USFreak

I've got a great idea.  Since none of us really have the power to determine how far this series will go.  And since the excuses to keep it are getting as weak as the reasons not to, why don't we just let it die and allow the powers that be, who've done a wonderful job thus far guiding this program, decide what to do about this series.

Freak, you may want to wait around for a few years until UCF can beat us, but maybe the bigger guys would prefer to find other games, and opportunities.  I know the Midshipmen are still waiting for that day against Notre Dame.  Let's allow Leavitt, Woolard, and Genshaft decide.  They've done a great job thus far, and I trust them completely.  If they want this series to go on into perpetuity then so be it, but if they don't I wouldn't blame them either!

Anyway, this is getting sillier, and sillier.  Let's move onto UL, which is a bigger game then UCF right now, no matter how anyone tries to spin it otherwise.

OK, I'll let them do that.  Turns out they weren't waiting for my opinion (or anyone on this board's opinion) anyhow.  

Again, it doesn't matter to me either way what is decided on.  I am legitimately curious how the UCF game was received by the students and fraternities.  Maybe an Oracle writer or someone will read a thread here and do an article.   I've been impressed with the attendance of the students this year.  

That's big.  So many times these boards are about spewing negativity.  I actually like when you can look at an attended event and complement a group that has really been downright ghostly in the past.  Maybe it means USF has cleared a hurdle or maybe it just means they liked the UCF game.  

I know you have your one opinion of the game and you'll stick to it.  You are close-minded to it and hate UCF and want the 2 for 1 (as would anyone).  I think I've read enough to know your stance on the game and UCF.  I'm a little more open-minded to it and sorta enjoy reading different opinions on it. Forgive me while I listen to others give theirs.  I've enjoyed reading Gary's, Bullheaded, TripleBs, etc.  

If you don't like the thread....don't read it (plus, I think I can multitask enough to talk about UCF and Louisville...heck, I'll stretch the limits of my multitasking and even talk Miami).

Frankly, I think it's more message-board types saying "we're too good for this to be a rivalry." As was noted earlier in the thread, a LOT of current students cared enough to go to the game. They're the ones whose desires ought to carry the most weight.

Besides, status can change, and it can change quickly. It's not so long ago that UCF was having good I-A success and we were losing to the likes of Elon and Western Kentucky. A long term series, if played, will likely be more even than it looks at the moment.

I agree.  Anything above a Top 10 team can get taken down by another competitive team on the right day.  Put it in their stadium and you never know.  There is no reason UCF can't become a competitive CUSA team.   It looks far off now, but let's face it -- they are at their worst right now.

I've seen enough MAC/MWC/CUSA teams beat teams they never should beat in years gone by.

A rivalry will evnetually manifest itself but it's going to take some time and playing games of significance, ie games that mean something ....... Look at the Bucs/Eagles in the pros. While it's not the Eagles/Cowboys, it's a quieter rivalry because of the meaningful games played. Same with FSU/Miami, that rivalry got going because those games MEANT something to BOTH teams in the national championship picture year after year.......... Say what you want but the USF/UCF game really only MEANT something to one school.

True, but many of the games have been going on for 3 or 4 years already.  Like Louisville this weekend.  Will it develop to a rivalry?  Will it charge up the students?  

I don't know, but it seemed like there was more energy potential in last Sat's game to build on.  

I guess I'm curious if it is just message-board types declaring "we're too good for this to be a rivalry" or do all students and folks associated with the game feel the same way and never want to see it played again.

You'd think it would, but my bet is that UCF's ego's will just not go for a deal like that....  O'Leary even went as far as saying he didn't consider us BCS yet.  

I think we should just tell them that sure we'll play again, but 2 for 1, starting at our home in 07', skip 08', then resume in 09 and 10.  Something like that works well for USF, it gives people the home pop in attendance they want, and we use our leverage in the proper manner.

Unfortunately, I think we'll hit an impasse because from all the posturing the powers that be in Orlando have a false-sense of reality.  They just don't want to believe it, and will refuse to agree to a contract that would symbolize it.  If that's the case then let's stick with FAMU, and FIU, or move to FAU.

They'll probably call Rep. Constantdrip to see if he can do more legislative moves, but my bet is after this beating some will just tell him to leave it alone.

Yes, but I suppose that is their problem.  It would almost be funny if USF approached the media with that deal.  

"USF extends 2 for 1 offer to UCF".  I know it isn't their style, but it would be funny.

Think of the headlines.  :-)

I would deliberately NOT attend the game next year to "cast my vote" as saying I personally do not want USF to start a rivalry with UCF.

Unfortunately, if that's what it takes, people Not showing up to keep this bore of a match up from continuing, then that's what I'll do.

Is it really more boring than Cincinnati?  Politically correct answers not accepted.  That game may have bowl implications, but on paper I'd rather see UCF play in Tampa than Cinci.  

Obviously Cinci is in the same conference, but Cincy has been a 'blah' draw for USF for years.  You talk about no shows.  

The bowl picture may make it well-attended (or even worse this year), but USF folks clearly never get pumped up for that one.  It will be interesting to see if UConn and Rutgers have that same effect next year.

No one is saying not to play them again, but we're BCS now, and we need to act like it.   You don't go asking the first girl that comes across to be your wife, nor do you create a marriage like this until you're certain it's what you want to be in.

Rivalries are different from playing UCF.  I am all for playing them so long as they sign 2 for 1 deals or something similar, and we have the opportunity to rotate and stagger the games (not every season).  You are doing the University a disservice by trying to force people into believing a rivalry must be necessary to play them.  We can play them and it not be a rivalry game, or at least they can be the ones that get excited about it.

So what is it FReak?  Are you OK if we play them but on our own terms or are you demanding everyone make this a rivalry, and regardless of our leverage position we automatically buy into a 1 and 1 (home and away) annualized series?  That's the bigger question, would you be happy if we played them once in a while to maintain some regional interest, and a semblence of a rivalry or are you demanding terms and conditions on your athletic department?

I for one see very little distinction right between UCF, FAU, and FIU.  UCF might bring a few more fans, but if USF keeps winning we won't need UCF's paltry fans, we'll build our OWN TRADITIONS!

Yes, 2 for 1 or 3 for 1.  That goes without saying, though.

I'm not sure who predicted nobody would show for this game. I think most believed this would be one of if not the highest attended games ever. However, this was also the first time we've played and therefore I don't think you can really judge the popularity of this as a series based on the results of the first game after a 9 year buildup. We kicked the crap out of them, if it happens again next year I'm guessing most usf fans/students will be as excited for this series as they are for famu...without the band's concert appeal.

I don't know, it just seems to me that if ucf showed up in the numbers claimed then we saw a somewhat higher then average attended game (on our part) with the total attendance reflecting the huge interest on the part of ucf fans. The results have us enjoying the "I told you so" feeling explaining the huge "internet" activity. But just as going to the game, if next year is the same then I think there just won't be the same excitement as this time around. Really I think the only thing that would keep this series interesting over the long haul will be for us to lose next year and unless things DRASTICALLY change then I don't see that happening, on the contrary I think next year will be the year we really shine.

I just think there is something different to this one.  Clearly some USF fans (alums mainly on these boards) hate UCF.  USF has gone to great lengths to avoid the game and the media has picked up on that avoidance.

USF is clearly avoiding them to not validate them.  That, in itself, shows some recognition of their program and makes them a little different than any other school out there.  

The media, the fans and even the students have picked up on it as well.  Look at all the articles written.  In most of them the words, "USF didn't want this game played" shows up in there.   Well, USF didn't want it played, but there is some inherent validation and attention played to the UCF program in those lines.

I don't know.  I think you can predict nobody will show because USF beat them two times in a row, but I just don't know.  I heard a lot from folks saying that UCF would only bring like 3000 and that USF students wouldn't care.  The thing about dominating a team like that is it creates more anger for the underdog and more opportunity to rub their noses in it for the winner.

I think USF students would drive over there just to taunt.  Again, my original point is what do the students think about the game?  I don't know.  I know that the internet community certainly was more charged up about it than any game this year -- as was the media (Tampa/Orlando/Lakeland media).

I think the breakdown of fans is definately a good idea. UCF fans keep claiming they brought approx 12,000 fans. Not sure what the actual number is but it was pretty clear at the game that they were here in force. The reason I bring this up is that who really cares about THOSE fans when we are talking about what OUR school wants? If you use the 12k number then what does the game look like? 45,000-12,000=33,000 fans. If you figure most visiting schools bring a few hundred fans or maybe a thousand on a good day then lets bring that number to about 34,000. Oh and of course we can't forget that we always inflate our numbers (funny I haven't heard anyone from ucf arguing about it this ONE game lol) so let's lop off about 3k for that and were at 31,000.

Definitely good attendance and the student turnout was good as well but that number isn't mind numbingly larger then the average games we have against decent opponents. The other thing I keep hearing is that nobody expects our school to travel nearly as well to the game next year. If that ends up the case then the attendance numbers point to just one more example of how this rivalry is more important to them then it is us IMO.

It will be interesting to see what USF takes over there next year.   Everybody predicted no attendance for this one yet it was the biggest on record.  I'm apt to doubt the prognosticators.

Looking around this board (and the other one) I'm pretty sure everybody on here (and the other one) within driving distance will make the trip.  That isn't saying anything for the total, but it will say that if you are a follower you'll put the 90 miles on your car.  I imagine a horde of students will feel the same way.

48-50k I think is a realistic bet.  The breakdown -- 43,000 desperate Knight fans that love this game.  7,000 Bulls fans.

If the Knights actually win a few games between now and then....well, Lord knows.  Hope, for them, would pack the house.

Look, I hate to beat a dead horse (Knight), but I know what I saw.  Within 50 feet of where I parked, and within about 75 feet of several trash cans was a pile of bottles strewn on the ground that numbered close to 150.  And, yes, that trash belonged to part of the UCF contingent.  I witnessed a couple of trash cans being kicked over, and there was broken glass absolutely everywhere.  I've been out there in lots 6/8 every single year, and it never, NEVER looked like it did after the game the other night.  I know several others on the board who have personally told me the same story.  Maybe the TSA is used to the lots looking like that after the Bucs games, but it has never been like that for one of our games.  No exaggerations here.

Maybe they'll stop harrassing people with footballs long enough to clean it up.  

You know, I've been thinking, and I've been trying to figure out what bothers me about all this. And here it is:

I'm sick and tired of OTHER PEOPLE telling us what our traditions should and shouldn't be.

USF's traditions, whatever they may be, need to spring from the desires of USF's students, alums, fans, athletes, and leaders. Not columnists, politicians, and political entities that have no affiliation with our school.

I think there is something to be said for that Gary.

Has anybody asked the students what they think?  I'd be curious if they actually enjoyed the game.  They seemed to turn out for it and actually be fired up.  

Everybody always complains about the student attendance, but when they show it might be interesting to find out why.

After all, these are your future fans that can really bump up the fanbase.  You'll get old time alums in the mix, but no substitute for getting fans to care about the product while they are actually there.  

I'm sure Kosha Irby is doing much of that now, but you look at the student attendance at that game and there are some lessons to be learned.

That is so hilarious.  What happened to the donut part?

Freak... if you send money, send via a money order. Ronnie said he didn't have access to his bank account from where he is... I sent a money order that is due to arrive tomorrow for $100. Thanks for helping him out.

OK, will do.  The address above is still valid?

Thanks Terry and great job putting this together.

I am pleased to announce the PayPal total has reached $747.27 in donations to Ronnie and his family.

Thanks to those that have donated.  It's not too late to help out.

Hey Brad, we over at USFBullsEYE are wanting to donate $250.00 to help Ronnie and his family.  Is the easiest way to do that PayPal or via check to you?

I've tried Paypal before and it seems to want like 10% of the total....is there a better way or am I doing something incorrect?

Man, I just joined rival, but scout is looking better to me at this point.  Maybe I should switch.   ???

Zonald, hey this is Chris from USFBullsEYE....I don't want to clutter up this board with a response, but I don't want to not respond either.  If you get a chance I've put a post on the main board at our site in response.

Chris,

One season I was on local TV in Tampa for a news spot prior to the game on how extravagant tailgates could get.  We had a real nice production grills, TVs, lighting, drinks, etc.   If you ever want to know how it was done in the I-AA days, look me up!   ;D

Got any pictures? :-)

I'm putting together...

I have a few, but if you fit the bill and are interested please shoot me an email:

usfbullseye@yahoo.com

I'm looking for people that really go 'over the top' -- ex. gourmet, Big screen TV, satellite, etc.

Thanks guys!

Thanks to those who replied.  I appreciate it.  I need one or two more -- a student or preferably a person that really classes it up.  I've seen a few wine and cheesers out there (although I doubt they are message board readers).....if anybody can shoot me an email you'll be forever immortalized....well, forever is a long time, but you get the picture.

usfbullseye@yahoo.com

Thanks,

Chris

I'm putting together...

I have a few, but if you fit the bill and are interested please shoot me an email:

usfbullseye@yahoo.com

I'm looking for people that really go 'over the top' -- ex. gourmet, Big screen TV, satellite, etc.

Thanks guys!

Exactly.  Stats don't say the whole story.  The nation's leading rusher last year was a guy from North Texas.  ANd he's not as good as Andre Hall although I'm sure No. Texas fans will disagree.  

That's why I say the kid from FSU is the state's best back but people are arguring and throwing Andre's stats compared to his.  Again, stats doesn't tell the whole story.  

Yes, but for North Texas he's getting the job done.  Just like McNair at Alcorn, just like Detmer at BYU, Ward at FSU....

These guys are great players.  

Tough argument because when it comes down to it you are looking at how the player performs against the 11 or 12 teams on the schedule.   You don't necessarily care if he would beat Leon Washington in a footrace, the Battle of the Network Stars obstacle course or a intense game of thumb wrestling.

I think the board is trying to say he is a great back.  You are trying to say he'll go low in the draft.  Who knows.   The argument could go on forever.  It is nice to see him getting some major media attention, though.  When is the last time that happened for a Bull?

Scott Baio -- Greatest tailback of all time and Battle of Network Stars champion

If someone wants to throw stats out there, I guess Timmy Chang of Hawai'i is the greatest college QB of all time then huh?   He owns like every college passing mark out there breaking a lot of Ty Detmer's records and he won the Heisman.  

Why not throw Steve McNair in there?  DII Alcorn State.  Big Records.  The guy is a duffer, hunh.

Andre just kept doing his thing until people stopped him.  Turns out they didn't stop him.  It isn't like the guy got all his yards in garbage time.

What Bulldoug was saying is that he hasn't seen a back hit the hole like that with the exception of ****, Payt and Smith.  In other words, he's saying that he's up there with those guys.  i'll give Hall that.  He does hit the hole pretty **** fast.  Needs breakaway speed though.  Especially at his size.  

I've reread a few of VR's posts and it seems that he wants an asterisk next to the name Andre Hall.*

* Played in Conference USA for one year and Big East for one year so even though he has great stats and a is getting a lot of press please don't consider him to be a great player because there are better players on USC, FSU, etc. that play against better competition week in and week out.

I'll agree with your premise, but it is sort of tough to knock a college player for being a great college player.  The draft, and later the NFL, will sort out what level of 'great' player he was, but in the meantime I'm not sure how you can compare him to the other guys.  

Is the point of it all his bankability in the eyes of NFL scouts?  Heisman dreams?  I don't know.  I think maybe you end the argument when you say to this point he is the best guy USF has ever had suit up back there.

I'm fairly certain if you compared them in standardized drills at a combine or something similar many of the guys would outrank Andre.  But I'm not sure what that means at this point in this season.  I think the bulk of these guys want Andre to play in the NFL, but right now they want him to run over Big East competition.

What Bulldoug was saying is that he hasn't seen a back hit the hole like that with the exception of ****, Payt and Smith.  In other words, he's saying that he's up there with those guys.  i'll give Hall that.  He does hit the hole pretty **** fast.  Needs breakaway speed though.  Especially at his size.  

Dang Vanilla Rice.  I guess what the heck is your point?  Andre Hall is not a NFL caliber back?  

To say he is not up there with the guys mentioned will be settled on the field this year.  People said Charlie Ward wasn't big enough to be an NFL QB.  Guess what, they were right, but that didn't stop him from tearing it up in the college ranks.

The point is that Andre Hall showed some great things last year.  He's small(ish), but he time after time found ways to stay on his feet and just get extra yards.  You figure the second tackler would get him and then it was the third and fourth.  He did these things with no semblence of a passing game.  None.  5 yard routes with the ball thrown in the dirt does not aid a running game.  

The fact that he put up so many yards when every defense knew he was getting the ball makes it more incredible and he actually had the opportunity for more (see 2nd half of Army game).  

The guy is verstatile, sturdy and really wasn't as quick in 2004 as he will be in 2005 (I have an interesting quote on that you'll see down the line).  He tore up the JuCo ranks.  

I'm not going to argue with you because you seem to have your opinion, but to not call Andre Hall a great back is sort of a smack in the face.   You play against the competition you line up against.  Playstation matchups are for Playstation.  

I'm not sure what you can do to take the 1357 away or the 3000+ in JUCO.  What else does he have to do?  A backflip in the endzone?

both sides on this make some good points and both sides really overstate things on other points.

Turkey Shizzler remains one of my all time favorite handles.  

I have one somewhere with Andrickk Frazier on the cover.

I still have my one with Chucky.  "Best Player in Florida" it reads.  

 Trust me, on a football Saturday, most students are going to Ben Hill Griffin Stadium instead of the Purple Porpoise.  We need that kind of drive on campus.  

Are they mutually exclusive?  Why can't you do both?  

Good points, but considering the offense we surrendered against Memphis, and Pitt the defense was just as much at fault, but by that time some of the guys on the defense had cashed in.   Everyone on this board would say with complete certainty that Steve Spurrier runs a **** good offense and has a good college scheme but i can bet you if he had a QB play like PJ did most of the time last year his offense would have fared no better.  Impossible to look good calling plays when you have trouble passing the ball.   However, I will always contend that if last year's defense played the to the level expected of them, and like our defenses were playing from 99-03 then we would have definitely won 6 and probably 7 games and gone bowling inspite of the lethargic QB play.

Not to split hairs, but when you say "if last year's defense played the to the level expected of them, and like our defenses were playing from 99-03 then we would have definitely won 6 and probably 7 games"

I just don't think they had the experience or personnel to have done so.   MLB and the two safety positions were glaring issues, but the D-Line really never got it going either.  That magnified the problems two rows behind.

A lot of it can be attributed to injuries, but depth is part of the equation as well.