Bobcat99

Not true. In Florida, the individual who serves is only responsible if they serve someone illegally; illegally serving a drink in Florida is defined as serving to someone who is underage or knowingly serving an alcoholic.

A man who identified himself as a general manager at the Bull Ring but would not give his full name had "absolutely no comment" Friday. Asked how often Grothe worked there, he said "I have no idea."

The NCAA requires all employers of student-athletes to file an Employment Form in the Compliance Office of the institution. If he is the general manager, he would have been the one to fill out the form and thus would know exactly how often Grothe works there.

This whole thing is starting to stink.

No Bobcat,

Several NCAA athletes work for boosters. As long as close tabs are kept on how much they are making and how they are being paid it is ok.

If Matt Grothe was hired to work there because he was Matt Grothe, USF quarterback, and not because he was an experienced, skilled bartender, that's an NCAA violation.

Part of the problem here is that this isn't just any establishment. It's an establishment owned by a booster. To an external observer, it looks very similar to the Rhett Bomar situation.

not sure how you can turn this against MADD. It is a bartenders job to check the patrons i.d. If they didnt do these types of stings then bars would serve to every 18 yr old in the county with no fear of reprecussions. Until you form a lobby movement to change the legal drinking age to 18, it is 21. MADD is a great organization with a worthy cause.

MADD uses fear tactics to fiat laws on states. MADD is the reason the drinking age is 21. MADD is the reason the margin for DUI went from .15, to .12, to .10, to .08 in every state. MADD is singlehandedly ripping the rights of states to decide their own laws away from them.

I agree that fighting drunk driving is a good thing, but MADD uses tactics of federalism and fear to mandate laws to states, blackmailing them into passing absurd laws in order to keep their access to federal highway funding.

I feel bad for Matt that some low-life federal agency wanted to make a name for itself by harassing a college football player.

Actually, it was a state agency...but your point is still valid. I can't help but wonder if he was being "targeted" so they could get a high-profile bust. Actually, I don't wonder at all -- that IS what happened.

They do this at every bar in Tampa. Believe it or not, Matt Grothe is not some kind of celebrity around this town. He might be to USF football fans, but that's a small percentage of the community as a whole.

I assure you, the state agencies do stings at every bar in the area, as does the Hillsborough Sheriff's Department. This had nothing to do with anything but Matt Grothe breaking the first law of bartending.

If you don't like that law enforcement agencies enforce the law, perhaps you ought to try and get it changed, or at least strip some of the power from the organization that pushes for these investigations: MADD.

If you wanted to cheer for UF, you should have gone there. If you can't get into UF, you have no right cheering for them, because they think they're better than you. In fact, to cheer for a school that rejected you is the very definition of pathetic.

But we've been over all this before and some of you will disagree and some of you will agree and no one will ever decide on anything.

I can't believe every person in this thread has missed the point.

Mac wasn't saying he didn't WANT to be in the Big East. Every coach desires to be at the highest level possible. He said HAD HE KNOWN they were going to the Big East, he'd have never taken the job. Meaning that he saw the funding and support as adequate for CUSA but NOT for the Big East.

You all are reading it completely wrong. I hope we end up with a great coach and a great team, but Seth himself said unless the team gets a huge influx of funding we're going to be Big East bottom dwellers in perpetuity.

The BAC level is too low and needs to be raised to 0.10 at the minimum. LaRussa was more fatigued than drunk IMO... but now it makes headline news for it. Even he hadn't hurt anyone, why can't the cops pull the car over to the parking lot, get him a hotel room, and tell him to get his keys at the station the next day. It's all about money though for the court system.

Obviously, you don't know anyone that has been killed by a drunk-driver or if you do, you just don't care.

More highway deaths are caused by drivers with .01-.03% BAC than .08 or .09 (1.7% to 1.4% according to the NHTSA). Of course, 76% are caused by sober drivers.

MADD is petitioning Florida to lower the DUI number to .05%, btw, and word from Tallahassee is they're in favor.

Congrats! They look like they'll be fantastic. Really looking forward to seeing them on the field.

Kentrel is an outstanding player! Also, just a great person to be around. I have him in a couple of my classes and he is fun to be around. Always a smile on his face.

KG really embodies the student-athlete ideal to me. He worked hard in my class, was never absent, and always had a positive attitude. Every time I see him on campus he comes up to say hi, and I regularly see him working with students in his other classes on outside assignments, etc. He's a good kid, and I really look forward to seeing what he can do next year with a strong supporting cast.

wow, i thought this topic was dead...

anyway... i dont wanna spill my life story, but sometimes as bad as u wanna do soemthing if u dont have the financial ability to do so it doesnt matter...

and again i do root for usf... just not nearly on the same level as osu... i agree with u, that u should not root agaisnt ur school, but u dont have to be a die hard fan of the team...

And i will say again, if u think u have the right to tell me or anyone who i can or cant root for, u have issues...

If u would ever like to discuss this in person as opposed to being an "online rambo", i work at the usf gym...

Just out of sake of giving you advice, I will simply say that if you ever want to be taken seriously in a debate, work on your spelling and grammar. It decimates any argumentative credibility you have when you sound like a ten-year-old.

But, then, I can't fathom one reason a person could ever find to cheer for Ohio State unless they went there. They represent everything that is wrong about college athletics.

I just say if anyone actually thinks they have the right to tell someone who they are allowed to root for and who they are not, this person has personal issues and are as close minded as any human can be... I mean thats like telling someone what girl to like... come on...

If you're married to one girl, I certainly would tell you it's inappropriate to be interested in a different one. And yet that's what happens when you cheer for a school that isn't your alma mater.

If you like a college team, you should attend that college. If you don't, clearly you're really not that big a fan. If you can't get in, that team has just rejected you. If you continue to follow them, it's like asking a girl out who says "you're not good enough for me" and yet still following her around like a pathetic little dog.

If you can't be with the one you love, honey, love the one you're with.

360 version sucks compared to the regular Xbox version, IMHO. The lack of stadiums, proper replay set, and other missing features are what bother me.

Anyway, NCAA comes out beginning of August/end of July every year. The release date has, surprisingly, moved up every year a small amount.

If he goes to Vandy he's choosing academics.  Why would he choose a sport over academics?

I'm at USF because of academics. I'm here, on a USF sports site, as a USF sports fan. It is an alma mater, albeit not my initial alma mater, and thus it's a part of me, and that's why I cheer for the Bulls. (Please don't ask me anything about Eastern Michigan.)

People wouldn't know the teams traditions and history..hell, after they've learned them they'd probably move and have to learn new ones, that'd be frustrating.

Look, I moved here and adopted the Devil Rays in no time. If I can adopt the Devil Rays, it shouldn't be so hard for people to adopt the Bulls (insert team here). It doesn't take much effort to learn about the home team.

And "Be there through think and thin" applies to the NFL?  Not to baseball, the NBA and college?  Some people make being a fan so complicated when it doesn't have to be.

Baseball has a de facto system that ensures some measure of success for the rich. It's not a balanced system like in the NFL. The NBA is a bit better, but the lottery system ensures that occasionally you'll have four- or five- year runs of success and failure for given teams. College is the most imbalanced of all; not only do the rich teams have more money NOW than the poor teams, the system explicitly funnels more money to the rich teams than the poor teams.

That's why cheering for a team like UF if you didn't go there is so unbelievably lame. They have tons of money, the NCAA ensures they get even more every year, so what is the point of even cheering for them? They are provided so much opportunity before the season even begins that I can't see how anything other than a national championship would be satisfying.

Compare this to the NFL where there is revenue sharing and a direct-impact draft system (baseball has a direct draft but as we Devil Ray fans have observed there is no guarantee that #1 draft picks will eventually even be major league contributors).

If you can't get it through your head why it's wrong to cheer for another school (at your level) while a student of one school then I'm probably never going to be able to explain it to you. (Certainly there's nothing wrong with cheering for the Spartans as a USF student/alumnus. They don't directly compete with each other for students, recruits, or otherwise.) Be true to your school, now.

Bobcat, your calling into question national loyalty and a political beliefs system vs. a group of men/women who play a game on the weekend.

First of all, it's "you're." You (and others on this board) keep making that mistake and it's driving me crazy. It reflects pretty badly on our university that its students and alumni don't know a basic of grammar learned in the fifth grade.

Anyway, having gotten that pet peeve out of the way, I'll simply answer that "national loyalty" (i.e. belonging to a country) is as socially constructed a concept as the team you cheer for. There's no difference. Indeed, one might say the team you cheer for is more a part of your identity, as that is a personal decision you take upon yourself. You had zero control over the country you were born in; the idea that you should support it regardless of all other events is something society taught you.

Am I supossed to tell a kid that grew up an Alabama fan, went to every home game, his parents were 3 generations of alumni that he can no longer root for Alabama because he didn't have the scores to get in and has to now go to UAB?

I would say that you have demonstrated the perfect example. Yes, I would say unequivocally that he should stop cheering for Alabama. THEY TOLD HIM THEY DIDN'T WANT HIM. Indeed, they told him that despite his long family history of being Crimson, they STILL didn't want him. Why would you support someone who rejected you in such a demeaning manner?

(Or, on the flipside, one would simply say that if you liked that team so much you wouldn't have f*cked around so much in high school. It's not like Alabama is hard to get into.)

Let me reverse it he's a genius and gets a full ride to Vanderbilt. Does he have ot quit being an Alabama fan because of that?

If he loves Alabama that much, he'll go to Alabama. If he doesn't go to Alabama, then clearly he didn't have the love for it he thought he did. If he goes to Vandy, absolutely he should quit being an Alabama fan. They're in the same conference!

You dance with the one that brought you. Supporting a team is not monolithic and everlasting; this is just something the businesses that sell you crap want you to believe. It's not true.

That is just one senerio of millions that are out there. Professional teams, large colleges, small college, minor leagues, national team, amatuer teams, whatever fancies you...One Rule: Be there threw thick and thin. Plain and simple.

Seriously, man, do some spell-checking next time. Augh. I will agree with you on one point. "Be there through thick and thin" applies to the NFL. The NFL has a level of parity unmatched by any sports organization in the world, and thus I don't really begrudge someone holding onto their home affiliation. After all, there's no incentive to do so; teams generally don't stay "great" for very long, though that's changed a bit in the past few years. Certainly my hometown Browns haven't been good at all since their return to the league.

This thread has gotten retarded. One problem so many have on this board is they always are seeking to define what a "fan" is.

One person is not as good of a USF fan as another because of _____.

If you never attended a school, you shouldn't be a fan of that school (especially if your a Gator or Nole)

There is ONE requirement in my book from a "real" fan:

1) Support the team through thick and thin.

I don't care if your from Tampa and like the Yankees. I don't care if your from NY and like the Devil Rays. I don't care if you went to USF and like UF. Or if you went to UF and like USF. As long as when you call yourself a fan of a team you actually support them in the good and bad times so be it, it's your choice.

For each person that is a fan of a particular team your going to have a unique and very personal story as to why that person is a fan of a team. Does it really matter why they are a fan of that team? Seriously, I know Rizzo's commitment to USF is huge, and if his commitment to the Cubs is even 10% of that it's enough in my book to consider him a fan.

This thread should be locked because all it does is lead to an aweful discusson that takes the word fan beyond levels that a some of the greatest philosphers would. One rule: Support your team through thick and thin...no other reason to have to explain yourself.

You're playing fast with identity. Unfortunately, you're calling for a relativism that simply can't fly if we're going to establish any meaning whatsoever into identifying with a given team. Does it matter why a person is a fan of a team? Absolutely. For example, if I told you I'm an American citizen, but I'm cheering for the terrorists in Iraq, would you say "that's okay, it doesn't matter why you cheer for a given side, just that you do it enthusiastically." To play on the title of this thread, is it okay if I cheer for the South in the Civil War if I'm from Ohio?

To cheer for Mexico against the U.S. when they play in Raymond James next month?

Once you start drawing lines, you can't be a relativist. John Dickinson was a delegate to the Continental Congress from Philadelphia. He was a Loyalist and a believer in the British Constitution. He opposed the signing of the Declaration of Independence, but he realized one thing: he was a citizen of a colony that was about to go to war. He could have chosen the side of Britain, almost assured of victory in war, but he instead joined George Washington's Continental Army, where he defended New Jersey from British attack.

He had been raised in one tradition, but came to realize who he WAS and where he LIVED. UF : USF :: Britain : Colonies. They represent the boot that's been held over our heads for as long as we've existed. And why would you want to cheer for an entity that has carried the silver spoon in its mouth (and I'm speaking to all UF, FSU, Ohio State, Yankees, Red Sox, etc fans) for so very long, while we've survived on meager scraps?

It's like playing Dr. Mario VS but playing on level 1 while your competitor is on level 10, then gloating in victory.

Yes, sir, it matters why you're a fan of a team, and in my mind, if you don't cheer for alma mater first, you are traitorous to the first degree. It's slapping your mom in the face. That's what alma mater means. NOURISHING MOTHER.

Honestly, the "Big 5" needs to invite Drexel in. They beat Villanova, beat St. Joe's, beat Temple, lost to Penn, beat Syracuse this year. They've been better than La Salle for years.

There aren't really any schools for me to teach at around here. I'll end up at a low-major place like South Alabama or Stetson, at least for now. Once I've written a few books I might have a shot at a place like USF.

I have some pretty strong feelings about this subject.

I'm of the opinion that you support your undergraduate alma mater first and foremost and in all circumstances. If you're an Ohio State fan and cheering for them in a bar in Tampa because you went there, you SHOULD be.

If you're an Ohio State fan even though you went somewhere else to school, you should be shot since there's no conceivable reason to be an Ohio State fan.

If you're a Yankee fan because you grew up in the Bronx and recently moved to Tampa, that's great, and I support you. If you're a Yankee fan under ANY OTHER CIRCUMSTANCES (If you grew up in any other borough, on LI, Yonkers, Jersey, anything else you should be a Mets fan) you're a loser.

I grew up in Ohio cheering for the Browns, Indians, Cavs, and Red Wings. I still cheer for those teams, but not at the expense of my local teams. If the Tribe are in the Trop, I'm wearing my CC jersey. When the Browns played the Bucs this year, I cheered for the Pewter Pirates.

It's not that difficult. If you are a permanent or semi-permanent (My time here will span four years; I consider that permanent) resident, you ought to be cheering for the home team. That is the end-all be-all trope of being an American sports fan. Continue cheering for your team back home, sure; but not at the expense of the home team.

Certainly my biggest issue is with people cheering for colleges they never attended, especially if they later attended a different school. It's easy to say "people living in Tampa should cheer for USF" because we're the only D-I school here. You can't force that on someone living in Philadelphia; should they cheer for Penn? Drexel? St. Joe's, Villanova, Temple? LaSalle?

Good is not in the man who identifies with the winning team. It is in the team with a chance for moving forward; a team for which [for example] beating WVU in Morgantown is a great experience or [for example] taking three in a row at home against the Red Sox is a cause for celebriation.

I like the idea, and used to own a '72 Super (bright orange, original color... used to be my mom's. A fun car to have when you're 16, and safe, when you consider how well it handled and that it couldn't break 73mph).

This is Pantone 343.

Well, I have to disagree here.  I've never lived in a dorm (5th year of college).  They are over-cramped and over-priced.  Also, aren't you also required  to buy an over-priced meal plan that no one (that I know of) ever fully uses anyway?  I went to UF for a year, but even if I lived on campus I would not have been a Gator fan.  I have been at USF for 4 years and lived at 2 different places off campus and am now a major USF fan.  I'm only a few minutes away from campus.  I don't really care if I'm called a commuter.  I buy the parking pass, I go to class, and I'm about to be a USF alum.  What difference does it make that I didn't overpay for a dorm and meal plan?  Maybe that's just me.

Also, I know Penn State doesn't even allow underclassmen to have cars.  I sure as hell wouldn't want to go there.  I like to be able to go anywhere I want, including road games and to parties on other Florida campuses.  Disney World is nice as well.  Does a shuttle go to busch gardens?  maybe it does...whatever.

I wasn't allowed to have a car on campus my freshman year either. The point is that you stay on campus, come to love campus, enjoy all the things campus has to offer. If you find yourself wanting to do things that aren't on- or near- campus, then the university is really letting you down insofar as activity options goes.

Nobody has or needs a car in Ann Arbor, Manhattan (Kansas), College Station, Ames, Bloomington, etc.

I agree that dining hall costs are absurd, but they have always been that way and they serve a vital social function. Eating in a dining hall a) means someone else makes the food, leaving more time in your day for studying (ha) or socializing and means you're eating in a large room with lots of people, which opens doors for social interaction, etc.

The problem with the status quo is it pretty much creates an on-campus anti-ghetto whereas students who like to drink live off-campus and those who don't live in the dorms. USF really needs to work on promoting the college experience as through living on campus, or at least they need to once they build more rooms. The inconveniences of living on-campus are part of the learning process; learning to get along with other people, occasionally skirt the rules, et cetera.

I think it's awesome that you're a huge fan, and we need more kids like you. But you bring up Penn State, and I want everyone to think about how quickly Penn State sold out its Outback Bowl allotment in a year when school ticket sales were down for nearly every non-BCS bowl. The experience of living on-campus, in a remote area, creates an attachment that lasts for a LIFETIME. The people you're forced into living arrangements with become your friends... for a LIFETIME. I'm not saying this doesn't happen at USF, because it does. I'm saying it becomes an event, or a rite of passage.

I nearly went to Notre Dame. My best friend actually did. His experience living in the dorms for three years (ND students are required to live on-campus through their sophomore year, but most stay for at least three) is reflected in the people who are now closest to him; look at how many weddings he's been in of guys who lived in his hall his freshman year, including his roommate (for whom he was best man). I know that Notre Dame is really nothing comparable to USF, but it's an example of what kind of impact dorm living can have on building relationships that are rooted in the alma mater.

I'm glad you left UF, but I'm hoping that had you stayed there and graduated, you'd have become a Gator fan. I hate Gator Fan, but if there is any one truth I hold onto, it's that no university ever comes before your undergraduate alma mater.

It will be interesting to see how this works out. We are unique compared to all other BCS schools... we're the only true commuter school among them.

TRUE commuter school? Per CJL, we have more on-campus housing than FSU. A better term would be the only perceived commuter school.

I'm not sure it's the commuter school thing that gets me. I hope we keep building dorms. We need a lot more of them.

A school like UC requires all first-year students to live on-campus unless they have a special exemption to stay at home with their parents. At most residential universities, that applies to sophomores too... even Ohio State. It's not the commuter nature of USF that irks me to a degree, it's how many first-year students live with friends in apartments. That's really no different than commuting. Most of them drive to campus anyway.

If you drive to campus, you're a commuter student, in my mind, and if you drive to class you're not getting the college experience -- and part of that experience is being a MEMBER of the campus and thus the spirit for the university grows from within.

I hope that one day the university can grow its on-campus residence hall capacity so we can get on board with a similar policy. There's a great deal lost when you don't live in a residence hall for at least a year. It defines the college experience. Remove the experience and it's just a degree, and if it's just a degree the intangibles like support for athletic teams disappear.

It will be interesting to see how this works out. We are unique compared to all other BCS schools... we're the only true commuter school among them. UC has a lot of commuter students, but not to the degree we do. If we can overcome that, we'll be golden. I hope we can.

I did the season math, not conference.

Then Bobcat's numbers are incorrect, right?

Jesus Christ, my numbers are right, I got them straight from the SIO. I did happen to ATTEND most of those games, after all.

You also have to keep in mind that we had at least two 50-point offensive performances each year on the part of getting to play UCF and Kent State.