This is tiring

[Triple B]

I don't think USF could have handled the situation any better in all honesty.    Hirings for new coaches get leaked out nearly 100% of the time in every sport.   It's just how it works.  The news outlets know that lots of people read the articles about schools hiring new coaches.  The schools don't mind it getting leaked because 99.8% of the time the backround check goes through no problem.   USF just happened to fall into that .2% this time.     In the whole scheme of things it's not that big of a deal.  There are plenty of other good coaches out there who would like a million dollar paycheck and brand new facilities.     Manhattan though should be flaming pissed.   They have a bachelors degree requirement as well, and now their school looks like a joke.   It's just crazy to me that a D1 school didn't even bother to check to make sure he had his degree.

 

That really is correct. Nothing to really back it up but I'm guessing the vast majority of these hirings get leaked, with the details, before everything is buttoned up and, like you said, almost 100% go through without a problem .... and most media outlets realize that it's not really a done deal until the official announcement but go with the "rumor" anyway. What's funny with this is the naivete of some media outlets to think USF had some sort of obligation to come out and say it wasn't a done deal yet, even though USF themselves had publicized nothing .... and then those outlets whine like little girls (sorry, Brad, no other way to characterize it) about USF . You want to whine to somebody, whine to your mole who obviously didn't keep you abreast of things.

[JTrue]

I don't follow all the national talking heads but those who do have said we haven't come off as bad in all this so I'm not sure where you think we're coming out way worse off in this debacle. The only place we're worse off is that we don't have a promising young coach coming to us and there's absolutely nothing USF could have done about that to avoid it.

I don't mean that anyone blames us. I just don't think it's a positive to be embroiled with this story, even though I agree that virtually everyone - both inside and outside of the fanbase - totally understands that we did what had to be done. But this is time and energy that could have been better used elsewhere (like finding a competent, honest coach). I am not sure if I can agree with spinning this as a positive ("good job USF" - totally serious, from another thread) or saying that there is nothing we could have done about it to avoid the spectacle, because i think some basic steps on the front end might have avoided some of this.

Some people (not you) have basically said that even with the benefit of hindsight, they wouldn't have done anything different. It might not be fair to rant about how incompetent our administration is with the benefit of hindsight, but I also think it's kind of foolish to basically take the position that we shouldn't be taking any steps to avoid this type of thing. (Put simply, with the next hire, will we do some VERY basic vetting before you make your selection? I hope so.)

If I understand things correctly, the way we went about this was the SOP for these type hires. The info from UK couldn't be obtained until permission from SM was given. That permission is usually not given until everything else is worked out and is usually a mere formality. For the next applicant, maybe they'll rearrange things in light of being burnt but I don't think there was any indication that SOP didn't need to be followed .... What does need to be done is for Harlan to find out, in any way possible, where the leaks are coming from and send somebody packing.

My understanding is that you can verify basic information (including dates of attendance and graduation) without violating privacy laws.

Not vetting a candidate like this might be SOP at USF, but maybe it shouldn't be?

My understanding is that all can be obtained is if someone went there, nothing more .... I know this has been hashed over somewhere in this mess today so maybe someone with actual verifiable knowledge can weigh in.

http://www.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/fpco/ferpa/index.html

Edited March 26, 2014 by JTrue

[WWMJD]

I don't follow all the national talking heads but those who do have said we haven't come off as bad in all this so I'm not sure where you think we're coming out way worse off in this debacle. The only place we're worse off is that we don't have a promising young coach coming to us and there's absolutely nothing USF could have done about that to avoid it.

I don't mean that anyone blames us. I just don't think it's a positive to be embroiled with this story, even though I agree that virtually everyone - both inside and outside of the fanbase - totally understands that we did what had to be done. But this is time and energy that could have been better used elsewhere (like finding a competent, honest coach). I am not sure if I can agree with spinning this as a positive ("good job USF" - totally serious, from another thread) or saying that there is nothing we could have done about it to avoid the spectacle, because i think some basic steps on the front end might have avoided some of this.

Some people (not you) have basically said that even with the benefit of hindsight, they wouldn't have done anything different. It might not be fair to rant about how incompetent our administration is with the benefit of hindsight, but I also think it's kind of foolish to basically take the position that we shouldn't be taking any steps to avoid this type of thing. (Put simply, with the next hire, will we do some VERY basic vetting before you make your selection? I hope so.)

If I understand things correctly, the way we went about this was the SOP for these type hires. The info from UK couldn't be obtained until permission from SM was given. That permission is usually not given until everything else is worked out and is usually a mere formality. For the next applicant, maybe they'll rearrange things in light of being burnt but I don't think there was any indication that SOP didn't need to be followed .... What does need to be done is for Harlan to find out, in any way possible, where the leaks are coming from and send somebody packing.

My understanding is that you can verify basic information (including dates of attendance and graduation) without violating privacy laws.

Not vetting a candidate like this might be SOP at USF, but maybe it shouldn't be?

My understanding is that all can be obtained is if someone went there, nothing more .... I know this has been hashed over somewhere in this mess today so maybe someone with actual verifiable knowledge can weigh in.

I'm on a phone, so no link without annoying myself. Just type FERPA into Google.

There is an exception to FERPA for certain basic pieces of information, called "directory information" which explicitly includes "degrees and awards received". There has been SO MUCH disinformation today about this, but they CAN verify a degree legally. The statute is 20 U.S. Code § 1232g if you'd like to read.

[JTrue]

Nope. Dates of attendance, but not degree. I edited in the link.

[charsibb]

Nope. Dates of attendance, but not degree. I edited in the link.

 

Here's the relevant text. The reason for this exception is for things like Honor Societies, student clubs, etc while they are still a student. It was expressly not intended to be used by prospective employers

 

Schools may disclose, without consent, "directory" information such as a student's name, address, telephone number, date and place of birth, honors and awards, and dates of attendance. However, schools must tell parents and eligible students about directory information and allow parents and eligible students a reasonable amount of time to request that the school not disclose directory information about them. Schools must notify parents and eligible students annually of their rights under FERPA. The actual means of notification (special letter, inclusion in a PTA bulletin, student handbook, or newspaper article) is left to the discretion of each school.

[WWMJD]

Nope. Dates of attendance, but not degree. I edited in the link.

You are wrong. It is in the statute. I quoted it directly.

[charsibb]

P.S. As an educator, I do not any disclose information to anyone other than the student or a school administrator. Any requests for other info are referred to the regsitrar. I don't even send students THEIR OWN grades by email due to the unsecured nature of the communication.

[WWMJD]

Nope. Dates of attendance, but not degree. I edited in the link.

Here's the relevant text. The reason for this exception is for things like Honor Societies, student clubs, etc while they are still a student. It was expressly not intended to be used by prospective employers

Schools may disclose, without consent, "directory" information such as a student's name, address, telephone number, date and place of birth, honors and awards, and dates of attendance. However, schools must tell parents and eligible students about directory information and allow parents and eligible students a reasonable amount of time to request that the school not disclose directory information about them. Schools must notify parents and eligible students annually of their rights under FERPA. The actual means of notification (special letter, inclusion in a PTA bulletin, student handbook, or newspaper article) is left to the discretion of each school.

As I noted above, you are quoting a summary from a website. Look at the actual statute - it CLEARLY states exactly what I quoted.

[charsibb]

 

Nope. Dates of attendance, but not degree. I edited in the link.

You are wrong. It is in the statute. I quoted it directly.

 

 

Then copy and paste it here

[WWMJD]

Nope. Dates of attendance, but not degree. I edited in the link.

You are wrong. It is in the statute. I quoted it directly.

Then copy and paste it here

"(A) For the purposes of this section the term “directory information†relating to a student includes the following: the student’s name, address, telephone listing, date and place of birth, major field of study, participation in officially recognized activities and sports, weight and height of members of athletic teams, dates of attendance, degrees and awards received, and the most recent previous educational agency or institution attended by the student."