CRBULL

I get part of it, I think....

The kid could come here, start from day 1, and be a showcase athlete... Bigger program, and he runs a bigger chance of just being white noise

This was the original statement. That's the point I was referencing that you made by showing the amount of other talent he'd be surrounded by here at USF. USF probably gives him more of a chance to shine individually than Clemson would, but at FAU (which isn't happening), he would be the greatest player in their history and the main attraction from the minute he shows up.

So, as I said, if being the main attraction is his only motivation in picking a school, there are better options than USF. But I think we give him a nice mix of the chance to win along with the chance to stand out from the crowd.

Ah gotcha. Though, he could be the "showcase" at specifically the QB position here!

I get part of it, I think....

The kid could come here, start from day 1, and be a showcase athlete... Bigger program, and he runs a bigger chance of just being white noise

I get it, but if that were the case, why not go to FAU? Even less chance to get lost in the background AND in two years we'll be in the same conference.

Why not? Well, sometimes it helps to have some of the best targets in the country coming out of high school to throw to when you're a QB.

Mike McFarland TE 12 ****

Sean Price TE 7 ****

Andre Davis WR 46 ****

D'vario Montgomery WR 22 ****

Terrence Mitchell CB/WR 12 ****

Hope he digs deep to remember the passion he had for the Bulls, not to mention the good friend and top target he has playing here (Montgomery) and the other highly talented receiving core he'll have.

You just proved my point. If he just wanted to be completely head and shoulders above everyone else on the field around him, there are lesser programs he can choose with much less talent to stand out from.

The competition aspect is just for his position and the amount of playing potential/time/showcase he will have. It's not to be a better athlete than the players surrounding him on his team.

I get part of it, I think....

The kid could come here, start from day 1, and be a showcase athlete... Bigger program, and he runs a bigger chance of just being white noise

I get it, but if that were the case, why not go to FAU? Even less chance to get lost in the background AND in two years we'll be in the same conference.

Why not? Well, sometimes it helps to have some of the best targets in the country coming out of high school to throw to when you're a QB.

Mike McFarland TE 12 ****

Sean Price TE 7 ****

Andre Davis WR 46 ****

D'vario Montgomery WR 22 ****

Terrence Mitchell CB/WR 12 ****

Hope he digs deep to remember the passion he had for the Bulls, not to mention the good friend and top target he has playing here (Montgomery) and the other highly talented receiving core he'll have.

Scout has USF in the lead for Wilder over close 2nd Rutgers. CWT seems to be focusing on immed. help at CB with Willis and now Wilder(good thing, we are thin,thin,thin). Med size Corner 6' 185#.

MD native. Not much interest for the graduating senior in 2010. Comes out of Pierce with a whole new outlook and set of offers. His cover skills are so far from "soft" he would never have made it in the previous administration

Credible ofers include Pitt, UMD, ASU, KU and Rut. Seems like CWT is focused on fixing this CB problem right out of the gate

Thin in experience, but what about our touted underclassmen and the two jucos we signed last year?

Chris Bivins Jr. - So

Kenneth Durden - So

Fidel Montgomery - Jr

Joshua Brown - Jr

Took his sweet time? The first thing he did when he was hired was to start recruiting.You do realize WHEN we hired him right? This guy has been on the job for a little over ONE MONTH. That's why his staff was put together so "late", he was ON THE ROAD recruiting...you make it sound like he put his feet up at the LRS building. And a Top 20 class? You realize we went 3-9 last year right? and 5-7 before that? In a crumbling Big East Conference? With a program running on zero history, the "what have you done for me lately" attitude is tenfold.

Agree that setting up the coaching staff took a reasonable amount of time. On the recruiting, I don't think he was talking about this year and completely agree with 94.

As I pointed out in another thread, the recruiting sites are often wrong and over look talent. Some examples, George Selvie, NR, Justin Blackmon was a 3 star WR, Chris Johnson 1 star, Colin Kaepernick 2 star. The number of high school recruits rated 3 stars and under by these websites that go one to be star college athletes is huge. They also go the other way too, over rating players. That's why its up to the coaching staff to get to rate these players.

+1

This is typical talk from a fan of a team with a crappy class so far. Bottom line is, this class is underwhelming so far. Hopefully, the staff can pick it up soon. Oh, and stars do matter and it's easy to play the exception game when you want to make people feel better.

 

What exactly are you talking about? Who is talking specifically about this class. This was said in response to all the best recruits will be snatched up by the best schools. There are more great athletes than scholarships, you just have to find them. CWT is going to evaluate them himself, not relying on Scout or Rivals, who have been proven WRONG, repeatedly. How about getting on the same page as the rest of us?

This whole thread is related to our current class even if it's not directly stated so. I'm talking about a class that is below average so far and there's no disputing that. I'm sure coach CWT is doing a fine job evaluating talent, but he hasn't had enough time and this class will be average at best because of this. If being on the same page as the rest of you is accepting an average class, then I'll pass. I'm rooting for the guy though and I hope I'm wrong.

 

 

We're, at best, an average program so why wouldn't we be getting, alleged, average recruiting classes .... and besides, what other option do we have other than accepting it??

That is not the mindset this program was built on, nor one it will ever have. Fortunately, like some athletes, we were "born" with intangibles. Winning is all it will take to get this program back on track.

Disagree, look at Boise... Consistent winning is all it takes. We'll have a better schedule than they did, despite the defections.

AW wants a SEC offer- very badly.

Yes, but I believe he has said he wants early playing time and a showcase opportunity more.

AW would commit to UF faster than we would jump to a Big 5 conference if offered.

What makes you say that?

Not too concerned about UF right off the bat. They would want him for a backup to sit for two years while Driskel ran the show. Not to mention the two classes of blue chip QBs they would pull in to compete with him by the time Driskel left. Pretty sure Woulard wants to come in here and make an immediate impact.

A great quote from the senior Holtz: “Your talent determines what you can do. Your motivation determines how much you are willing to do. Your attitude determines how well you do it.â€

We have been lacking in some of these areas, but I don't think talent is the most deficient of the three.

My take: not the prettiest ball, decent accuracy, showed some good throws under pressure, decent runner, lacking touch at times. I give him a B- to B.

"He will beat you with his'n, then turn around and beat you with your'n"

That's my exact point. You can restate it as, "He can beat you with his scheme/system, then he can beat you with your system."

Good players and good coaching is what wins. Not schemes.

I can think of plenty of times when good individual or team efforts have won games for us, but not the system/scheme.

You play the system that your players can play based on their talent and physical limitations, and I don't see the personnel on this team to be a successful "Smash Mouth running team." Maybe after a few recruiting classes... but not now.

I don't think I buy into the logic there. I think if you add motivation/mentality to scheme/system management (not that the scheme system would be static) you have exactly what allows someone like Snyder to go into K State with the talent they have and win like he did. 95% of the time they were the less talented team - exaggerating but you get the idea.

http://insider.espn....d-j-durkin-left

"GAINESVILLE, Fla. – D.J. Durkin has been a valuable member of Florida coach Will Muschamp’s staff, both as a linebackers coach/special teams coordinator and a recruiter. But he’s not going to be around forever.

Durkin is headed for a coordinator’s job, and there are plenty of jobs available across the country. What if Durkin were to leave Florida? What kind of impact would that have on the Gators’ recruiting?

Potentially a pretty significant one. "

All coaches also receive other benefits, including a $10,000 stipend from the Gators' Nike contract, a vehicle and income from football camps.

Both Durkin and Quinn have contracts that run through 2014

Contracts are meant to be broken - see "Holtz, Skip"

$340,000.00 + Vehicle + income from football camps.

What can USF offer?

We were paying Cosh $325 and, since Taggart will handle the play calls, we should be able to come up with a decent amount.

I'm not impressed with the job Holtz did while he was here. But I also saw younger players on the field outperforming the old guys that were supposed to be the core of the team. When two true freshmen pass a senior on the depth chart, that senior did not do his job.

Frankly, I think Holtz biggest issue was playing too many upperclassmen that either weren't very good or didn't care enough. If it were me, I'd have had the young guys out there much earlier in the season. I'd rather have guys giving all out effort and making mistakes but making some plays than guys either not giving effort or stinking up the joint. If the younger players were able to make plays, that tells me it wasn't all coaching.

Holtz and staff did a poor job this year, but they were left inferior talent by the previous staff. I do not believe that Matt Grothe got incredible coaching while he was here. What he got was sandlot plays that he was able to make work because he was a unique guy.

You started off okay, but individual cases where a psyched up underclassmen was inserted and showed some great energy making some plays doesn't support your cause that strongly. If nothing else it even goes back to coaching where Holtz wasn't able to bring out the strengths of upperclassmen (motivation) who had shown great potential and been given accolades as underclassmen. From their recruitment through their underclassmen years no one was questioning the talent of most of these individuals. If you were referring to our CB situation, that was a known talent issue. Are we talking about lack of actual talent/potential, or just how it was used? If it is how it was used, that again goes back to coaching and the ability to motivate/inspire someone to use their talent/potential.

The rest of the response was pretty general and went back into beliefs. I'm having a tough time with this because it goes against common rationale that lead to the firing of Holtz. BTW, I also do not believe Grothe got incredible coaching while he was here.

Remember that Pierre-Paul was gone after one year, so his impact from the 2009 class ended in 2009, and Williams in 2010. Two of the biggest gems of the class.

Exactly. The overall impact was very weak for what was supposed to be a Top 25 class.

In data terms, I think you are confusing correlation and causation.

Someone is.

You never responded to my statement that if it truly was the players, and we are about to be rid of them all after this coming year, Holtz deserved more time to get other players in. I have no regrets in relieving Holtz as I have no doubt that is not the case. Do you feel that a majority of currently successful FBS coaches would have had the same results with our team? If so, Holtz should still be here as his firing would be unjustified. If you feel Holtz's firing was justified, then you yourself are refuting the players as the actual cause of their poor performance.

If you wanted to go the faith route, I guess you could always say "I believe the performance of the 2009 class was mainly a lack of talent and not coaching" or something along those lines. However, that belief would probably differ from the majority.

Remember that Pierre-Paul was gone after one year, so his impact from the 2009 class ended in 2009, and Williams in 2010. Two of the biggest gems of the class.

Exactly. The overall impact was very weak for what was supposed to be a Top 25 class.

In data terms, I think you are confusing correlation and causation.

When you get up to #2 in the nation and some big wins, your recruiting should improve over prior years. It not only didn't improve, it appears it backslid. That is worthy of criticism.

On paper, turned into a disaster on the field.

Go look at the names on that list. You'll see how few of them were unable to contribute anything at all. Pretty serious lack of talent in that class.

Let's blame the fiscal cliff on Holtz while we are at it. The majority of those players showed absolutely no reason to believe they could produce at this level. They have a responsibility to make themselves better players.

If you take a look at our classes from 2005 to 2009, scratching out nonquals & nonperformers, there is a very clear improvement trend that topped at 2009 - a result of our success and getting to #2 (far better than a Cinci team that ruled the Big East for a couple years I might add). It's clear it is the coach. In nearly every single case where you have a program that is able to recruit well relative to their competition and needs to relieve a coach due to poor performance, they have had the talent required and could not develop it into a solid team.

If it truly was the players, and we are about to be rid of them all after this coming year, Holtz deserved more time to get other players in. I have no regrets in relieving Holtz as I have no doubt that is not the case.

^^^ No kidding, hope Taggart has some solid options on deck.

He's going to have to do some serious sharing at either place, considering all the other top RBs they have committed or on the roster. He would be one of a few in a RB showcase offense here.

Lamar & Barrington

Some of them may also be seeing Taggart backing away and might be feeling a little rejected. Though, I like the style Badet plays with - he reminds me of Taurus Johnson.

Leavitt - JOB 1 - Win the Conference - FAIL.

Holtz - JOB 1 - Win the Conference - FAIL.

Taggart-JOB 1 -Win the Conference - ???

Leavitt - JOB 1 - Win the Conference - FAIL.

Holtz - JOB 1 - Win the Conference - FAIL.

Taggart-JOB 1 -Win the Conference - ??? **** Of course now it's also a completely different conference. 3 years ago, Tulane, Temple, E carolina, etc, would have been considered tune up games. Now, they are conference foes, meaning they can beat us! Quite a few steps backwards has this once skyrocketing program taken.

There's never been a point in our history where 1A games like that would have, realistically, been considered tune up games ...

I respectfully disagree. A few years ago, we would've been pretty heavily favored against any of those teams. This year AND MAYBE next and beyond, not so much.

But I'm glad you guys are happy about the direction of the program. At least someone will be in the seats at RayJay.

+1

We recently lost our first game against a non-BCS opponent since joining the Big East.

+2

Going into those games we all had the expectation of a win, and I think that's what he meant. The expectation of winning is part of a winning culture, and I'm disappointed with the "we have to take our lot in life" mentality that some of the core posters/mods on this board have sunk to. That is NOT the mentality that Leavitt EVER had, and it's NOT the mentality that ANY successful individual or institution has ever had.

GO BULLS!!

Geez 345lbs is a lot!

I'm sure they'd get his playing weight down to around 300-315. Q Eatmon (6'6") and Jake Kaufman (6'9") were even heavier than that at one point and they got them back down around 300 playing weight.

Between NC State and USF, when you compare the potential of the top 5 targets (going by Scout ranking), I'd say USF has the edge and just needs the right general to bring it all together.

USF

Name Pos Rank Stars

Mike McFarland TE 12 ****

Sean Price TE 7 ****

Andre Davis WR 46 ****

D'vario Montgomery WR 22 ****

Terrence Mitchell CB/WR 12 ****

NC State

Name Pos Rank Stars

Asa Watson TE 10 ****

David Grinnage TE 21 ***

Bryan Underwood WR 114 ***

Hakeem Flowers WR 109 ***

Tony Creecy RB/WR 35 ****