.

First, If the staff were ALL black  we'd have Wakanda-level media attention, and this thread most definitely would exist.  Deion being a media magnet, mixed with the HBCU -> PWI conversation. If he then went and employed the best and brightest all Black coaching staff.  Oh good lord this place and the internet would get into a frenzy. Mix that with winning or heaven forbid losing and BOOM.

Secondly, historical context can't be ignored here.  We know that whiteness being written into law shaped our country and has had a lasting impact on every aspect of our everyday life.

Assuming we agree with that premise, racial discrimination doesn't carry the same weight in reverse because of the historical baggage that comes with it. We come off as disingenuous when we ignore the impact of legislated segregation. 

Furthermore, affording opportunities that would normally go to groups in power by default, to overly qualified but previously disenfranchised groups, isn't discrimination, it's restorative practice. 

So to haphazardly say "If we did this in reverse the world would be in an uproar..." is disconcerting, because the only way you can come to that conclusion is to ignore all context. 

*my apologies if my logic train is off the tracks right now. I'm exhausted but can't sleep.

I understand all too well what the original post was talking about. I'm sure once some of you step back and stop being intentionally obtuse, you can see the optics that inspired the original post.

Going from hypothetically getting Deion to Golesh is jarring for many reasons, percieved ethnicity included. 

CAG talked about having specific people in mind to hire if/when he got his first job. If he picks people he felt closely aligned with that ran in his coaching circle, it's not a far stretch to see how his circle could potentially lack black and brown coaches. 

Ethnicity matters to those impacted by it. America literally legislated and enforce whiteness. Every aspect of life has been impacted by that, sports included. You can't simply update the laws and ignore the inequities created by the original moral shortcomings. 

We as a collective, need to get out of the habit of attempting to shout down voices that share an opinion that differs from our own. Your perspective is your reality, just as my perspective is my reality. 

I can tell you that my perspective/experience as a black man graduating from our PWI most likely differs from your own. It's jarring being 'the only' anything. Whether that's in a place of power, on staff,  in a place of worship, or in a class room. It is really awkward.

Then mix that with trying to explain to good natured people, who harbored no ill will, that they say and do things that are troubling, only to be told that you are creating a problem that wouldn't exist if you just would be quite and compliant... Always remember that your truth isn't THE truth. 

The original poster may have pinched a nerve, but they're not simply trying to provoke some of you. Looking at the history of the sport when it comes to race relations would really help some of you start to shift your perspective. 

Side note: It's not lost on me how quickly this thread started to resemble a Facebook or Twitter comment section discussing the little mermaid... 

After the initial shock has worn off,  I'm officially rooting for him. He's not what I expected or hoped for,  but I'm hoping he's exactly what this university needs. 

I get the fact that we are hurt that we didn't get him, but some of the reasoning you all are using to cope with the loss is wild. 

No one wins at Colorado. If he doesn't, he's no different than anyone else. If he does though...

I just wanted SOMETHING to be excited about again. I didn't want to have to wait and see what someone might do. Potential scares me right now. There wasn't one head coach that we could poach? 

2 minutes ago, USFBulls12 said:

Playing with my emotions  

2 minutes ago, TheUpperHand said:

Exactly. We should all cross our fingers that we get 3 more years of a flaccid white bread good ole boy South Carolina mumble mouth.

Let it be known that the last two black head coaches we had did world's better than their counterparts. IJS lmbo

47 minutes ago, Brad said:

Would have been great to call off discussions with DS and watch him melt down like Einhorn/Finkle.  Call him out on his ********.  I would have.

Wasn't Prime interested in the job last opening? We only rejected him so he could get more coaching experience right??? So I assume we couldn't know that he wasn't just as interested in the job as he was before. 

I was always torn with this. I obviously graduated from a PWI. My PWI. I believe Deion showed that big things are possible. He showed that success is possible for any former NFL player at an HBCU. He's not the only former player who can take their talents to an HBCU and make a difference with visibility and finances.