BullShirt

12 hours ago, DontPushMe said:

This is why I've been saying we need to go independent. Even if we lose money on it we have to break the association with these schools. My plan would have us playing the maximum allowed road games per season as 1 and dones with power conference schools.

McNeese State got $500,000 to play at Florida.  Ball State got $1.6 Million to play at Georgia and another $1.6 Million to play at Kentucky the week before so the SEC appears to be willing to write some pretty big checks for some “one and done” games.  I presume the BiG, ACC, etc. would also be willing to write some pretty big checks for a 1 and done game.

Remember, nothing this big, this complicated and with this much money at stake ever goes as planned.  Too many schools, too many egos, too much money, too many corporate entities (Network, Cable, Streaming, etc.) too many fiefdoms, too many unforeseen / unplanned for results and on and on and on.  In other words TOO MANY MOVING PARTS.

For example, there are only 64 teams in March Madness (forget the play ins).  Most people's brackets are busted after the first weekend.  And that's with a lot of high seed versus low seed games that should be "gimmes".  And yet, after just 1 or 2 games some big teams inevitably fall (I'm looking at you Purdue).  Conference realignment is so much bigger than that.  I just don't see how it turns out the way most people expect.  I guess we'll see in a few years.  Remember, the pendulum swings both ways.

4 minutes ago, BDYZR said:

And yet here we are 100 years later and football is the driving force of realignment. BTW, The Economics of Sports by Leeds & Allman has been updated seven times to illustrate the ever changing economy of sports.

No, I don't know who's money is being spent, although I do know that some of it is mine. And I'm all for it!

Yes, I'm sure it has been updated several times as any textbook should be that is related to an industry or business that continues to grow and evolve.  But I slightly disagree with "football is the driving force of realignment".  TV $$$ is the driving force.  When that comes crashing down (and by many accounts it will) things will change dramatically all over again.  The whole big money, long term TV contract, over the air, cable, streaming, etc. business is being turned on it's ear and right now BIG $ is being thrown at a few conferences and everyone wants a piece of the action for fear of being left behind and left with nothing. 

IN MY OPINION in a few years football will still be around but there are going to be some big winners and some big losers financially and the current model will prove to be unsustainable.  At that point I think you'll see some "de-consolidation" in the big 2 or 3 conferences as people start saying "what were we thinking".  And since football will still be king you can't say football will be driving them apart, it will be less revenue and the higher expenses incurred by many of these programs.  I'm not blazing any new trails here I'm just parroting what some of my contacts in sports and media are saying.  The "slash and burn" destruction of conferences along with the big money is not sustainable.  We'll see.

4 minutes ago, Rocky Style said:

Talking about college football in the early days.  Sadly we weren't around in the early days and then even in our early days we didn't have football!

I do think it makes a difference.  Back when I played there were "old timers" stopping by now and then and it was really cool and inspirational to hear some of their stories.  A long, deep rooted history is probably more important than most people realize.

3 minutes ago, Triple B said:

****, thanks for that lesson on early college football. Really had no clue about that ......... but still think it's meant to be played on campus now. 

Oh yeah.  No doubt things have changed since the days of the "leather heads".  But it's a pretty interesting backstory to college football.  The NFL has a really interesting backstory too.  Pete Rozelle made the league what it is today.  He ran the league from 1960 to 1990 if I recall correctly.  But I digress.

A good or great on campus experience is hard to beat but I do wonder how many schools would choose to play in an NFL caliber stadium if they could (forget the revenue sharing and financial aspects).  Obviously most can't because they are not close to one.

2 minutes ago, BullShirt said:

You may be right but "momentum" and "positioning" have more influence than you might suspect.  A good AD can sell a program that's on an upswing as evidenced by recent success and the (then) current position in the polls.  I actually don't think you'd replace anyone that got "called up" inasmuch as I think USF & UCF would have been viewed as a "2fer".  The Florida market has value and in the current climate the deeper the Big "whatever" could sink their teeth into the Florida market the better.

And please don't overlook the "A good AD" part.  It's vital.

2 minutes ago, Triple B said:

A 6-9 week run like we had then wasn't going to replace anybody that's been called up. We may have been more visible from the Twitter "experts" but we'd still be in the AAC.

You may be right but "momentum" and "positioning" have more influence than you might suspect.  A good AD can sell a program that's on an upswing as evidenced by recent success and the (then) current position in the polls.  I actually don't think you'd replace anyone that got "called up" inasmuch as I think USF & UCF would have been viewed as a "2fer".  The Florida market has value and in the current climate the deeper the Big "whatever" could sink their teeth into the Florida market the better.

42 minutes ago, Triple B said:

I've forever been in the "we don't need an ocs to get us where we want to be" camp and still am. However, college football is meant to be played on campus with all that goes with that. I think everything is finally in place in regards to BOT, administration, Athletics and the fans to get it done ........

If USF is okay with the price and the debt service, it is THEIR decision and I will let THEM worry about paying the bills, doing what I can along the way to help contribute.

"College football is meant to be played on campus".  Not originally.  In fact, in the early days of college football a lot of teams were fielded with non-students.  The Economics of Sports by Leeds & Allman (college textbook, not intended for casual reading) goes into this.  Some fascinating info.  Football was considered an extra curricular activity and frowned upon by many colleges because it took away from other "more worthy" (mainly Olympic sports) activities.  Hence a lot of teams played off campus.  Believe it or not players moved from school to school (sound familiar?) just to play sports (mainly football) and many never even bothered to enroll in classes.  This is one of the things that led to the creation of the NCAA (in a roundabout way).

If you can find a used version it's a great read if you're into economics, finances & sports.  As just a "sports" book it's pretty dry though.  Lot's of math and numbers but some cool "back stories" none the less.  Someone with an Economics and/or Finance background would find it pretty "spicy".  Someone just interested in some sports history and/or stories will find it painfully boring.  Even though in most people's opinions football players are just "dumb jocks" I'm in the former category.  I always liked long travel away games as it gave me time to study.

10 minutes ago, BDYZR said:

Which is exactly why we're having this discussion. being #2 in the Nation didn't get it done. Going 11-2 didn't get it done. It's like newly weds and babies, you figure it out, you nurture it, and you give it all you've got to succeed. There are exactly no guarantees that the kid will be successful, but that doesn't stop you from trying.

I'm guessing Other People don't mind spending their Money on it. I'm also guessing that they have a vision for the future and are not sitting on their collective butts and doing nothing is not it.

Sorry to disagree but "being #2 in the Nation didn't get it done" 10+ years ago when there wasn't a major seismic shift going on in the big money big conference landscape doesn't cut it.  No one outside of USF remembers that.  It's too long ago.

If USF was having that kind of success last year or the year before and was ranked #2, USF would NOT be in the AAC right now.

Also, you presume Other People don't mind spending their Money but you don't even know who those Other People are.  Nobody knows.  I'm not talking about the banks that might LOAN the money or bonds that might be floated to RAISE the money.  Ultimately someone has to pay the piper.  If the projected revenue to service the debt does not materialize (and it frequently does not) then the money will have to come from somewhere, usually fees and surcharges.

Just now, John Lewis said:

My posting here mainly if from me being a donor, season ticket member, alumnus, etc.

I don't believe I have outright posted something here saying that everyone needs to step up their giving. If someone requires my assistance on a work related topic I will respond in kind and if there is someone who wants to discuss giving I message them in private.

I never ventured anywhere near the subject of giving or stepping up giving so I'm not sure where that's coming from.   You brought up your donations in a reply to one of my previous posts so I replied back what I thought you would take (and was intended as) a compliment.

6 minutes ago, John Lewis said:

I'm also a donor and that influences my opinion on things much more than my job does.

I believe that is the case for many who post on here as well.

Good for you (and I mean that sincerely).  It's a very rare person that is influenced more by their donations than by their job.  The fear of losing one's job has influenced many a person to say and/or do things that they otherwise would never have done.

3 minutes ago, BDYZR said:

 

100% agree ↑

Go reread your last 3 or 4 posts. They are ALL based on "Might." 

True and I admit that.  Anything that presumes future events is based on "might". 

The difference is I'm not advocating spending $300 million of Other People's Money on an OCS that apparently won't be good enough / big enough to attract big time opponents on the off chance that it "Might" change in the future.  The only thing that would make that change is if USF starts winning and winning BIG.  If / when that starts happening the big time programs will sit up and take notice and want to take their shot at USF.  And if / when that happens what comes next?  A bigger program takes a run at hiring Goach away from USF because the school spent all their money on an OCS and doesn't have the $$$ to keep him.

And yes, that's based on a MIGHT too but it's a very positive might and doesn't require USF to back itself into a $300 Million corner financially.

7 minutes ago, Grateful Dad said:

You may be misjudging John.  That was a little tough to read, actually.  Other than that, I agree with a lot of your post.

I presume you are referring to my reply to John.  As I stated, my intent was not to be "mean" to John but as an employee of USF (athletics no less) he knows on which side his bread is buttered so I think that influences his opinions on things.

1 minute ago, Rocky Style said:

Also this can be changed.  If we hit on Golesh which I think we may have so far (who knows), we need to shell out to keep him when the time comes.  Can't let him walk after having one good season.

Exactly!  If USF gets "knee deep in debt" there may not be enough money left over to try and keep him.

5 minutes ago, Grateful Dad said:

I'm sorry, Peat, but I did know what you meant.  It's just that I was at every one of the original series and I saw first hand what their fans are like and I'm too old to put up with their crap.  Afraid of playing them?  Not a chance.  I want to be far away from them so no one confuses the schools anymore.

Does anyone confuse Michigan with Michigan State?  What about Florida with Florida State?  How about North Carolina with North Carolina State?  Win.  Win Convincingly.  Win Often.  Do that and NO ONE will confuse USF with UCF.  NO ONE!

2 minutes ago, Rocky Style said:

I kinda have to though. At best I can get a plaque on the wall with my name on it somewhere if I donate enough, or fill out a survey.  

Otherwise they don't care what I think. 

I feel your pain on that one Brother.  Trust me.

3 minutes ago, John Lewis said:

It certainly might.

Let's wait and see what happens over the coming years in regards to OOC scheduling and being in a new conference at some point.

"It certainly MIGHT"?  "Let's wait and see what happens over the coming years"?  That's not exactly a ringing endorsement.  But I get it.  It's not your $300 Million or your debt service so let's go ahead and build it and let someone else worry about paying the bills.

I don't intend this to be "mean" towards you John.  I certainly get it.  You work for USF Athletics and would naturally be biased towards using Other People's Money to build a nice new OCS.  But at the end of the day I just don't see "it certainly might" and "see what happens" as convincing arguments when all USF has to offer up is games against schools like FAU, Charlotte & UNT.  As I posted elsewhere in this thread I firmly believe that if USF wins, puts fans in the stands and gets eyeballs on TV (TAD) the OCS is secondary.

13 minutes ago, Rocky Style said:

I hear what you are saying there but I am deferring to USF on the risk analysis on the financing.  That's out of my ballpark.  I think donations will increase once you give someone an emotional connection and reason to get back on campus regularly.  

Personally, I wouldn't mind using a neutral site for massive games (rare) and being on campus for 90% of our normal games.  Then promise the P5 conferences we will expand later if and when the TV money flows in and bigger opponents are forced to play us.

Seems like an obvious play to me, but I'll defer the financing to the USF leadership.  I am just a customer / alum saying what I would like.

You said "I am deferring to USF on the risk analysis on the financing" but you know what scares me about that?  Didn't we defer to USF on hiring the last few football coaches and the last few basketball coaches?  That didn't turn out too well. 

I know finance and sports are two entirely different things but for the most part (but not entirely I'll admit) they are "joined at the hip" when it comes to an OCS.

Personally, if a magic Genie suddenly appeared and said he/she would give USF a hugely successful football program but USF could NEVER have an OCS I would take that in a heartbeat and NEVER LOOK BACK.  Unfortunately, I think there are some/many in the athletics program (and some on this board as well) that would choose a mediocre football program WITH an OCS every time.

But I'll admit, I am very BIASED towards playing at Ray Jay.  And in my opinion IF USF had been uber successful in football the past 5 years (big wins, big crowds) USF would be holding the allure of playing its home conference games in a big time NFL stadium like a giant carrot to any conference (ACC, Big "whatever") that came calling.  And IF USF had big wins & big crowds there's not a conference out there that would have said "Yeah, we'll take you BUT you have to build an OCS".  Why?  Because it wouldn't have mattered.  WINS - CROWDS - TV NUMBERS is all that matters in this new era.

4 minutes ago, Peatearpan said:

Agreed, especially that last line.

Yes, absolutely.  Home and home against UCF.  Barring that Ray Jay and the "Citrus Bowl".

4 minutes ago, Rocky Style said:

Whew the answer to this one is obvious to me but this may be one of those topics where people are not going to see eye to eye.  On a very overwhelming average, we are not scheduling big opponents at home (see conference).  We should build a location that suits our needs that is expandable if and when we are lucky enough to get the call up again someday.

Otherwise we are still having fun on campus for generations in a "right sized" venue.  

Call me crazy but I'm not just looking at "having fun on campus for generations".  I'm also looking at how do you service the $300 Million debt to build the OCS?  (aka paying the bills, crazy I know).  We've been lead to believe in this thread and elsewhere that USF doesn't make much money playing at Ray Jay but we are also being told that the big teams that will draw a good crowd (ND, UF, FSU, etc.) won't play at USF's OCS.  Is that because the OCS will be viewed as "too small" or is the attraction of playing at Ray Jay greater than the attraction of playing against USF?  Just curious.  To me it's all inter-related.

34 minutes ago, John Lewis said:

The OCS fixes many things. 

FSU, UF, and Miami are not going to schedule true home and homes with us since the 1 for 2 precedent has already been established with UF and Miami. That could certainly change if we move to a better league.

If we schedule UCF, then we shouldn't ask, or accept, anything less that 1 for 1.

But if  all the big attendance games (ND, UF, FSU, Miami, etc.) are at Ray Jay doesn't that defeat the purpose of an OCS?  At a cost of $300 Million how do you put enough butts in the seats at an OCS with games against FAU, Charlotte, UNT, etc.?

1 hour ago, John Lewis said:

Love the idea, but the reality would be that we'd only see UCF and FIU in our OCS.

Wouldn't mind a 1 for 2 that we have with UF and Miami, but they aren't going to agree to that when we move into the OCS.

Wait a minute.  I thought the OCS was the greatest thing since sliced bread and was going to fix everything.  Now you're telling us that UF nor Miami will schedule a Home and Home series if we play in our own OCS?  Next thing you're going to tell us is Florida State and UCF won't play us Home and Home either.  I guess we'll just have to settle for FAU, Charlotte, UNT, etc.

16 hours ago, smazza said:

that is the coaches job to bring in the personnel

he needed to recruit juco players

i dont want to hear we dont have the talent. quit if you cant bring in the talent

You need to ask yourself this:  Could ANYONE bring the talent to USF at this point?  Seriously, ANYONE?  This is a bottom of the barrel program that needs a ground up, brick by brick rebuild.  Name brand coaches like Saban don’t take jobs like this.   First time and/or unknown coaches do and good players do not flock to them.

Will Goach work out?  I don’t know but too many people act like this is Notre Dame or Alabama and everyone should just want to play here.  Trust me, convincing good players to go to USF is probably harder right now than EVER BEFORE.

16 hours ago, olafberserker said:

I'm not sure what you were watching.   We had over 500 yards of offense including 374 on the ground.  Our qb turned the ball over 3 times and completed less than 50% of his passes

Some of you are incredible .... 

You sir need to change your name to OlafTheReasonable!  Do it.  DO IT NOW!

16 hours ago, Bull Matrix said:

I’m sorry but USF football still has not found a coach since Coach Jim Leavitt. There is no sugarcoating it. USF football sucks.

What?  He literally inherited what could arguably be one of, if not THE, worst college football programs in the entire country and you judge him (with this group of mostly inherited players) after 1 game?

You are delusional.  This is USF.  NOBODY is beating down the door to come and play here.  Being totally left out of conference realignment tells you what other conferences and schools think of USF too.  This is a total, ground up, brick by brick rebuild and it’s going to take TIME.  Did you really expect to go TO WKU and win GAME 1 with THIS group of players?  Really?  Did you even expect it to be within 2 TDs?  Really?  Nick Sabin could NOT have won that game with THIS group of players.  Sorry to burst your bubble.

14 hours ago, Outlaw said:

If the team can't win five games with this weak schedule then AD MK should be fired immediately and a new AD that prioritizes winning should take over.  Give Golesh one more year with someone that turns on the pressure on him.

With all due respect Outlaw, a good coach doesn’t need an AD to put the pressure on him.  A good coach puts the pressure on himself to win regardless of the AD.  The AD just goes along for the ride and pats himself on the back if the coach ends up being successful.  I’m sure AD MK will be no different.

I played for a very successful college program and the AD stayed out of the way of Coach.  Our Coach put more than enough pressure on himself (and us) to win to cover the AD, the President of the university and the entire faculty of the Biology department (no offense intended to the Biology department).