Knight_Light

 

We are not the feasibility study. Leave that to the professional consultants ahd elected officials.

The only question you need to answer is - would you be more likely to attend a game in an on campus environment. For me it is hands down a yes

 

Great point. 

 

Logistics > Location

 

Right now at Raymond James, I can find a parking space within 5 minutes, cross 1 road and be at the gates in 5 minutes. From the time I see the stadium, to the time I'm at the front gates, is less than 10 minutes. 

 

If they move to an OCS, and I have to walk 2 miles because of the parking situation, no thanks, I'll give up my tickets and stay home.

 

But you are in the minority...as only a tiny fraction of USF's 250,000 plus alumni and 45,000 students bother to show up.

There will probably be 50 students and 10 alumni that would probably take your place at an on-campus stadium that you say you would not show up for.

UCF sucked and still built a stadium. BUT their alternative was a lot worse than Raymond James.

OCS should not be influenced by wins or losses.

It should be finances, pride and community. If Raymond James wasn't such a nice venue we'd probably have a stadium by now, or in the works. Because it is so nice we can wait to build a better stadium than we could if we had no choice but to build one with haste.

Correct...On-campus stadium will have a 50-100 plus year impact...and that it will change the CULTURE of not only your football program but that also for  your Univ...as on-campus football games are the #1 event to bring alumni BACK to their Univ...and without them...you miss out...as studies show, its the alumni that are ENGAGED and more importantly, VISIT their Universities that are much more likely to  donate $$$ to the general fund (they can see growth/improvement of their school on every visit), and if you don't have that opportunity for the #1 event that bring alumni back...it will cost you $$$ in the long-run.

 

moving from a state of the art stadium to a rinky dink 40k jerry rigged stadium would be dumb but very usf like

if you cant build a state of the art stadium to rival the swamp or doak why bother

Doak is UCF with a facade

 

So true...(actually, UCF's concourse is much wider/open than that of Doak).

WHOOPS! I just lost the ability to post images on this board. Wonder if a particular mod did that?

Anyway, here are some photos of FSU's concourse area, which their facade helped cover  up:

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff141/noleknight/FSU%20Campus/doak_erector4.jpg

http://www.soonerfans.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2375&d=1316657168

Doak Campbell has much more in common with the old Citrus Bowl...which use to look like that.

Here's what BHNS's concourse looks like:

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1275/1391920332_4b6563d48a_z.jpg

 

moving from a state of the art  stadium to a rinky dink 40k jerry rigged stadium would be dumb but very usf like

 

if you cant build a state of the art stadium to rival the swamp or doak why bother

 

Your assumption that we would build a rinky dink stadium is silly. 

USF has said repeatedly that they're going to do it right and right is what the University of Minnesota has. 

 

Btw, the Swamp and Doak were originally just that-rinky dink stadiums. The Swamp started as a 22k seat stadium in 1921 and didn't get to a size that befits the Gator's history of winning until 40 years after it was built (it finally cleared 62000 in 1961). Doak Campbell started as a 15k seat stadium in 1950 and didn't clear the 60k mark until 35 years later, when it hit 60519. Stadiums ARE NOT built over night, they grow with demand for the program. And if population growth and Florida talent is any indication, USF will grow it's fan base without real trouble. All we have to do is win.

 

 

 

Great point...as most on-campus stadiums stadium are really versions 5, 6, 7, etc...that have been expanded/renovated over the past 70-90 plus years...but they key is to BUILD ONE FIRST...and then always improve it.

Doak Campbell in 1950

Florida Field 1930's

Thankful that the powers that be are looking into an OCS. Some people just cant grasp that fact that 20K in a 40K OCS is better than 20K in an off campus 65K for many reasons. KnightLight has been right on about an OCS. And for USF fans to think that we dont need one is thinking short sighted for this rebuilding program.   Would love to see Harlan get some businesses looking into this as they can build around that OCS and get a good campus village moving forward. The pep rallies on campus and the on campus spring game just shows you that the USF campus is dying to have an OCS. 

Thanks but many USF fans (though they have been shouted down in the past) have been strong proponents of an on-campus stadium and the LIFETIME Plus benefits that it brings not only to the football program, but maybe even more important, to the Univ as a whole.

 

 

This is a university were you will be shamed for not attending games or participating in traditions. They actually call people that have no spirit or dont participate in traditions 2%'rs

Shame on us that another university can out do our attendance with their students alone.

 

 

Texas A&M has had a team since 1894. We have had a team for less than 20 years. If you're trying to compare the two that's just ridiculous.

 

True...but its as easy as one having PRIDE in their Univ...and while its harder for schools like USF and UCF to have that since most students don't have family legacies of generations attending their current school, one actually doesn't need all of that to have PRIDE in what they do, WHERE they go and to help GIVE BACK (heck, just by showing up/cheering) to their school.

It all starts with Freshmen...get them hooked...get them hooked for LIFE.

NOTE: The above is also UCF's biggest problem...especially since UCF actually enrolls more Community College Grads as Jr than they do Freshmen in a full calendar year...as new "Juniors" are much less likely to ever live on-campus, less likely to join Frats/Sororities/Clubs, etc...and are much less likely to have "school spirit", i.e. many still live at home...don't have as much interaction with others/on-campus as what underclassmen  have when they start out as Freshmen.

Sports Illustrated had a study/articles years ago that showed if college students don't attend games (football and basketball) while they are enrolled at school, chances decrease dramatically that they would become alumni season tix holders/boosters.

That same study showed that winning wasn't the major factor because those.students that didn't attend many if any games at very successful programs (like Georgia), odds we're.still much less that they would support their.school after graduation.

Thats why an on-campus stadium can have 50 plus year $$ figure for every student that gets hook on their schools team.

More students that attend creates more future boosters/season tix holders that will pay oof for 50 plus years.

NOTE: Many on campus.stadiums today are 80 plus years old (just renovated and expanded over the years)

Since when was our fcs (Div I-AA) game ever on tv? 

2006 vs McNeese State

2007 vs Elon

2008 vs Tennessee Martin

2009 vs Wofford

2011 vs FAMU

2012 vs Chattanooga

2013 vs McNeese State

How about a coach looking to go from a $200,000/yr job to one that pays $1 million/yr?  

Ding!

/thread

Stan had just 1 winning conf season (out of 5) at Arkansas.

Stan has just 1 winning conf season (out of 7) at USF and is just 6-25 over last 2 years in conf play.

He's probably very fortunate that there was at least one AD out there that like to give out guaranteed multi-year contracts.

 

Title IX

easy ways around it. give every scholarship player a number of free tickets to each of their events. that's equal benefits. let them sell them

 

something tells me alabama football players will get more for their tickets than alabama field hockey players.

 

then let the players sell their own rights for marketing purposes. manziel will get more than a womans soccer player to endorse something.

 

And something tells me Alabama field hockey players will get more for their tickets than USF (insert 60-70 other  program) Football players...and that's probably true even if bama doesn't even have a varsity field hockey team.

There is no way the Federal Courts will allow higher payments for football players vs say women volleyball or softball players...as Title IX is basically unbreakable.

 

I think they should get the same deal or maybe even better than what grad students get to be grad research assistants. I don't see a downside. Grad student provide a service and so do tr athletes. I guess the problem is that the professor usually pays for the grad students tuition from research grants he or she has won. In athletics where would the money come from for departments that already operate at a loss? Honestly I don't see a problem with different sports getting dofferent stipends or having stipends for football and basketball. Some cry babies will say "Male athletes are getting paid more than female." And ruin it but this is how the real world works.

Let me share with you the deal I had at Texas A&M. Below was the deal I got as a GRA and I don't see any harm in giving athletes a similar one except answering the question where would the money come from if the depart operates at a loss?

First year only scholarship: $5,000 paid out over 9 months (first two semesters)

Tuition: Free

Fees: My responsibility, came to about $3,000 a year and were a ***** because you needed to pay them like $1500 upfront at the beginning of the semester.

Books: I had to pay for these, $50-250/ semester

Stipend: this is what I was paid $2,000/mo, came to about $1,725/mo after tax and a $45 health insurance deduction

Housing: my responsibility

Food: my responsibility

Breakdown... I was given a first year scholarship, free tuition and a stipend. Less the roughly $3,000+ I had to pay each year in fees and books in year one with the scholarship I lived off of $22,700 take home and in year two $17,700 take home.

And let me tell you I lived quite well. I was able to save and afford to fly to Florida about every 2-4 months and a payment on a $7,000 used car I bought $500 down. I graduated two years later taking out zero loans for graduate school and with about $2,000 in the bank as well (I still had loans from undergrad however)

If athletes are already getting free food + free housing + free tuition + free fee + free fees.....

A small stipend of $500-$1000/mo would be PLENTY!!!!

Based on what I had to pay for rent, food, books and fees a $500/mo stipend with all of those being free would have been equivalent. So a fair stipend in my opinion is about $6,000/ year and I assure you they put in less hours for their sport than I had to put in for research and my thesis.

Not to mention. FREE LAPTOPS, FREE FURNITURE!!! Throw in getting those things free and I think $3,000/year is a VERY VERY fair stipend.

My compensation when I account for the price of graduate tuition was about $40,000/year. Lower undergrad tuition rates may make this $35,000 for most athletes.

BECAUSE THEY ALREADY HAVE ZERO EXPENSES WHAT MORE DO THEY NEED???

I'm fine with giving them a few hundred/mo stipend but they need very little. They are already compensated well if you ask me, but a little extra would not do any harm. The key here is "little". This "oh the poor student athlete" is bogus.

A big reason they don't want to pay anything is they don't want a workman comp claim if injured. It's the whole idea behind "amateur" athlete, but going back to the Greeks, the amateur athlete was getting paid.

And if programs didn't pay coaching staff millions there would be plenty of money to pay students.

There are a lot of angles behind this issue but bottom line is if students decided to boycott athletics for a year they could get whatever they want.

 

Without programs paying coaching staffs millions of $$$$, odds are Alabama wouldn't have won 3 national titles under Saban because Saban and any top coach with his weight would be on NFL Coaching Staffs...where they could make top $$$$.

Without those titles...without those championships, etc...schools wouldn't have tens of millions of $$$$ in donations, which actually helps build those beautiful facilities that current student-athletes use today.

This is NOT a secret story...as even Bull fans back then knew why UCF was looking at and eventually building an on-campus stadium.

Renovation talk about the Citrus Bowl dates back to 1995, when the city started to work with the architect firm HNTB...which I think finally got the contract in 2008 but work was delayed and not started till this past week.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1995-12-28/news/9512280221_1_citrus-bowl-stadium-florida-citrus-sports-existing-stadium  

Found this post I made from May 2006...which again referenced the 2004 timeline when Dyer told Hitt & Orsini to get lost and start looking for a temporary home:

Current estimates are $51 Million...with the 20,000 seat addition to come later.

 

 

 

 

I'd love to see a link to this version of events.  While I am certainly not a UCF fan and thus wouldn't have been interested, I don't recall any discussion of the renovation being discussed in advance and being one of the driving factors.   I also haven't found any article which supports this version of events.  

 

I could be wrong, but I do not recall or see any evidence to suggest that is what happened.

 

 

Anyone involved at UCF during that time is very well aware of those events listed early.

 

In April 2004, even the Sentinel had articles about Dyer and Florida Citrus Sports in regards to their first initial plans to renovate the 70 plus year old Citrus Bowl.

 

Stadium Upgrades Key To Orlando's Bcs Bid

With A Fifth Bcs Game Likely, Leaders Search For Ways To Pay For Citrus Bowl Improvements.

 

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2004-04-28/sports/0404280195_1_fifth-bcs-citrus-bowl-fifth-game

 

Again, UCF never would have bothered to look for a "temporary home" unless Dyer told them to look for options for 2005 and 2006..(those plans for a quick renovation died...but it was when UCF looked at options available that lead to the eventually building of BHNS).

 

 

Nothing in this article states your version of events, and the previous article I posted directly contradicts what you are saying. I'm beginning to suspect this is UCF lore that evolved out of what people assumed happened rather than what actually happened.  

 

 

 

LOL!! Here's Steve Orsini's phone number...give him a call so you won't go thru life not knowing the truth: (972) 263-0774

 

 

I'd love to see a link to this version of events.  While I am certainly not a UCF fan and thus wouldn't have been interested, I don't recall any discussion of the renovation being discussed in advance and being one of the driving factors.   I also haven't found any article which supports this version of events.  

 

I could be wrong, but I do not recall or see any evidence to suggest that is what happened.

 

Anyone involved at UCF during that time is very well aware of those events listed early.

In April 2004, even the Sentinel had articles about Dyer and Florida Citrus Sports in regards to their first initial plans to renovate the 70 plus year old Citrus Bowl.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2004-04-28/sports/0404280195_1_fifth-bcs-citrus-bowl-fifth-game

Again, UCF never would have bothered to look for a "temporary home" unless Dyer told them to look for options for 2005 and 2006..(those plans for a quick renovation died...but it was when UCF looked at options available that lead to the eventually building of BHNS).

They have a list for every school what a football and basketball student brings to each school ABOVE and BEYOND what the cost of tuition, room and board is and over a career at even USF, it's like $400,000 PER STUDENT. They are indentured servants. They have strict income rules as well,as conduct and reap none of the profit from their work. They are forced to attend college to get to the NFL or NBA due to the rules so they have no choice. The U.S. Is the only country that does this and money and greed has created the situation.

You are totally wrong in bold.

1) No one is forced to go to college to play in the NBA or NFL.

2) There are scores of options for basketball players, from playing International Basketball where some leagues sign players that are STILL in HS to play in the states in the NBA D-League, where the minimum age to play is 18.

3) NFL only requires that all players are 3 years removed from HS...doesn't say they must go to college...as some NFL players have made it by playing in IM leagues in the military to playing professional soccer, ruby, Austrialian rules football, etc... and then making the transition to the NFL

Now can players BENEFIT from the exposure they get from playing college basketball and college football? 

Of course...which is why most take that route...but the NBA nor the NFL "force anyone to play college ball".

 

September 29, 2006:  Orlando Mayor Buddy Dyer announced an agreement on a $175-million renovation of the Citrus Bowl.

Doh!

Nevertheless, this is not why UCF built an OCS. Really, it doesn't make any sense to link the two.

http://www.ucfknights.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/010405aaa.html

 

In the Fall of 2004, Orlando Mayor Buddy Dyer told Dr Hitt & AD Steve Orsini that UCF wouldn't be able to play any home games in the Citrus Bowl for the 2005 or 2006 season because they were going to shut-down and renovate the Citrus Bowl over 2 years. (Even though it wasn't fully approved at that time)

Hitt and Orsini tried to persuade Dyer to do the renovation in phases so UCF could continue to play in the stadium (i.e. use one side of the grandstands) for those years but Dyer said no. 

So during the Fall of 2004, Dr Hitt and Orsini started to look for places UCF could play in 2005 (i.e. from Wide World of Sports to Memorial Stadium in Daytona to building a small 15,000-20,000 seat temporary stadium on-campus). 

That is also why UCF had just 4 regular season home games in 2005 (all conf games)...as they scheduled all 3 non-conf games away from home

It was when UCF started to look at building a small on-campus stadium that they realized, even for a program that was just leaving the MAC and entering CUSA in 2005, that they might be able to build their own on-campus stadium.

Because of Dyer's initial plans to renovate the Citrus Bowl stadium in 2005 and 2006, UCF had initially planned to open BHNS in 2006, but when Dyer's plans were delayed, that gave UCF an extra year to raise $$ and not rush construction so that BHNS did not have to open till 2007 (against Univ of Texas).

Interesting side note: It has taken TEN YEARS from Dyer's initial plan to renovate the Citrus Bowl back in 2004...as just this past week, they started to bulldoze the lower 2 levels of the old Citrus Bowl and reconstruction of the new lower levels, clubs, suites, etc...should start later this Spring/Summer.

The greatest gift UCF has ever received when UF Grad Buddy Dyer told Hitt & Orsini to "get lost"...because without that push...UCF probably would have never had their own on-campus stadium.

Some UCF fans still send the Gator Mayor a Christmas Card each and every year..."thanking him" for that gift...which keeps on giving every single football season.

 

 

 

Future hinges on hiring of new AD

http://tbo.com/sports/colleges/usf-bulls/bulls-beat-future-hinges-on-hiring-of-new-ad-20140122/

Excerpt:

"The new AD must have the creativity and vision to address USF’s needs for an on-campus football stadium. Anyone who attended the USF-UCF contest in November saw how much that added to the atmosphere.

USF is fortunate to have Raymond James Stadium. But it isn’t a true home. The next game-changer is a 40,000-seat stadium that would invigorate the football program – and the campus."

An invite to a P5 conference Is much more important than an on campus stadium. The new hire could have insight or pull to get USF into a P5 conference. I would take P5 over on campus stadium all day long.

Por que no los dos?

I agree 100%. It's a false dichotomy. We can have both - or at least fight for both. Plus, an AD has greater control over fundraising for an OCS than wiggling us into a P5 conference, which is ultimately up to a vote by other schools with their own financial interests at heart.

 

Smart administrators can have more than one goal/objective...and the above is true...as USF can control their own program, their own facilities, etc...and is obviously NOT in control of being invited to a  P5 conference (who knows if any of the P5 will ever invite new members?).

Control what you can control...and for those AGAINST a right size on-campus stadium, just look at the number of EMPTY SEATS that USF played at home, even though they hired a so-called "dynamic and local Head Coach" and ask yourself: "Is that a good thing to do?" (i.e. play in front of that many empty seats)

Empty Seats per home game at RJS for 2013:

McNeese State: 43,238

FAU: 45,108

Miami: 32,860

Cincinnati: 49,938

Louisville: 44,492

Memphis: 51,064

Total number of empty seats at USF Home games for 2013: 266,708 or an average of 44,451 empty seats per game.

 

Notre Dame football players receive an education that costs other students parents $250,000.00. How many kids can earn that kind of money coming out of high school?

 

first off tuition at most universities is way overstated. they want people to feel like they are getting something of greater value. Most students receive a considerable break on the published tuition amounts. secondly ND tuition and fees is said to be $44k per year. that amounts to $75k less than the amount you stated.

 

not many kids can earn that much and not many kids can bring in $100M per year to a university either.

 

BTW UF states in their own student guide that it costs roughly $16k per year which includes a car, insurance, gas, etc. everyday living expenses. not just tuition and room / board.

 

Give the revenue athletes an incentive to graduate. Give them $100k when they receive their degree. a drop in the bucket. say 25 football players graduate a year (it's not even close to that). it would cost the university $2.5M which is a drop in the bucket. adjust ADs and coaches salaries down. let the players earn a few bucks

 

The above would be true for those that would be accepted for admission WITHOUT being offered an athletic scholarship...but since most football (and men's basketball players too), would NOT gain admission as a regular student, the $$$ those scholarships, tuition, room & board, private tutoring, etc...(especially for out-of-state students) can be worth up to $200,000 or more over a 4-5 year period rings true.

Imagine how much less in taxes we'd pay .....

Really, you think if Congress just taxed pot (signed by the President)...that those in charge would simply just cut our other taxes in return?

You don't think congress would spend those new tax $$$ in a blink of an eye vs giving tax breaks?

If you believe what you wrote...I got some wonderful easily developed swampland to sell ya in FLA.

 

 

He'll be transferring to Colo., lol.

He wont be the only one . Speaking of Colorado what if the school follows State law and says its OK for their students and players to smoke, will the NCAA step in and supersede? Will it turn them into a juggernaut or will we see Alabama and the other SEC SCHOOLS start pushing hard to legalizing weed as well to keep the talent?

Places where it's legal, employers still can restrict employees. You won't see firemen and cops smoking pot in Colo.. I expect the same with those on athletic scholarships. Banned substance like legal ones that effect performance.

 

Correct.

Some players that understand the value of a $200,000 athletic scholarship will easily understand what team rules they must follow to keep said scholarship just like most employers are doing in Colorado.

From quote from Seth Davis's SI hoop article the other day...when he noted;

So let me get this straight: Chane Behanan, who was dismissed from Louisville for repeatedly failing to abide by university policy (wink, wink) and has enlisted John Lucas as his substance abuse counselor, is about to sign with Colorado State, which just happens to be located in a state where marijuana just became legal for recreational purposes. On what planet is that a good idea?

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-basketball/news/20140120/hoop-thoughts-bruce-pearl-richard-pitino-wichita-state/#ixzz2r34HiuBJ

Ballot will be for medical only.

Thats what Colorado did a few years ago...but all of their supportersgoals  (just like in FLA) was for eventually legalized use.

"Medicinal" marijuana was always a ruse....and much of the public bought it.

Key point being that someone has seen how its done right elsewhere, not someone with our culture ingrained. Someone with outside training to bring it to us.

Key point being that someone has seen how its done right elsewhere, not someone with our culture ingrained. Someone with outside training to bring it to us.

Think the biggest flaw made in hiring Woolard was that Woolard had just 1 full-time AD position prior to USF...and that was from a school (St Louis U) that didn't have a Div I-A Football program, let alone a BCS Football Program.

Woolard was  hired 7 months AFTER USF accepted their BCS invite....and still surprised he was hired from SLU.

Either way, it's clearly not his first smoke, which tells me it was only a matter of time. It's a felony, he is gone, off the team. Better to know today now and use his schools for a new recruit.

He is only charged with a felony (yes, that means you can't participate in team activities till the case and/or penalty are resolved). However, if he has a previous clean record, if this is his first offense, any good lawyer will get this charged dropped to a misdemeanor, which would make him eligible to participate in program activities/workouts/practices/games.

Now Tag might have his own penalties to add...but odds are, if chargers are lowered or even dropped all together, he will not be kicked out of the program for good.

I don't see how moving the game to an OCS would improve attendance

 

Students were outnumbered EASILY 10 to 1 in the stands, probably more. There was maybe.... 1,000 students in the student section? I'm not sure the exact number, but the first three rows had people in it, the rest up to the top was empty

 

Moving the games to an on campus stadium, would drive away 70% of the people who are attending the games. 

 

 

Most Universities would obviously dispute that statement. Just wondering where you got that fact from.