Sitting_BULL

I'd love to hear what % of three star players fail appear in 40 college games or start 20 games or have one above-average season. I bet you its a lot higher than the % of Rivals top 100 players. I hate when people try to make the arguement that stars don't mean anything. The likelihood a 5-star winds up a better player 3-star is pretty high. That said, I know there are exceptions to the rule (Selvie etc.), but if you look at it realistically, this stars don't matter arguement is invalid.

Actually Selvie was a high school o-lineman @230lbs.  No o-line @ that size would be highly ranked.  The genius is that Leavitt was always good at taking those type players and figuring out another position where they could be good.  Nate Allen is another of many examples.

In 2 years we'll be in a better conference.

I'm assuming you are being sarcastic?

Considering the short amount of time, our previous 2 year record, etc, I'm impressed.

Remember, blue ink folks

+ 1

Lets take a formal letter of resignation in  Doug Woolard's name and see if anyone can get his autograph at the bottom?

Not that it matters unless we are willing to pay for the billboard.  I think they got where they are because they don't concern themselves with fairness, ethics or whatever.  That's not the same thing as caring about your public image.  But like I said, doesn't really mater.

The only way to hope for a change is to publicly humiliate them.

 

For example: a billboard asking them to quit taking money from USF football and use it as a tax write off.

 

They're reviled in Manchester, UK for their ownership of ManU. The locals there have tried very similar tactics but to no avail. I agree with Trip, you can't humiliate them when they're making all the money they are from both franchises...especially ManU...which I believe now has the highest valuation of any sports franchise in the world.

All the more reason they could be humiliated, humbled or whatever.  They have pride!  You don't think having to see and be asked about a sign saying "Hey Glazers, Why do you keep taking  millions from USF football?" wouldn't bother them?

The only way to hope for a change is to publicly humiliate them.

 

For example: a billboard asking them to quit taking money from USF football and use it as a tax write off.

You were my rep as well.  Always appreciated your help.  What are you doing now?

long time brahman/bull lot of suffering lot of embarassment joy to witness launch of football ******** pain to watch it mishandled and hurt ************

Those are the key words!

It had been green & red for Christmas. Just went to look and it's currently alternating green & gold bands. Guess they did change it for the game. Lets hope AC & Ruud are ok soon.

I do feel better! Actually, I won't feel better til we are in a good conference and playing competitively again.

I'm not impressed with the job Holtz did while he was here. But I also saw younger players on the field outperforming the old guys that were supposed to be the core of the team. When two true freshmen pass a senior on the depth chart, that senior did not do his job.

Frankly, I think Holtz biggest issue was playing too many upperclassmen that either weren't very good or didn't care enough. If it were me, I'd have had the young guys out there much earlier in the season. I'd rather have guys giving all out effort and making mistakes but making some plays than guys either not giving effort or stinking up the joint. If the younger players were able to make plays, that tells me it wasn't all coaching.

Holtz and staff did a poor job this year, but they were left inferior talent by the previous staff. I do not believe that Matt Grothe got incredible coaching while he was here. What he got was sandlot plays that he was able to make work because he was a unique guy.

You started off okay, but individual cases where a psyched up underclassmen was inserted and showed some great energy making some plays doesn't support your cause that strongly. If nothing else it even goes back to coaching where Holtz wasn't able to bring out the strengths of upperclassmen (motivation) who had shown great potential and been given accolades as underclassmen. From their recruitment through their underclassmen years no one was questioning the talent of most of these individuals. If you were referring to our CB situation, that was a known talent issue. Are we talking about lack of actual talent/potential, or just how it was used? If it is how it was used, that again goes back to coaching and the ability to motivate/inspire someone to use their talent/potential.

The rest of the response was pretty general and went back into beliefs. I'm having a tough time with this because it goes against common rationale that lead to the firing of Holtz. BTW, I also do not believe Grothe got incredible coaching while he was here.

Agree. Plus, like I said, these players were recruited to play in a wide open, spread offense, scramble, get into the open field and use their speed & athleticism to make people miss. Skippy always reigned them in, trying to make everyone (including BJ) play inside the tackles, short drop back passing, etc. on defense, they were used to being aggressive, where Skippy made them play soft. Skippy was the opposite of a great coach who adapts his system for his players, but rather tried to adapt his players to his system. He started out with Leavitt's team and went 8-5, lost some of Leavitt's players and went 5-7, lost some more of Leavitt's players and went 3-9.... nuff said!

How few? Pierre-Paul and Williams in the NFL with Super Bowl rings. Let's just talk about multi-year starters: Griffin, Webster, Barrington, Lattimore. Lamar was Big East Special Teams Player of the Year. Marc had 54 catches in his career. Jenkins and Sager are returning starters. Bass started for a year. Giddins still has a year left, same for Forte, Hopkins. Sure, there are a dozen guys out of 29 that didn't amount to much if they made it to campus at all. Not a bad class at all, or disappointing.

Also you can't judge the guys left behind. Leavitt recruited them with a purpose in mind, but Skippy tried to change everybody into HIS system and it cost him his job. Skippy even made the band look bad.

So how do they come to grips? Dropping to 1-aa? Take out a full page ad in the usa today acknowledging relegation? Stand up at the next meeting of the playoff committee and say "more porridge sir?"

i think the decision will be made for usf

if usf doesnt get picked up in one of the big 5 conferences usf will not be able to sustain a program

the money will dry up

Did you really go to law school? I have a hard time believing you even passed High School with some of the bonehead comments you make. USF will continue to sustain all sports programs. Our University pulls in a pretty decent amount of cash when compared to other Universities currently at our level. We will be in the Big Whatever until either there is a merger & renaming forming the "Best of the Rest" where we will reside until we can prove we deserve better OR Power 5 teams are poached from one another and they need a spot filled. Either way, it's not the end of the world.

usf is currently in the minor leagues with little hope in sight

this is a sports board

this is suppose to be fun

Tell us what you think USF should do. You clearly realize/appreciate things that we don't (or at least you believe this to be the case).

All you seem to do is remind us of how ****ty our conference position is - needlessly antagonizing us, over and over again.

You're right - this is a sports board and it should be fun. But you sure do make it hard to enjoy it.

There's nothing we can do if we don't get into a big conf. When we start hosting conf games against Tulane, Temple, ECU, Memphis, etc, there will be 25k in RayJay. Most of you seem to want to remain in denial about this? It's fine to be a die hard fan, but be realistic as well, otherwise we just come across as silly. Anyone who thinks it's going to be business as usual is fooling themselves. Just like thinking Taggart is a long term hire vs Patrino who would leave in 2-3 years. The only reason Taggart will stay longer is if it takes him longer to make us good. As soon as we are 9-3 or 10-2 Taggart will get offers and leave just like Patrino!

I don't think anyone believes we'll be selling out games against those teams. But I consider myself a die hard fan and realistic as well. Supporting your team whether they win or lose has nothing do do with being realistic or silly.

I never said anything about supporting the team, just the comments like "well we didn't sell out at the end of 07, etc," as if this will be no different. It WILL be quite different!

As soon as we are 9-3 or 10-2 Taggart will get offers and leave just like Patrino!

I will be ok with this, as USF will be more attractive to better coaches than they were when Holtz or Taggart got hired. We should never be afraid of our coach leaving after a successful season.

I agree which is why we should've just hired Patrino. He would've likely had us in the Orange Bowl next year.

So how do they come to grips? Dropping to 1-aa? Take out a full page ad in the usa today acknowledging relegation? Stand up at the next meeting of the playoff committee and say "more porridge sir?"

i think the decision will be made for usf

if usf doesnt get picked up in one of the big 5 conferences usf will not be able to sustain a program

the money will dry up

Did you really go to law school? I have a hard time believing you even passed High School with some of the bonehead comments you make. USF will continue to sustain all sports programs. Our University pulls in a pretty decent amount of cash when compared to other Universities currently at our level. We will be in the Big Whatever until either there is a merger & renaming forming the "Best of the Rest" where we will reside until we can prove we deserve better OR Power 5 teams are poached from one another and they need a spot filled. Either way, it's not the end of the world.

usf is currently in the minor leagues with little hope in sight

this is a sports board

this is suppose to be fun

Tell us what you think USF should do. You clearly realize/appreciate things that we don't (or at least you believe this to be the case).

All you seem to do is remind us of how ****ty our conference position is - needlessly antagonizing us, over and over again.

You're right - this is a sports board and it should be fun. But you sure do make it hard to enjoy it.

There's nothing we can do if we don't get into a big conf. When we start hosting conf games against Tulane, Temple, ECU, Memphis, etc, there will be 25k in RayJay. Most of you seem to want to remain in denial about this? It's fine to be a die hard fan, but be realistic as well, otherwise we just come across as silly. Anyone who thinks it's going to be business as usual is fooling themselves. Just like thinking Taggart is a long term hire vs Patrino who would leave in 2-3 years. The only reason Taggart will stay longer is if it takes him longer to make us good. As soon as we are 9-3 or 10-2 Taggart will get offers and leave just like Patrino!

We will hold these truths to be self evident that not all college football has an equal chance...............

leavitt-couldntlock down area talent.he had chance to be one ofthe best.egomanic;terrible special teams;good defense;offense was boring-couldntrecruit-lack of disciplin

holtz-couldnt recruit;defsne was terrrilbe-lack of discipline

taggert-unknown--he needs to recruit better than first two or he is doomed to fail

I'm always so amazed at how many complain that Leavitt didn't recruit well, etc? When you're a 7-9 year old program fresh out of trailers, how do you think a coach goes into a kids house who just got wooed by Ohio St, Alabama, etc, and talk him into changing his life's dreams and coming to little new kid on the block USF? The fact that he got who he did with what he had to work with was nothing short of amazing.

When you get up to #2 in the nation and some big wins, your recruiting should improve over prior years. It not only didn't improve, it appears it backslid. That is worthy of criticism.

Actually, on paper, it did improve in 2009 ... and then came the upheaval.

Yep we were #25 in the nation. Nowhere close since.

http://recruiting.sc...=9&c=14&yr=2009

Nice find!

leavitt-couldntlock down area talent.he had chance to be one ofthe best.egomanic;terrible special teams;good defense;offense was boring-couldntrecruit-lack of disciplin

holtz-couldnt recruit;defsne was terrrilbe-lack of discipline

taggert-unknown--he needs to recruit better than first two or he is doomed to fail

I'm always so amazed at how many complain that Leavitt didn't recruit well, etc? When you're a 7-9 year old program fresh out of trailers, how do you think a coach goes into a kids house who just got wooed by Ohio St, Alabama, etc, and talk him into changing his life's dreams and coming to little new kid on the block USF? The fact that he got who he did with what he had to work with was nothing short of amazing.

When you get up to #2 in the nation and some big wins, your recruiting should improve over prior years. It not only didn't improve, it appears it backslid. That is worthy of criticism.

Actually, on paper, it did improve in 2009 ... and then came the upheaval.

On paper, turned into a disaster on the field.

Thanks to Holtz not Leavitt!

leavitt-couldntlock down area talent.he had chance to be one ofthe best.egomanic;terrible special teams;good defense;offense was boring-couldntrecruit-lack of disciplin

holtz-couldnt recruit;defsne was terrrilbe-lack of discipline

taggert-unknown--he needs to recruit better than first two or he is doomed to fail

I'm always so amazed at how many complain that Leavitt didn't recruit well, etc? When you're a 7-9 year old program fresh out of trailers, how do you think a coach goes into a kids house who just got wooed by Ohio St, Alabama, etc, and talk him into changing his life's dreams and coming to little new kid on the block USF? The fact that he got who he did with what he had to work with was nothing short of amazing.

When you get up to #2 in the nation and some big wins, your recruiting should improve over prior years. It not only didn't improve, it appears it backslid. That is worthy of criticism.

Actually, on paper, it did improve in 2009 ... and then came the upheaval.

Triple B, I'm impressed! You give me new hope.

You guys don't seem to understand, we live in a community that started to become accustomed to us beating #5 WVa, #9 Louisville, #17 Auburn, #23 Fl State. How many of them do you think will flock to rayjay to watch us play Tulane & Temple?

And by the end of 2007 the stands were mostly empty. Unless this teams wins 10 games a year the fans aren't coming. I don't think it matters who we beat. If we are 9 - 1 going into the last games of the year the stands will be much fuller.

By the end of 2007, the game was insignificant. Now, all of them are! Winning a conf with SMU, Tulane, Temple, E Car & whoever will be like winning the MAAC. Nobody will give a ****!

this is a different issue

usf is now in the minor leagues

I think that's what I said?

leavitt-couldntlock down area talent.he had chance to be one ofthe best.egomanic;terrible special teams;good defense;offense was boring-couldntrecruit-lack of disciplin

holtz-couldnt recruit;defsne was terrrilbe-lack of discipline

taggert-unknown--he needs to recruit better than first two or he is doomed to fail

I'm always so amazed at how many complain that Leavitt didn't recruit well, etc? When you're a 7-9 year old program fresh out of trailers, how do you think a coach goes into a kids house who just got wooed by Ohio St, Alabama, etc, and talk him into changing his life's dreams and coming to little new kid on the block USF? The fact that he got who he did with what he had to work with was nothing short of amazing.

usf and big took a big fall in class and stature

In actuality, those falls really aren't that big .... only in some of our fans' minds. The big fall is financially.

The fall is quite big, we fell from the major leagues to the minors.

well... we fell from the bottom of the big leagues to the top of the minor leagues in terms of conference prestige. it's not like we went from the SEC to the Big Sky conference or some ****.

$$$ is the biggest issue.

Doesn't matter. We were in the BCS. When you're in the BCS you have a shot at a BCS bowl. You're either inside looking out or outside looking in. We are now back outside! Eventually it will hit most of you as to how important that is. For now, enjoy your bliss!

Leavitt - JOB 1 - Win the Conference - FAIL.

Holtz - JOB 1 - Win the Conference - FAIL.

Taggart-JOB 1 -Win the Conference - ???

Leavitt - JOB 1 - Win the Conference - FAIL.

Holtz - JOB 1 - Win the Conference - FAIL.

Taggart-JOB 1 -Win the Conference - ??? **** Of course now it's also a completely different conference. 3 years ago, Tulane, Temple, E carolina, etc, would have been considered tune up games. Now, they are conference foes, meaning they can beat us! Quite a few steps backwards has this once skyrocketing program taken.

There's never been a point in our history where 1A games like that would have, realistically, been considered tune up games ...

I respectfully disagree. A few years ago, we would've been pretty heavily favored against any of those teams. This year AND MAYBE next and beyond, not so much.

But I'm glad you guys are happy about the direction of the program. At least someone will be in the seats at RayJay.

+1

We recently lost our first game against a non-BCS opponent since joining the Big East.

+2

Going into those games we all had the expectation of a win, and I think that's what he meant. The expectation of winning is part of a winning culture, and I'm disappointed with the "we have to take our lot in life" mentality that some of the core posters/mods on this board have sunk to. That is NOT the mentality that Leavitt EVER had, and it's NOT the mentality that ANY successful individual or institution has ever had.

GO BULLS!!

+3 those games were most definitely tune ups. Even the bowl games where we played ECU Memphis and NIU I thought were relatively gimme bowl games.

It is so sad as a fan base that some believe games vs ECU, Tulane, and Temple are no longer gimme games.

It's equally as sad that they think these games will draw a crowd if we are 9-1! 9-1 against a bunch of nobody's wont draw a crowd unless we play at our soccer field!