Bull94

Bulliever,

Thanks for the info. I just want people to realize the ranking of the recruit isn't always as important as the character of the recruit.

Personally, I thought BB underachieved.

Kelvin barely remained academically eligible for a semester. Although it probably didn't hurt to take a flier on him, I think Seth would even admit he was a longshot. Probably why most schools pass on this type of kid.

Some of these kids are not cut out for college. No matter how high a ranking they receive.

Baker hurts a little. He had tons of upside. I'll trust CRM on that one.

Who do you think had a better ranking coming out of high school: Chris Rix or MB? Alot of this ranking stuff is subjective. It's what you do with your potential talent that matters.

UNC and UConn players are no better image wise than USF players. Rasaad McCants, Khalid El-Amin, and many others were thugs... problem is... when you're a thug that is winning, things get swept under the rug... when you're a thug that is floating above .500, your actions get magnified. Roy Williams said McCants is the most confused individual he has ever coached... McCants called playing at UNC like being stuck in a prison. Khalid El-Amin... hmm... should we even go there with the player of the year? Hell... UConn's coaches are constantly in the press for one thing or another... they are a bunch of whiners and hooker lovers!

TLVS,

You're definitely right about sweeping things under the rug. Winning makes everything look prettier.

I didn't phrase that correctly. I didn't mean class as in image wise but rather class as in talent level.

The only way I could see USF picking up a top 150 recruit is if he lived close to Tampa and wanted to stay close to home and/or had academic issues or character issues that a more established program might not be willing to take a chance on.

Those were the type that a very good recruiting SG could bring in. Borderline guys.

I think our new coach is going with a completely new philosophy. Nothing wrong with that but it will take time to impliment. Maybe he will take a shot on one of these types but it doesn't seem to fit his style.

There is a risk-reward associated with these guys. Sometimes they are not worth trying to build a team around. McCants was ranked #4 in the country. Brown was probably near the bottom of the top 150. McCants was worth taking a shot on. Brown on the other hand...

Geez, stop changing your argument.  I don't give a c--p about what either of them did for USF.  You said that top 100 talent wouldn't come to this university.  I'm proving a point that yes they will come to the university.  I don't know how much simpler to make this.

Why do you post on this board??.  You talk about the university that we all obviously love like we're some podunk tiny school in the middle of nowhere who can't even begin to dream of recruiting top players.  You obviously haven't been following this program very long or know what type of talent we've had here.

Beastie,

Sorry if I upset you. I didn't mean to suggest USF is some podunk school in the middle of nowhere. Only that we have not put 1/10 the effort or money it takes to build an elite basketball program. The problems run much deeper than CRM's recruiting.

The top players Greenie recruited were all from the area and suspect characters to say the least. I'm sure the top schools in the country would not even consider taking a shot on Brown, Waldon, etc. Headcases one and all.

I think recruit rankings are overrated. Greenie was supposedly a god when it came to recruiting and that was the best he could do. We tried the me first superstar approach. I'm willing to try the "team" approach now.

Bringing in high ranked, borderline headcases didn't work for us. We might not ever be able to bring in the type of class guys Duke, UNC, UCONN etc bring in. We certainly shouldn't expect it now.

Maybe after we have a nice arena and we bring in 19,000+ fans per game. By the way we pay our coach like we are some podunk school in the middle of nowhere. Try and give him some respect for working hard for peanuts.

I'm sure you do everything in your power to support USF basketball. Season tickets, donations, fan gear, etc. I appreciate that. One day hopefully we'll be able to say we were there when everyone gave up on USF basketball.

Remember the old days with Seth's big time recruits. Read on

http://www.stpetersburgtimes.com/News/110801/Sports/Brittian_third_USF_pl.shtml

Turkey,

All I wanted was some proof. Maybe an old article stating this as fact. Not a recollection.

No doubt Baker and Waldon. Baxter I would disagree. Maybe Jackson and Brown. Look how long Brown lasted. Seth was known for recruiting primaddonna head cases. Borderline qualifiers that might pan out.

I bet most of these guys wouldn't have come here except for the fact it was close to home and their grades were suspect and Greenie was the only one willing to take a risk.

Maybe CRM is looking for team players. Not me first type of guys. Look how all the "good" recruiting Seth did worked out for us. 2 of his best, Jackson and BB, played together for years and did nothing for this program.

It's probably an insult to group Seth's top 100 with those other guys you consider top recruits.

Diarra was rated the #26 center by Rivals. Look how well that has panned out. No offense but the guy stinks. S Jones is better and he wasn't rated. Ratings don't mean everything.

Guess how many Rivals rated recruits BC has had in the last 3 years? 1 same as us. Hasn't hurt them any.

Would I like to get these guys? Absolutely. Realistically though no matter who our coach is odds are we aren't going to.

Harvey,

Why don't you come up with the extra $750k to bring Calipari in? I'm sure he would bring his thugs with him to the NBE.

Instead of always criticizing the current regime, why don't you come up with some solutions. You don't want to give CRM the chance to rebuild a program from the ground up then what do you suppose we do?

Greenie couldn't do anything for us in the CUSA and he left for a better paying ($170k more + incentives) job. He couldn't do the job here in a lesser conference and he got promoted!!

The assistant from Florida wouldn't touch this job. Should we fire CRM and hire a nobody? Maybe a high school coach.

What big name are you going to bring in to run this program and recruit for less pay than some assistants make. We barely pay as much as Cleveland State.

Support who we have or go support someone else.

Kelvin Brown comes to mind immediatly as another top 100 recruit.  I'm not the recruiting guru but I'm sure Baker, Waldon, and Jackson fit this criteria.  It's been posted here before.  It may have something to do with them being local but I am proud enough of my university to EXPECT to get the local studs.

I agree he didn't take us to where we wanted to be but my point was that IT IS possible to get these guys to come here.

Kelvin Brown? Do a search on him see what it comes up with. Troubled, kicked off, sat for disciplinary reasons. Did you see who was in his class? Swift. If you had to choose which player would do more for the team based on recruiting rankings you would have said Brown. Now tell me who did more for USF basketball? Brown or Swift?

I believe Bobby K won all three before Greenie ever won an NCAA game or beat a top 25 team with his multiple top 150 recruits.

CRM was not left with "crap"  He was left with much better players than he currently has.  He chose to purge what he felt were bad apples rather than compromise one iota.  This is the year 2005, you aren't going to build a competitive D1 college program without a few bad apples.  Ask UCF's George O' Leary.   Coaches have had to deal with bad attitudes since the beginning of time.  Coaching requires flexibility and the ability to deal with opinions other than those similiar to your own.  CRM cannot and will not.  Coaches have taken over programs with less and done more.  Heck, if CJL had the same philosophy as CRM our beloved pride and joy football team may have gone 0-11 too...

Tell that to Bobby Knight. I believe he has won 3 Nat Champs his way. Sound basketbal, team before player. I believe if CJL were more disciplined, we would have won more games. We certainly wouldn't lead the NCAA's in penalties every year.

I believe ALL of those names among several others listed were in fact ranked in the top 150.  He was a good recruiter and brought a good deal of talent to USF.  IT IS possible to get better players than what we have coming in.  Noone expects MCD AA's but we expect better.

Any proof of this? Top 150 players in the country? Several others? I thought he was a good recruiter but that doesn't win you anything. BB was from Lakeland, Altron from Sarasota, Leather from St Pete. Could this have factored in their decisions?

dabull,

I'm sure the players appreciate the fact that you make that drive to come see them as much as I appreciate it as a fan. Sometimes it can be downright difficult watching them play.  

Penders is an excellent coach. He coached at Texas so I think he has connections in the area. Mac moved from a different geographical area. I believe we tried to get the assistant from Florida but he wanted no part of this job.

If you look at Houston's roster, most of the contributing players are Juniors with a senior leading scorer and a soph. I'm not sure he gutted the program like CRM did. I imagine that if we had B-MO around we might be about at their level.  He has 3 recruits and only the soph 2nd leading scorer contributes.

The BE will be a huge challenge and probably will be a rocky road for sometime. Anyone believing we can find a coach to come in and compete (recruiting wise or record wise) in the BE right away is somewhat delusional. Especially when we are hiring on the cheap.

We are the only team in the NBE to have never been in the Final Four!! We only make the tourney every other decade. How do you sell that to recruits?

I think the only way we will build a competetive team is to do it with role players and maybe a superstar every once in awhile and most importantly solid fundumental coaching. We will never win anything on talent alone.

Markey Mark,

Syracuse holds over 30,000 screaming fans for basketball games. They have been to many final fours and have won a Nat Champ. That's an easy sell to recruits. Most of their players come from the NE. Heck if you asked any top 100 recruit where they would rather play Syracuse or USF what do you think their answer would be?

We can't expect the same. Not now. CRM is rebuilding the program from the ground up. I expect it to only get better. Until he shows that he has hit his limits(i.e. Greenie not being able to get over the hump and get us into NIT or NCAA in years) then I think we need to give him a chance.

I like his philosophy and coaching style. I'm sure CRM is doing everything he can to improve this program.

Markey Mark,

You honestly believe that CRM should be able to recruit the top class in the BE??? Do you believe it is possible for any coach to do that at USF??? Put Calhoun or Boheim in this same situation and I would bet anything they wouldn't be able to recruit even a class in the top half of the BE. I want some of what you're smoking!!

We are lucky to be smack dab in the middle of the hotbed for college football recruiting. Location is everything as far as football is concerned. Let's see Leavitt recruit the same top class in Syracuse. It has nothing to do with his ability to recruit and everything to do with location. Florida is a football mecca.

The facilities alone give Leavitt a huge advantage over CRM!! All CJL has to say is come play for me in one of the nicest NFL stadiums in the country. CRM promises them that we will replace the bulbs in the scoreboards some time soon and not to worry about the 900 fans. They don't make much noise anyway.

Turkey,

I doubt many if any of those names listed were considered a top 100 recruit in the country. Did you see where the bottom of the top 150 go? They go to places like Wake Forest, Alabama, and Gonzaga not USF. Besides top recruits don't always make for good team players. Just ask Billy D up in G-ville about that. Half of those guys chose USF because of the closeness to home.

What is wrong with CRM trying to build a "team"? It seems to work well in the NFL for the Pats. No real superstars just pieces of a puzzle that work well together. We never saw that with Seth's teams. CRM is a much better floor coach in my opinion. I am pretty excited about seeing CD progress. He looks like he could be real good with a little confidence. Teams are built with role players not superstars.

Jimmy B is a good guy. Never blamed him for leaving to concentrate on Track when he knew team would be rebuilding. Suprised he didn't do it before the season started.

Beastie,

I wouldn't expect much more than that when rebuilding a program from the ground up.

Look at Providence. They were supposed to compete for the BE crown and they only have 1 win in conference. They should be disappointed. This was the year they were building towards.

I don't think CRM is looking for instant results but I know we would have more wins if our 2nd leading scorer from a year ago was playing.

Did you see the STL game? They looked like the walking dead. Half of them probably should have been in the infirmary. It happens. Get over it. It was an exception not the rule.

We'll probably never get a game with ND. Who cares. If FSU, UF, or Miami want to play in Tampa then they should have to play the Bulls. That is our home stadium. If they want to treat their local Alums to a game then play USF. I think we would have no problem selling those out. If they want to treat it as a neutral site game and split tickets and revenue so be it. Do whatever it takes to get them here.

beastie,

I'd be willing to bet the Sundome ranks near the bottom when comparing BE facilities. How about our attendance? Even in Greenie's heyday it probably doesn't measure up with the bottom of the BE numbers.

How many top 150 recruits did Greenburg bring in while he was here? And more importantly what did he do with them? The bottom 5 of the top 150 according to rivals are headed to UCLA, Rutgers, Wake Forest, Gonzaga, and Alabama. Do you honestly believe that CRM should be able to recruit against these basketball rich schools?

Greenburg left. Some of you need to get over it. He makes $170k + incentives more than CRM. Break out your checkbook and bring your savior back. I think he gave us everything he had. Horrible floor coach- decent recruiter.

 We brought in one of the top coaches from a lesser conference and are paying him peanuts to do the impossible. He is much better at getting the talent out of team players.I think he will be able to build a "team" with time.

Look at how many probowlers there are on the NE Pats. Not a lot of superstars there but they have a great coaching philosophy that preaches team first. It took Belichick some time but he built a winner. I bet the Browns wish they still had him as a head coach. Maybe some of you should be more realistic with your expectations.

http://rivalshoops.rivals.com/viewrank.asp?SID=910&Year=2005&ra_key=768

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/college/news/2003/05/30/bkb_coaching_salaries/

Turkey,

Now that you have uncovered our problem (CRM's recruiting) how do you suppose we fix it?

Do you honestly think it is easy to recruit to USF? "Hey kid, I know you are a top 100 b-baller why not come play for me in a decrepit arena, in front of 900 silent fans, and get your head handed to you by the top teams in the BE."

Yeah I could see kids jumping at the chance!!

The man isn't even paid as much as some assistants in the league!! I think the guy took a no win job. Odds are he will never be able to compete in the BE even though all the fans are delusional and think he should be bringing in McDonald's All Americans. Why do you think the assistant from Florida didn't want to touch this job? Who do you think we could bring in that would want to be paid lower than half of all D-1 coaches, try to recruit against the top conference in all of basketball, and have his team play in a decrepit arena in front of 900 pissed off fans against some of the top teams in the country? Not many. I for one am willing to give the guy a chance. After all basketball is a team sport and it takes time to build a "team".

How many top high school players would even consider USF regardless of who our coach is?

Gary SJ,

I don't understand. The Gator Bowl goes to the BE #2 or ND?? Their football program is not in now so what difference would that make to the Gator Bowl if their basketball, baseball, olympic sports left the BE? None. The GB is BE vs ACC. Notre Dame has been to 2 GB since 1976. I say let them join 1/2 for football or take your other sports to the ASUN or CUSA. They don't have to play us. Let them play the same 3 teams every year + 1. Pitt, Syracuse, WVU plus one rotating team. Use the one rotating team as their neutral site game. Concessions could be made. Notre Dame is living in the past. They are no longer head and shoulders above everyone else. Kids grow up wanting to go to Miami, OU, USC, FSU, etc before they even think about ND.

I agree Howie. Time to force the issue. The basketball money is good enough for them to split. Why not the football? Let them go play all other sports in the ASUN. See how they like playing in high school gyms. The BE bends over backwards for them and I believe they need the NBE more for all other sports than we need them for football(although it wouldn't hurt us much!!). They could easily work out a situation where they wouldn't give up any of their NBC TV money. I'm sure they could come up with a compromise on the bowl revenues. How hard could it be to add one more BE football game??

Why is ND so high and mighty? They've done nothing in 25 years. Why don't they join the BE as a 1/2 football member? All they need to do is add a 4th game. Maybe we could get Army to take the other 4. I say the league gives them an ultimatum. Join as a 1/2 member or leave the league in all other sports. mini bowl game?? How arrogant. Quit living in the past.

dabull,

I like some of those names but what makes you think they can do any better than RMC? It's one thing to recruit and coach against teams that have similar operating budgets  but  let's see them win consistently against teams that spend 10 times the amount on facilities, coaches, etc. Look at the difference in what goes into our basketball program and that of Cinci or Loiusville. We haven't given him a fair chance.  I think I saw where Utah's guy gets paid $500k base .Almost double that of RMC's. Zags guy probably gets paid just as much. Plus they would lose all their pipelines by moving to the southeast. The NE guys seem interesting but again what have they accomplished that RMC wasn't able to at WMU? I  attended Rider for my first 2 years before graduating from USF. They looked sharp on the deuce the other day. When was the last time they went dancing? All they have to do is win the MAAC. How about Drexel? They are barely .500. I say beggars can't be choosers. Give the man a fair chance. I bet we could get Calipari. He would want to coach in the BE over CUSA. We only have to come up with $1 mil plus put up with the thugs he puts on the floor. The arrest sheets would make interesting reading.

Pull out your checkbooks, darksiders!!

You get what you pay for. I think all of the dark siders might want to double or triple their donations. That is if they donate anything at all. They don't seem to be very supportive of anything USF. They definitely aren't very realistic.

I am happy with the way things are progressing. Will we ever be a competitive hoops team year in and year out in the Big East? Probably not. Our coach is the lowest paid, our facilities are probably some of the worst in the league and we have absolutely no basketball tradition.  Hell, the coach that most wanted to run out of town is now making $170 k + perks per year more than the current one. He couldn't get us into the tourney and he actually got a raise!! Does that mean that we won't have a team that suprises some occasionally? No. Look at Miami for example. Not a perrenial powerhouse but able to put together a team every 5 or 6 years to make a run. This is what we should expect. One year, every 5 or 6, where everything falls into place and we  make some noise. We will be playing in the best conference ever assembled for basketball. Get used to some tough years unless you're willing to donate the brand new state of the art $25 million basketball facility that holds 25,000 screaming fans, the private lear jet, and the $2.0 million a year for a coach that will attract the biggest recruits in the country.  You get what you pay for. Time to put up or shut up. I'm behind CRM all the way and I'm glad he was willing to take a chance on what seems to be a no win situation.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/college/news/2003/05/30/bkb_coaching_salaries/

If they aren't 100% sold out then I will be pissed. I donate $2 k per year and only have one ticket this year and they told me that I couldn't get in the lower bowl without sitting behind the basket. I would get a better seat if I took that money and signed up for classes and attended as a student. There have been plenty of games that the student section was not even close to being full but I still sit in the 2nd level by the visiting teams fans (it isn't much fun to hear them talk smack when our team plays as poorly as they have lately). They should let the fans down to fill the seats at half. Starting with the donors and then allow the students.

Let's see..SG has beaten the bottom 3 teams in the ACC. Virginia, Clemson, and NC State are a combined

4-16. Real impressive. I'll give him the GT upset but they look like they are overrated as well at 3-3 in conference. Wait until the spring swoon he is so known for. he can't finish..never could. same old seth. glad he moved on. we should have kicked him out long ago.

Why doesn't anyone think a split ticket is a possibility? I say force ND to play 4 BE games a year. Let them keep their NBC deal(2 home on NBC;2 away for BE TV). If they go to a BCS bowl then let them keep the proceeds. Allow them to go to a BE sponsored bowl only if they split money with conference. Don't give them any TV money or a share of any BE bowl money. Invite Army to take the other 4 games. It would definitely lend some credibility to the conference without costing the BE much. Force ND to take the deal or let their other sports go play in the A-10.

As far as USF is concerned, I think you might want to consider potential. We have hardly had a chance to get our feet wet as far as D-1 a football is concerned. Bowls and big wins in the past don't matter. I think the BE sees what they did for a Miami program that was almost extinct back in the 80's. The past is o.k. for Louisville. You definitely would not be considered a powerhouse.  Look at  the number of national champs in the last 25 years  from the state of Florida compared to the number from Kentucky. I think you'll see why we were invited.

I say let Army and Navy split a spot. They could each play 4 conference games. I know they are opposed to joining a conference but if they only had to play 4 games out of a 12 game schedule then they might consider it (if there was an incentive-say a 1/18 share of bowl revenues). Or maybe try and get ND and Army to split a spot. Force ND into it or kick them out of all the other sports. With 8 OOC games they could easily play all of their traditional rivals.

I was able to sneak one in. I don't know how because mine crashed too. Here are 2 he mentions us in.

Rich(Tampa,Fl): Ryan, How about the University of South Florida? Dawsey has some talented, young receivers for you to work with not to mention the opportunity to start for 4 years and play the likes of Miami. Why not create tradition instead of following it? Imagine taking a program that has been around for less than 10 years to a BCS bowl and possible NC. Talk about being THE MAN

Ryan Perrilloux: (1:30 PM ET ) South Florida has an alright chance, I really just like the receiving Coach Duffey a lot. That's really what's keeping them on my list.

Dan New York, NY: Ryan, Which are your final schools?

Ryan Perrilloux: (1:34 PM ET ) Miss. State, South Florida, LSU, Texas, Florida State and Miami.