Meeps

7 minutes ago, Brad said:

I would.  There is no way running the table (the kiddie table) is the same as the P5.  That, would be unfair.  Nothing schedules get you nothing.  UCF's run is fun, but empty and meaningless.  Wait til someone in C-USA or Sun Belt runs their table.  

If there is any unfairness, it is you don't get to play in their conference with their schedules and see how you fare.  But to cry about not being in the big league's playoff is misplaced.  

So what is the point in playing in Division I football? By your very definition, usf literally has no chance to make the playoffs. The strength of record as the sole evidence a team is undeserving to be in the playoffs only holds up when a team has yet to prove they are the real deal.

That was answered when they beat Auburn in the Peach Bowl. While the Auburn win doesn't necessarily count for the 2018 football schedule - that was the eye test right there. When most of your team is returning the following season including your star QB, they deserve the benefit of the doubt. If a MAC or CUSA team goes undefeated and soundly beats a top team in their bowl then they deserve the benefit of the doubt the following season. When a team loses said star QB and performs better than they did initially (Memphis #1 win) with the star QB, they again deserve the benefit of the doubt.

UCF decimated Pitt who went on to play in the ACC title game by approximately the same margin Clemson did. Notre Dame almost lost to that same Pitt team. Both Clemson and Pitt are playing in the CFP.

Clemson's signature win was 7-5 Boston College. You can drink all the ESPN koolaid all you want, but both ND and Clemson's schedule are artificially inflated to look better than they really are and the misinformed sheep willingly believe that is not the case. But everyone is entitled to their opinion, however wrong it is.

5 hours ago, Grateful Dad said:

I have always hated Central State's fans.  Rude, immature, delusional.  Friends don't let friends go to UCiF.  I understand that.  But, I swear if you go back to the Central State's football message board during their last winless streak, you can read the same posts as we are reading here.  Without first hand information, people are filling in the information void with their own speculation and it spirals as others detect the blood in the water.  Fire this one, fire that one.  This young man sucks, this one has no talent.  This coach is too old to be any good.  Personal insults and ridicule leveled at our own people.  We are eating our young.  If I were a rival, I could find more ammunition to use against us reading this message board than I could ever think of myself.

I wonder why our fans watch our games (yeah, I know, not enough fans for our liking).  Is it like most of Florida, where most fans have never set foot on their chosen team's campus (or any campus, for that matter) but get to ridicule other fans because someone gave them a T-shirt?  Or is there a true emotional attachment to the university?

If one is thinking of the long term progress of USF, I think a different approach is warranted.  Just take a breath.  For those of us who have been watching this team for years, we can't forget the good times and the bad times.  Bad times fade upon the next success.  We should be able to absorb seasons that fall short of our expectations without losing our upbringing.  I sure would never insult a man to his face the way that some on here have done with the beloved anonymity that the internet affords.  I can't imagine reading those things were they written about me.

To be a good investor, one must be mature and have a long term view, not being thrown off track by a temporary setback.  Same here.  Stomping our feet, calling for the end of people's careers, wanting it all NOW - this is not the action of someone concerned about the long term health of our team, but rather of one who cares about their own immediate satisfaction.

Some hide their foot stomping behind "Well, I just have higher expectations than you (making me a better fan).  You suck as a fan if you:

1. Like RJS and don't think we should build an OCS right now without the money and a bunch of other needs not met
2. Don't stand the whole game
3. Don't go to every home game
4. Don't go to every away game
5. Don't stay to sing a song that no one knows the words to
6. Don't want to fire a coach with a winning record
7. Don't believe that every sports writer's biggest career moment is the opportunity to slam USF
8. Don't believe our ADs don't try to schedule major teams because of course, everyone want to play USF

I don't have the football acumen that many on here have.  So, I try to (and this may be foreign to some of you) enjoy my team's games realizing that we won't win them all.  I remember when there was no football at USF.  I remember the great years of sell out crowds and exciting plays.  I tore my MCL watching one game by jumping up every good play.

Remember, our expectations are not reality.  We don't play the game.  We don't coach the game.  We are consumers of entertainment.  When your team's performance affects your life so negatively, you might have to work to re-prioritize. But no matter your approach, you don't have the skin in the game that the players and coaches have.  If you make a bad call, if you call for other's firings, if you are just plain wrong, there are no consequences.  If some here were held to the same standards that they hold others to, there would be a lot of fired fans.  But since these fans know that they will not be held to the same standard, it is easy to be harsh and label it as "high expectations".

If you can't change your circumstances ( and we as fans can't), you must change your thinking.  Love your university and enjoy the entertainment that these kids and coaches are trying to provide you.  After all, it really isn't all about you.  Let's keep  our maturity and class.  Get through the storm with dignity.  But quit yer bitchin'.

Had me until you said USF, I think you meant University of West Central Florida Community College or UWCFCC for short. Lol

2 minutes ago, puc86 said:

We still do a pretty good job of drawing you people to our board.

puc, no need to be bashful. I am here mainly because of you. And not because you make valid points.

1 hour ago, The Sheriff said:

It's a home game, you're undefeated, it's on national television and it's the Championship of the conference. A win places you in a NY6 bowl. A loss... you're potentially heading to Birmingham. You're telling me USF would have issues placing 55K or more fans in Raymond James? Just don't see it being an issue - look where we were with attendance when we were taking care of ranked opponents in 2007 and 2008. Stop giving their base excuses. Some tickets have dropped to $6 and many can be had for under $10. It's amazing to see how they're basically giving these tickets away... what a sad fan base. 

Just so I have this right...

1. usf should be able to fill up Ray Jay to max capacity based on events over a decade ago. K....

2. Nobody cares about the AAC, and thus the CCG. Yet, you'd still sell out... mmmkayy...

3. Even 7-0, you would be generous to say Ray Jay was near 50% capacity. Right.... so where are all these extra fans coming from?

You guys couldn't fill up the rest of stadium with free tickets after UCF outnumbered you all 2:1 for a HOME GAME knowing full well anything can happen in a rivalry game. Yes - I am 100% telling you usf would have issues filling up Ray Jay. The hilarity doesn't stop a TBP.

14 hours ago, The Sheriff said:

We can revisit this thread at 4 PM EST on Saturday... and then we'll see how dumb this thread really is. Expect a reply from me...

I can't wait... it'll probably go something like this. HAH! Their stadium only has 41k in it. Who cares that they won ANOTHER Conference Championship and are going to another NY6 Bowl. They didn't sell out their stadium!!!

I agree. Keep the whole staff!! Consistency and what not. lmao

32 minutes ago, BrassBulls12 said:

exactly and whats disrespectful is brushing it off. 

Kind of like using a player's death over a decade ago with the sole intent being to deflect the sad state of your football program now.

12 minutes ago, BrassBulls12 said:

So the fact that they would only pay if the Planchards stopped litigation is valid?

The point is that you are claiming the money wasn't there but there was based off of what they were able to pay the coaching staff. GOL was making 2 million dollars per year in 2008. Another question, did they do anything to GOL for this incident?  Its not about whether or not he "targeted" Ereck, he had an easily diagnosed blood disorder and no one on that field cared that he was struggling and staggering or even thought it was a problem. You can idolize and stand up for whoever you want, but find me one article arguing that UCF has done anything to handle this situation in the right way......Don't worry, i'll wait. 

That's typically how awards work. When the lawsuit is over. The Plancher's continued to fight until the Florida Surpeme Court decided not to rehear the case then UCF paid what they were legally responsible for. Just because you think UCF should have paid $10 million doesn't make them morally culpable, that's just your opinion. I raised the point that FSU most likely paid the Darling's (also several years after the fact, and gee - also died from a disease that was easy to test for) more than what they were legally responsible, because they have more discretionary income due to athletic affiliation; not because they are morally superior somehow. I have no idea what UCF had in the coffers when the jury voted to give the Plancher's $10 million and neither do you. And bringing up that UCF had other expenditures as evidence that they some how stock piled all this cash literally does nothing to further your point.

Regarding the sickle cell trait, if the staff knew first hand that he had sickle cell trait and the overexertion of training caused him to collapse - I can guarantee there would have been criminal charges filed. There weren't. Did they mishandle the situation when he was clearly having an adverse reaction to the workout? Of course. However, one of the players is quoted saying something to the effect that "if you didn't throw up during practice, you weren't practicing hard enough." So there were probably times where people passed out due to the brutal heat and tough workouts and what Ereck presented with wasn't out of the norm per se and may have been confused with just another person passing out. This is where the tragedy is and we dont have enough details of who knew what and when that person reacted to definitely pass judgement.  

Make no mistake, there are very few fans who idolize George O'Leary despite what he has done for the program.  I agreed that the situation for the Plancher's sucks but it's not about what is "right" or "wrong", it's about what was legally decided in the courts to which UCF has followed through. 

I get it. Your program has nothing to show for it, so the only thing left is to try and nit pick any little thing you can including using a player's death as evidence. However, that's just bush league and incredibly disrespectful to the family and has nothing to do with what is happening now or the game coming up this Friday.

2 minutes ago, BrassBulls12 said:

But you say all this like UCF really wanted to pay the Planchards more, but they didn't. It is evident buy the fact that there was no attempt to settle. The ten million the Planchards were awarded came from the courts for gross negligence, because this wasn't a tragedy, it was negligence, and they immediately appealed and fought for a decade to get the 200 thousand number. There is no law that states that the university can't give them more, it's their money, they can do with it as they please.  They had millions to pay the coaches and millions to build a stadium but only 200 thousand to give to a family of a player that their negligence killed. Speaks volumes about that they believe is the right thing to do. 

Do you know for a fact that UCF had the money but didn't want to pay them? You're making an assumption and passing it off like it's fact. Clearly UCF had more details on what happened than the article presented which could very well have been the basis for not settling. O'Learly was hired in 2004 and was fired in 2015. This happened in 2008. The stadium was built in 2007, again. This happened in 2008. Those costs don't just magically go away or get decreased because a player died. The 200k was disbursed recently because if you know anything about legal battles, they take a LONG time to resolve and it was paid out when the Plancher's case would not be reheard by the Florida Supreme Court. Again, not because UCF was withholding the 200k. Does it suck at this went down? Of course. But none of your points raised shows GOL deliberately went out of their way to target Ereck Plancher or UCF still owes a ton of money and is dragging it out in the court system. 

3 minutes ago, JTrue said:

1. It's called SNAP and I have a debit card. 

2. I pay Brad. TBP is not run by USF.

3. McDonald's is for suckers. Checkers all the way.

1. So you admit to having it. Well played.

2. I didn't need to know you pay Brad. What you two do is non of my business.

3. Agreed. Now I feel dirty.

3 minutes ago, BrassBulls12 said:

 

Quite the story spinner aren't we. Again you mis the point. UCF never had any plans of paying more than they were required to. How much do you think it cost them to fight this in court for a decade rather than attempt to settle? They had no problem paying 2 million for GOL to 0-12 and the 700,000 they spent buying his OC out. To top it off, all of that happened before they payed the 200,000 to the Planchard family which the article states happened " few months ago", keep in mind this article was published in 2017. 

I'm not missing any point. I've fleshed out the point pretty well. Meanwhile you are inserting irrelevant information (e.g. the money legally owed to a coach, the buyout etc...) that was paid out several years later as the basis to prove that UCF has some nestegg that they are deliberately withholding.

I'll spell it out for you again since you missed it the first time. The Planchers were awarded $10 million which they would have been entitled to if UCFAA was a private institution (hint: they're not) so UCF appealed. A jury sided with UCF that they are NOT a private organization. The Law states $200k is the max payout. The reason the money was paid out recently is that the Planchers have continued to fight for millions of dollars and the Surpreme court would not hear the case again. 

I have no idea what UCF spent to fight this, but it's irrelevant. The law states they were entitled to $200k. End of story. If you want to compare FSU to UCF in these situations then you would have to compare apples to apples from a financial standpoint. FSU's athletic budget dwarfs UCF's so they have more wiggle room on what they can spend.

Just now, JTrue said:

I said the same thing before I peed on your mom. I had asparagus for lunch.

Heh. This is probably one of the worst attempts at an insult i've ever seen. TBP donor huh? Do you pay usf in food stamps; because i'm pretty sure McDonald's employee's don't have much after taxes.

9 minutes ago, BrassBulls12 said:

 

It really all comes down to the first quote here. Nice try though

FSU makes just a tad more per year being in the ACC to have "whatever" funds to throw around than UCF does in the AAC. That opens the door to being able to compensate during a tragedy despite what they are legally responsible for; it doesn't make them more "morally" correct. If you want to try and say that the $350k they spent on the National Champion bonus' should have gone to the Planchers, last I checked, $10 million > $350k or even the $4.2 million. But I wouldn't expect a bull fan to know what those numbers mean so I apologize in advance. 

2 minutes ago, BrassBulls12 said:

yep and they spent more in court cost fighting for it than they paid. 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjcv4mytubeAhXCjVkKHQn4B0AQzPwBegQIARAD&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.orlandosentinel.com%2Fsports%2Fucf-knights%2Fos-sp-ucf-ereck-plancher-david-whitley-0608-story.html&psig=AOvVaw2LDFIxMFVhZrjV2LKGWd5X&ust=1542921972740762. 

Some highlights from the article 

From that day forward UCF has fought the Planchers. Legally, the school’s appeals have often been on solid ground.

But there is doing what’s legal and doing what’s right. In the wake of the Darling family finally getting relief, you wish Enock and Giselle Plancher could have the same feeling.

“All they’ve done is delayed, delayed, delayed,” Steve Yerrid said of UCF.

A jury found UCF liable in Plancher’s death and awarded the family $10 million. Like Darling, he collapsed during a vomit-inducing workout.

Judge Wendy Berger wrote that when UCF appealed the verdict to the Fifth District Court of Appeal. Unlike FSU and Darling, the sides did not reach a pre-trial settlement.

Both players had sickle-cell trait, which makes people vulnerable during extreme exertion. The jury determined that the UCF staff didn’t react properly when Plancher started staggering and gasping his last breaths.

“It is difficult to comprehend how one human being can ignore another in obvious distress or prevent someone else from offering aid to one in distress, but, inexplicably, that is what happened here.”

Yerrid said the school didn’t pay the $200,000 claim until a few months ago. It is obviously determined to never pay another dime.

 

For one grieving family, there is finally some closure.

For another, there is no peace in sight.

 

what does it say about your program when FSU has the mora high ground? 

It doesn't say anything because the death of a player doesn't magically come back from the dead based a certain dollar figure or when it gets paid. That's decided by the court system and the law, not UCF. Nice try though.

What happened to Ereck Plancher was a tragedy. George O'Leary had an old school way of toughening up players with brutal workouts. Ereck had sickle trait, which obviously wasn't conducive to said workouts because the body can't get enough oxygen to tissues due to malformed red blood cells. George O'Leary didn't single Ereck out and make him do anything different than all the other kids he coached. The fact that you are using this kids death to make a point is beyond low class and crosses the line between rival banter and just being a straight a hole.

Regarding those peanuts you refer to; a jury, NOT UCF found that UCFAA was under UCF's direct control and thus considered a state agency. The law states that $200,000 is the max payout. UCF didn't concoct that law or find some loophole. So nice try trying to distort whatever you can fit your narrative because you literally have nothing to contribute to what this thread was about. If you want to blame someone, blame the jury who used the facts that were presented to them and came to a joint decision.

26 minutes ago, DontPushMe said:

No one is saying we wouldn't rather have your success. I would happily have 4 straight 0-12 seasons to have your success. Congratulations your football program is better than ours. 

What we are saying is we aren't interested in this conference as fans because we used to play in a far more interesting and nationally relevant conference. It's very difficult to go from that to this. 

Imagine if for some reason ucf was in the sun belt starting next year. Even if you continued winning as you are now, you would be far less interested than you are currently. 

The problem is, usf got pretty much everything handed to them on a silver platter. Younger football program, got gifted into C-USA early on, then gifted into BE. Subsequently, your entire program from a fan base and administration standpoint is beyond entitled. You squandered the BE gift by beating some tough teams but fading back to obscurity every season. One poster even relishes in that fact - little do they know, that's EXACTLY why there is no foundation. You want an OCS but NFL quality that you can't afford, so you sit there with your hands in your pockets - accepting the status quo.

Make fun of the hardware all you want, but it's tangible and shows commitment to the sport. No one's going to remember who you beat out of conference 2 years from now, much less a decade ago when you're unranked at the end of the season and have nothing to show for it. UCF has had to fight for everything they've earned and that's why our players have a chip on their shoulders. You guys go 7-0, lose one game and the wheels fall off. That chip is why UCF is undefeated with a different coach.

You can make the comparison all you want about how if the tables were turned, UCF fans would feel the same way - the difference is - instead of sitting back wallowing in their own misery (0-12 in 2016) waiting for a golden ticket; they are hell bent on blowing down as many doors and scaring the **** out of the people holding the tickets until they drop one our way.

It's absolutely hilarious that so many of you think the AAC is a dumpster fire conference, yet can't seem to win anything; EVEN with the best team you've ever fielded in 2017. If you were constantly dominating the conference, then you may have a point, but you don't.

Then some of you contradict yourself by talking about how winning would equate to butts in the seat just as much as UCF has. Yet, after your most successful seasons of 2016 11-2 (Average attendance: 37,538) and 2017 10-2 seasons (Average attendance: 31,401) , you trended DOWN. The days of you having WVU and Pitt at Ray Jay are long gone, but feel free to live in the glory days to justify why an off campus stadium, 15 miles off campus is better than UCF's on campus aluminum stadium.

Some of you also talk about how our low's are much worse than yours. OK great, we went winless in 2005 and 2016. We've also won 5 Conference titles 2 BCS/NY6's and on track for a 6th with another appearance at a NY6. You can't honestly say you would rather rather have your 3-9 and 2-10 and have literally accomplished nothing, versus what UCF has done. You're right about it being cyclical though, since 2013, UCF has won the conference ~50% of the time.

Regarding "scientific proof" having an OCS stadium, since UCF doesn't disclose actual numbers per home game - AD Danny White publically stated that:

"In addition, UCF makes about $2 million per home game and that number is growing exponentially as UCF’s season-ticket base grows."

UCF Home Game Revenue

Versus

No plans to leave Raymond James Stadium

Kelly echoed the report's sentiment that Raymond James Stadium remains a quality option for USF for many more years, even though the school has to pay $400,000 to rent the facility each game and USF doesn't collect on most typical stadium-related revenues such as concessions, parking and sponsorship opportunities.

USF's typical crowds also fill just about half of the stadium, leaving a "lack of a traditional collegiate football atmosphere," according to the report. The 10-mile drive across Tampa presents an additional challenge to many students who might otherwise attend more games.

USF Ray Jay Fee

1 minute ago, Rex Havoc said:

I was there, and the majority of the crowd was not ucf fans. Maybe 15k total fans, and that’s pushing it. 

No idea when that picture was taken. However, based on the ESPN broadcast of the game and looking at the attendance, it's safe to say it's around 15-17k.

Whether it's UCF fans or USF fans, it's irrelevant. When FSU comes to Ray Jay, do you guys minus the FSU fans that overwhelmingly outnumber you? 

Bottom line, you're not going to convince a single person that usf some how manages more fans at their games than UCF does save the 2015 season in the last several years. A simple eye test will prove that time and time again since the numbers are skewed by both schools.

14 minutes ago, Rex Havoc said:

I was there also, and without USF fans showing up there would have been more staff/vendors than ucf fans. 

Sure about that? I was not at the game but this picture says otherwise. at the 36:00 minute mark HERE, you can see there is about 8-10k just on that one side. While I agree there is definitely not 26k in the stands, I highly doubt it was less than 17k.

So you're stating that usf averages more fans because of a one sample size game at the end of an winless season?

8 minutes ago, Apis Bull said:

I know what you're doing, but the Citrus Bowl was a dump and you had to build an OCS because they were renovating and you had no other place to play.

I've been to Ray Jay when we were winning and it was a great game day experience.

This **** is tiring.  Do you understand the difference between announced and actual attendance?

Yeah, I do. usf pads their announced stats by a minimum of 30% above actual attendance. Even with your "announced" attendance, you still get beat by UCF's actual attendance. If you honestly believe for a split second, usf is pulling in more fans into Ray Jay than ucf fans into the bounce house, then you are even more crazy than I thought.

5 minutes ago, Apis Bull said:

You don't think winning did that?  I went to their OCS a few years ago when they were losing.  It was empty, there was no pride or excitement.  Winning changed that, not the OCS

That's not what I asked.

On the flip-side, you guys were undefeated till recently and still managed to have predominantly empty stadiums. Winning is not the only factor in play. Even with the 0-12 season, we on average have by far more per game than usf over the last several years.

8 minutes ago, bullstampede9922 said:

And where does that get you?  At the best, a #9 ranking and another unmotivated team to play on New Years?    Face it, no one cares about the conference or that you are better than an average team, except your fans.  But hey, our trophy case is empty so what do I know.

Wow... with an an attitude like this, why not just drop down to FCS? An unmotivated team on New Years? Honestly, you could use that same excuse any time someone is favored to win, loses. You don't get to that level of competition where you are playing in a New Years 6 bowl and decide to embarrass yourself on national television. People like you are the same that just hope to be at the right place at the right time (ala Vanderbilt, Kansas, Wake Forest et al) or wish they would win the lottery without actually playing.

The argument about not building an OCS because of the lack of money, is about as short sighted as when Blockbuster turned down the chance to buy Netflix for $50 million.

If your administration wasn't so inept to see the overwhelming value building a college football atmosphere brings; they could easily start a campaign to get the City of Tampa involved, build hype around what the stadium would do for your program and reel in boosters. Where there is a will, there is a way. Instead, they don't see the immediate benefit just like Blockbuster didn't; and are letting the disparity between our schools widen each year.