Bull94

If you ever call Ari my brother again I will hunt you down.  

Don't try and paint me as a "win at all costs" guy, b/c I'm not. I just think there's a lot of hypocrites in here that will accept almost anything that gets us into a BSC bowl; yet since they don't care about bb as much, they put on a "holier than thou" attitude towards Huggy.

My point is simple. Some kids are given brains, some are given athletic talent, some are given brains, looks, and athletic talent (Me..LOL).

Huggins gives the dumb kid with talent and attitude problems a chance and usually makes him a winner. He's done a very good job of that. He treats his players like family; they're always over at his house etc. He tries hard to instill values in his players. Sometimes this fails, but for the most part it works very well for everyone - the fans, the school, and the players.

If we ever have a football player arrested for **** and another on gun charges, I would expect them to be kicked off the team and kicked out of school. I believe Huggins had this happen to 2 of his players this past year. It goes to show you the quality of character that he recruits. There is a reason why Cincy fired him.

and by the way, all those that don't care whether or not he graduates players, I believe there is a rule  in place starting this year that takes away schollies for poor graduation rates.

 You can honestly say that at least 20 of these teams have minimal budgets at best.  I now for sure that George Mason doesn't have any money -- and they don't even have a football team.  Now if you can build a basketball program at Iona -- you can build one at USF.

Enough with the excuses.

-------

 1.    Gonzaga

 2.Bucknell (1)   16-3    

 3. Northern Iowa 18-3  

 4. Southern Illinois 16-5  

 5. Wichita State 17-5  

 6. Creighton 14-5  

 7. Wisconsin-Milwaukee 15-4  

 8. George Mason 15-5  

 9. Montana 16-3  

10. Western Kentucky 15-5  

11. UNC-Wilmington 16-6  

12. Old Dominion 15-6  

13. Winthrop 13-5  

14. Ohio 11-5  

15. Iona 15-3  

16. Akron 14-4  

17. Kent State 14-6  

18. Hofstra 14-4  

19. Northwestern State 13-6  

20. UC-Irvine 12-8  

21. Pacific 14-6  

22. Buffalo 14-5  

23. VCU 14-5

24. South Alabama 14-5  

25. Northern Arizona 15-6

what conferences do these schools play in?

do you think they would have the same success in the BE?

why don't you start listing NAIA schools and how they can win by busing to their games on their small budgets?

this is like comparing a minor league team's record with that of a major league team.

sure their payroll is lower and they get more wins in the minors but would that translate to them being successful at the major league level?

What a joke.  So every team that has success has a huge budget....riiiiight.  I guess we had that huge budget back in 1992?  WTH happened to that budget?  Did you stop making your multimillion dollar donations.  Funny that half of the posts you've made on this board have been about how much you donate and how little everyone else donates.   :  

we were in the sunbelt. you think we should have the same success in the BE that we had in the sunbelt on the same budget?

Everyone complains about coaches, recruiting, marketing, athletic field conditions, on campus stadiums, etc., etc. It all takes money. I'm just wondering what they are doing to be a part of the solution. I could care less if they give $50 a year as long as they are making an effort.

Keep complaining beastie. that will surely solve our underfunded basketball program's problems.

St. Johns is in NYC and they play in MSG; I'm not going to pretend to know their exact situation but you can imagine it costs them substantially more to field a team and play; I think they're a poor comparison.

I agree that football is the focus here, and it should be to some extent; it's the best shot we have at national respect.

As for money; I'm sort of a hypocrite. I'd like to give more money to the bb program; but can't justify doing it when it could go to sick kids, cancer research etc...But, I'd be a lot more generous to the bb program if I thought it was moving in the right direction.

I live in reality, and reality is that CRM isn't going anywhere this year. I think Woolard will give him next year, and I've said it many times -- if CRM can go .500 in the BE next year (I know it's a lot to ask); sign him to a long term deal. Winning 5 or 6 BE games next year is not enough improvement to keep him around, imo.

Rueb

all deserving charitable causes but if alumni don't donate and buy tickets then our programs will never be able to compete at this level.

Unfortunately,It sounds like,from another thread, LDD doesn't contribute anything to the Bulls Club. He seems very passionate about the state of our hoops program.  I just wish more alumns would realize how far $20 a month could go in building our athletics programs. numbers add up. I don't think it's too much to ask if they expect a winner.

I think if he gets 5-6 wins you give him one more year. If he wins 8 then an extension. we play in a tough conference. if he can't win 5-6 then he is gone.

have a pregame tailgate with $5 all you can drink keg beer and cheap food for students.

Agreed. Also, it seems like no one really wants the ball in their hands when it counts, Villanova game illustrated this in my opinion. Lots of good defense, but we passed on a lot of open looks...maybe it's a lack of confidence, maybe it's a lack of ability; or a combination of the two.

Bull94 - No need for name calling; a battle that you'd likely lose anyway, give it up. And you pick out three teams on that list and give their record this season...good point, fart. I think Ari's point was that they have historically better programs without a big budget. Keep on preaching the "no-money" argument, which sounds less compelling each time I hear it.

I still would like to know where all the money came to build our football program...I admit ignorance on this issue. It seems like we could pull money out of that imaginary hat to help our bb program.

Rueb

He pointed out those 3 teams at the bottom of his response to prove a point. I called him on them. I'd also like him to prove his knowledge of their budgets if he is claiming they are smaller.

I know for a fact that St John's budget is about $5 mil more than ours and they don't have a football program to fund. I'd be willing to bet Gonzaga's is substantially higher.

You guys don't seem to think playing in a lesser conference provides these teams with more wins and therefore more tourney appearances? that's like comparing little league records to the majors. Why don't we start listing NAIA schools with better records?

and don't tell me the A10 was better than the CUSA we played in with cincy, UofL, Marquette, DePaul, UNCC, memphis.

I'm not on the inside to tell you where the money came from but I'm willing to bet it did divert some of the funds for the hoops program. I think everyone here realizes that we are commited to the football program first and foremost and it was the only reason we were invited to the BE.

I'm sure you're from the real world, reub and believe that money makes the world go round. if you honestly believe we can compete with less money then perhaps I can drop my donation. good reasoning.

How about you and you cohorts pull money out of your imaginary hats to help fund our bball program? why is it you expect others to do your heavy lifting? you're starting to sound like beastie.

St Johns

Gonzaga

Santa Clara

Utah State

Virginia Commonwealth

Detroit

Dayton

Richmond

UNC Wilmington

St. Louis

Nevada

UNC Charlotte

Georgia Southern

St. Bonnie

George Washington

St. Joes

Ohio

Temple

Providence

None of them are Big Budget Programs and ALL of them are better year in and year out then us.  It has NOTHING to do with money.  Its coaching, recruiting, commitment to winning.

I mean look at team like Richmond -- or St. Joes -- St. Bonnie - Dayton -- Gonzaga.  

Started out with NOTHING.  I mean what can you offer a kid to come to St. Bonnie.  Cold ass weather -- pale and fat white women.   and a conference that most people can't name more then 3 teams.

You just don't get it.

You don't get it, moron.

St Bonnies is 6-13 (0-8).

how is that year in and year out? You don't think we would have a better record if we played in the A-10? maybe we should go back to the sunbelt so we can win some games for you?

St Joe's 9-9 (3-5)

Dayton 11-11 (3-5)

and if you think Gonzaga's basketball budget is less than ours then you are smoking some good stuff. Do you honestly think their coach is paid less than Mac?

We all know these kids are leaving their heart on the floor.  I feel bad for them.  It looks like they are scared out there. They have no chemistry.  The best players on our team would be role plyers on the other squads.  

Am I looking for W's? Yes

How many? More than 1

Why? To not be mentioned on national television as a joke.  

LongDong makes a great point even if we were all injured we should be beating Bethune cookman and texas corpus whoever.  So if it is not Macs fault then it is the departments fault.  Someone needs to do something.  If we keep losing and having seasons like this the idea of a 6 year rebuild will turn into a 20 year term.  

What are some ideas you guys (not on my side) have? How can we get better?

and give me an idea besides alum donating money and fans showing up tp games.  

I am all ears!

you need to give Mac 1 maybe 2 more years to prove he can get this program headed in the right direction. If things fall his way (i.e. no injuries) and we can't reasonably compete  by the end of year 2 then he goes.

It takes time to establish recruiting ties and convince kids that USF is willing to make the sacrifice to build a winner. can't expect him to do it overnight.

interested to see how some of these transfers will work out. If Lute Olson liked Jesus, there has got to be something to that kid.

I can respect BigEastBeats point of view.  Well spoken.

Budgets, Football conferences have nothing to do with our situation. NOTHING!

Their are teams small market teams everywhere that are able to put decent teams on the floor year and year out.

But BigEastBeasts -- that was well articulated.

budgets have everything to do with how successful programs are. just ask Texas and their $80 mil budget. Think their porgrams could have the same success  on our budget? do you think coach K from Duke would come coach us for Mac's salary?

what does  the size of a market have to do with success?

I agree. good post BEB.

Do you think you would be kept around at UF if you had the exact same circumstances and the exact same record.

Foley would can your ass half way through the season.

Do you think Leonard Hamilton at FSU could go 6-23?

He is trying his ass off to keep his tenure going and they are like 12-7.

Its apathy and a lack of committment to what is most important in athletics.  WINNING.!

I bet our hoops budget is right there with UF !! funny stuff. Plus the fact that they play in a football conference and not the best basketball conference of all time. great comparison.

He's only halfway thru after 3 years!  Tdude hasn't won a CONFERENCE game this year .

Tell me one coach who gets SIX years to rebuild.  Maybe that's part of the problem.  The Mac-ites wanna give him 6 friggin years to get a conference win.  Give me a break.  

BTW I posted as Mr. Perspect from home,  meant to say Big 12 not Big 10.  I was so embarrassed when I heard ESPN commentators say that about this program.  People are laughing at us.   :'(

what a shocker, it was beastie posting an anti-Mac thread. By the way it's the big 10 who has a higher RPI. you had it right the first time. the big 12 sucks.

not that we couldn't tell it was you with your lack of facts concerning cincy again.

get that donation check in the mail beastie. we're going to need it in order to buy out Mac and hire that top notch coach you want.

So where did we get the money to fund our start-up football program??  

Was it all from donors?

I don't know. probably.

You don't think the Athletic Administration may have neglected basketball in order to get football started though, huh?

AA has made a greater commitment to football. Our football coach now gets paid 4-5 times what our hoops coach gets paid. look at most successful basketball programs and I bet that's not the case.

i.e. Duke, Kentucky, Memephis, Cincy (with Thuggins), etc.

we are a football school in one of the greatest basketball conferences of all time.

Bull94 blame it on everyone except the coach.  You know how you get students and alumni to donate and attend games.  You put a product out on the florr that can at least compete.  If MAC is such a great man, like you claim wouldnt u think some alum would invest in him.  I know a retired professor at USF from when I worked at Tampa Palms.  We spoke USF bball all the time.  The main reason he only contributed for his seats and nothing else was the product and the coach.  At the time it was Seth Greenburg and The USF missed free throws, but still I know he would not contribute to this bum.  

Bull94 it is just like anything else, if you put someting worth watching or buying people will buy it.  

And whats with all the excuses like, its going to take us a few years to get good.  Thats BS get a good coach in here some recruits and lets shake some things up.  I seen a lot crazier things than that. Memphis didnt make the tourney last year, I think they are 4 in the nation now.  Come on, this guy would rather blame himself for USF losing over  the the coach, AD, and players.  We can fill every seat in teh house vs UCONN and get blown out. Has nothing to do with us.  Make a good program and "we" will come!

Herm - **** it feels good to be a gangster

I believe Memphis' coach is paid close to $1.5 million dollars a year.

If YOU come up with the $1.2 million difference then I say can Mac and bring in Caliparri. I'm not sure how much a retired proffesor donates to the program but I assume it's something less than $1.2 mil.

I'm not making excuses. I'm taking responsibility as all donors and alumni should do. This is our program and it stinks because it is underfunded. It is underfunded because of us.

It has everyhting to do with us Herman. I thought you would understand that and not try and project blame elsewhere.

It's not as if Mac walked into a top 25 program that goes to the tourney every year. We were mediocre at best in the CUSA and now you want us to be top notch in what could be the best basketball conference of all time in our first year? laughable.

Maybe if the donors and alumni stepped up and funded this program we could be competitive. Until then we should expect to get what we pay for.

Baylor won folks.  It's just us now.  Truly, truly sad.  THE FASTER ROBERT MAC IS GONE THE SOONER WE CAN RETURN TO MEDIOCRITY.  'CUZ RIGHT NOW HE HAS RUN THIS PROGRAM INTO THE GROUND

Cinci was in a worse situation than we are and they mopped the floor with us.  We're an embarrasment.

ESPN was talking about how the BE was the best conference in the nation, but the Big10 "had better RPI ONLY BECAUSE SOUTH FLORIDA IS WEIGHING DOWN THE BE"  wE'RE A NATIONAL EMBARRASMENT.

exactly how is cincy in a worse position than USF? because they had 3 Mr Basketballs from3 different states on their team and now they only have 2? because they had a player arrested for ****? or the player arrested on gun charges?

Our fans and supporters are the embarrasment. I'm not sure anything will change if we fire this coach. It's the problem of having an underfunded program. That resposibility lies with donors and fans (us) not coaches and players. I'm sure if you looked at the rankings of coaches pay, recruiting budgets, travel expenses, etc., ours would be at the bottom. The results for what we invest in this program do not surprise me.

Our last coach left for 3 times the pay even though he accomplished absolutely nothing in a much lesser conference here. I think he realized it is a dead end job without fan or financial support.

Im not here to compare NY sports with tampa sports.  And if I were you would have no chance idiot.  

The Jets won a superbowl, the superbowl that made the superbowl a special event.  The one where you believed ion the underdog with Joe Namath, you know how many teams in the NFL never own a Superbowl.. A lot.  (Idiot comment #1)

The Giants 1990-91 and 1986-87 - Thats two how many have the Bucs won? Who was the disgrace team in the tangerince uniforms for all those years and will not be good again for a long tim! (idiot comment #2)

The Knicks (1970 and 1973 world champs)  I know a long time ago, but theres a salary cap in the NBA so NY cant buy everyone like us real businessmen do (spend $) and win it all.  But still how many championships has Tamps basketball team won? Oh wait.... you already know (Idiot comment #3)

The Islanders (1980, 1981, 1982, 1983)  Count those up, or are you unable to.  Thats 4 years in a row.  Considered one of the best teams of all time.  A Dynasty.  (Idiot comment #4)

The Rangers (1994, 1940, 1933, 1928) 1993 one of the most heart felt Stanley Cups of all time with Mark Messier winnig it "for the people of New York"  Still gets press! Did you watch sportscenter the other night when they honored him.  How many stories about the lightning will be on sportscenter 10 years after their victory? None (didiot comment #5)

The Mets - 1969 - 1986

The opnly team in the world you can ask anyone in the country no matter where they are from and if they have some sort of sports knowledge they can name about 10 guys on the 1986 Mets team.  Most liked team of all time.  Doc, Strawberry, Mookie, Gary Carter, Keith Hernandez, jessie orosco, Ray Knight, Tim Tueffel, Lenny Dyskra, wally backman.  I cant even name 3 guys on the Devil Rays right now (sarcastic) but most people cannot.  (Idiot comment #6)

2 of 3 major sports (Idiot comment #7, there are 4 major sports moron.)

Owned by a Tampa businessman?  Steinbrenner is from Ohio and had a bus.down in Tampa and in NY and in various other states.  (Idiot comment #8)

Wow stick to USf sports, its the ONLY topic you might be able to spar minds with me.  But you still are an Idiot for your comments on the program anyway.  

Herm - calling peoples stupididty from now on!

You said NY fans don't accept losing.

Funny looks like most of your examples prove that they don't mind losing for 20+ years.

Dude the NJ Jets won a super bowl before I was even born and I'm old! Before the Bucs inception!

2 of 3 took into consideration that TB does not have a basketball team. By the looks of the Knicks for the past 30+ years neither do they.

How many of these championships were won in the past 20 years?  

You bash Mac for not being able to put together a winning team in 2 1/2 years and yet you ACCEPT and make EXCUSES for your NY teams inability to win anything in 20 years.

Steinbrenner chooses to live in Tampa.

Obviously you can't compare sports histories when talking NY and Tampa but you stated that NY fans don't accept losing. That's not a fact.

In fact most NY franchise fans have accepted losing for 20+ years. It's been almost 40 years for your N.J. Jets. I guess by those standards Mac has another 34 years for you to accept.

Steinbrenner is hardly a sports genius. He knows what it takes to win and that is MONEY.

Unfortunately USF doesn't have any. We are supposedly a football school in a basketball conference. Get used to it. If the school hasn't made the commitment to bball by now then I think we may be out of luck. It's all on football to make a name for this school.

I'm sure we could go back to the glory days in the sunbelt and make the tourney every year if that woud please you.

That's funny. You're from NY and you don't accept losing. When's the last time the Jets won anything? How about the Giants? The Knicks? Islanders? Rangers? Mets?

I believe the only team from NY that has won a major championship since the last time a Tampa team has won in 2 of 3 major sports is the Yankees and the only reason is because they are owned by a Tampa businessman. Funny. New yorkers don't accept losing.

Who cares about how many championships either team has won, or how many tourney games they've been to? That doesn't mean squat.  By your logic, Cincy's football team should be much better than ours because they've been to more bowl games.    

Cincy also has the same number of players on their team, playing for an interim head coach.  Mac is a third year coach who still has not had one winning season despite inheriting some darn good players from the prior coach.  This INTERIM coach for Cincy has a .500 club despite losing out on many good recruits due to Huggins' firing..  Again, a team that was in disarray at the end of last season.

The history of a program has alot to do with the type of recruits you bring in. If this were not the case then Dougherty could bring as heralded recruits to FAU as he did to UNC.

Cincy also has 5 seniors and 2 juniors that played a signifigant role in getting them to the 2nd round of the NCAA's last year.

Not only that but I believe I heard on the broadcast last night that they have the Mr Basketball from Kentucky last year as well as Virginia and Ohio. Some have been dismissed due to gun charges and **** charges though.

I guess that is where you get the disarray from??Huggins players being arrested??

Their freshman 3rd leading scorer was a huggins recruit that was Mr Basketball from Kentucky last year. He is the only top 8 scorer that isn't  a junior or senior from last years team.

By the way, I don't think the players Seth left were any where near as good as some of the teams he couldn't  get to the NCAA tourney with, or beat a top 25 team with ,or beat Cincy with all in CUSA in 7 years. and they certainly weren't as good as the players huggins left this year !!

Would you consider our team in disarray if we went 25-8 and lost in the 2nd round of NCAA's to Kentucky? Or if we had Mr Kentucky bball player on the team as a freshman this year? Hardly

Mac's top 3 scorers last year were Seth recruits.   :-/

I think anyone who knows anything knows Seth was a better recruiter than Mac is so the talent was there.

The only thing Cinci's coach did differently was not kicking every talented player off the team because he had a hair out of place.  

And don't kid yourself.  Cincy was in disarray last season as evidenced by our win over them.  

Cincinnatti was hardly in disarray last year. they finished 25-8 and lost to Kentucky in the 2nd round of the NCAA tourney. They have 4 seniors on the team that are in their top 6 scorers this year.

To compare the job these coaches are doing is ridiculous. How about if we compare the way the coaches are performing compared to their own programs histories?

According to Brett:

USF has won exactly one conference championship (Sun Belt) and zero NCAA Tournament games, while Cincinnati has won two national titles, has made six Final Four appearances and won 26 conference titles.

Complain about the coaches and players all you want but the primary responsibility of this programs success, or lack of, falls on the shoulders of the alumni and donors who do/do not support it.

Funny.  UC is in a worse sitruation than we are, with a brand new interim head coach, the same type of injury situation, playing in the same conference yet they are only one game below .500.  

Mac must go.

Funny. I think this guy was left in a much better situation since Huggins did much more in building this program than SG did for ours. I don't think Mac was left with a perenial top 25 program??

Plus this guy is living off of Huggins leftovers. 5 of 7 top scorers this year are seniors. wait until next year.

They probably won't even make BE tourney this year. Imagine that, with the kind of history they have.

UofL needs to get rid of Petino too!! They're 2-6!!

You're comparing a perenial top 25 program with USF!! Hilarious.

So is anyone going to stick to the topic of this thread and shed some light on Simmonds? I know there has to be at least one rational person out there that can post a little blurb about the pro's and con's of the latest addition to the coaching staff.

check out greg's blog for more info.

Could help in landing Rose who plays for him at jefferson. possibly help in landing Garcia next year as one of top passing qb prospects in florida.

http://www.sptimes.com/blogs/usf/

It doesn't matter how awful the offense was, they still won the super bowl with T Dilfer as their QB. Our team is built on D as well.

Baltimore coaches were able to use Dilfer effectively. They didn't ask him to do things he wasn't capable of.

Dungy isn't allowed to touch the offense in Indy. That was his problem here. He had control of his O and wasn't able to get job done.

Maybe JL needs to have no say in our offense. Hire an experienced co-ordinator who isn't under his thumb.

Dilfer won a super bowl with different coaches.

Dungy has not with a "better" QB.

I believe it was our coaches who recruited PJ to play the position. They are the ones ultimately responsible for how our offense performs.

You can't put this on a 20 year old. Coaches need to take responsibility for the ineffectiveness of our offense and QB play.

PJ has been starting at QB for over 2 years now. They should have known he was not the answer to run a pass happy spread offense as soon as they saw him in spring practice the first year he was here. Heck they should have known that by looking at him his senior year in high school where he ran a wing-t offense and never passed the ball.

I agree with Reuben. They did not put him in a position to succeed. Who in their right mind would put PJ in an empty backfield with a 5 wide receiver set?

with the way these two offenses are playing, the final score could be 40-39. I think we get our first BE win tonight.

definitely take the 13.5. that's an unbelievable number considering the way these teams have been playing lately.

5-1 ATS.