The success of women's BB recruiting.

[beastiebull]

We have just landed the number one female basketball prospect in the state, landed another top ranked prospect from GA, and are competing with UCONN and TENN, two of the most respected women's basketball  programs in the nation for Sarosi's sister.  

This is curious because the RMC-ites on this board insist that we aren't supposed to be able to attract top hoops talent.  They insist we are "only" USF, we have no basketball "tradition", and Florida is "not a basketball state".  

The recruiting success of the women's program lays to rest all of these theories as to why our men's recruiting has been paltry, and further illustrates RMC's glaring shortcomings in this department.

[Guest S.  Bien]

We have just landed the number one female basketball prospect in the state, landed another top ranked prospect from GA, and are competing with UCONN and TENN, two of the most respected women's basketball  programs in the nation for Sarosi's sister.  

This is curious because the RMC-ites on this board insist that we aren't supposed to be able to attract top hoops talent.  They insist we are "only" USF, we have no basketball "tradition", and Florida is "not a basketball state".  

The recruiting success of the women's program lays to rest all of these theories as to why our men's recruiting has been paltry, and further illustrates RMC's glaring shortcomings in this department.

If you want to credit Coach Fernandez for his recruiting prowess, and skills as a coach then i beg you to go back to his first two years and tell me you had the foresight that this would happen.  Coach Fernandez had the exact same things plaguing Robert McCullum occurring in his women's program- massive defections, transfers that came and went (remember the 6-6 center from UF), no fan support (well there never was really any for USF), two years of dismal records.

In fact, in his first two years we had a bunch of people calling for Fernandez's head on this board.  The problem was so few cared about women's hoops.

If your going to give Fernandez all this credit then you must admit at the time all he needed was patience from the fans.  If your going to call him a great recruiter then you've got to go back to his first two years when his attrition rate was bad....all very similar to CRM's first two years.

Beastie you can't have your cake and eat it to.  Just because four years ago when USF Women's hoops was horrid under Fernandez, and you chose to ignore it because you didn't care, doesn't mean you can look at his turnaround and ask the same of Coach McCullum.  USF gave Fernandez five years to turn it around, and turn it around he did.  To properly compare you've got to give CRM at least one more full year before drawing even attempting to comparing to Fernandez's situation.

At this juncture, if you actually did some research, the only conclusion you could draw from, is that Coach McCullum's first two years were eerily similar in results, issues, and recruiting as Coach Fernandez's first two years under the women's hoop program.  Let's hope that CRM can turn it around over the ensuing three as Fernandez was capable of doing.

[beastiebull]

Coach Fernandez has capitalized on our entrance into the BE, a luxury he did not have his first few years with his program.  Since the announcement, recruiting has improved greatly.  Our recruiting before RMC arrived was better than it is now and he's had the BE announcement to bolster recruiting since he's been here.  He has not capitalized.

[Guest S.  Bien]

Coach Fernandez has capitalized on our entrance into the BE, a luxury he did not have his first few years with his program.  Since the announcement, recruiting has improved greatly.  Our recruiting before RMC arrived was better than it is now and he's had the BE announcement to bolster recruiting since he's been here.  He has not capitalized.

Bull Crap...you're spinning to suit your argument.  

Coach Fernandez's first recruiting class was ranked #36 in the nation.  However most of those players are long gone, he took some transfers, also departed.... All while he was C-USA, and not even a dream of the Big East.

He's done an impressive job, but don't demean Coach Fernandez by acting like the Big East is the reason they're recruiting better.  Coach Fernandez was always a good recruiter but he's refined his approach, he's now laying off the transfers (which he was grabbing by the droves early on), and going after solid HS, and JC talent.  He didn't have that luxury early on, like Coach Mac.

From 4-24 to 19-8 and still counting.  Just admit that Coach Fernandez has turned around a dead program, he did it with hard work, and good recruiting.  If you're going to give him five years before applauding him then the same should hold true for Mac.

By the way, you've got a really distorted view of our past, and USF's successes.  Seth had some limited success recruiting, and with teams, but 'limited' should always be injected when referring to his successes at USF.  Seth looks to have made a move for the betterment of his career, oddly he had more success at LBSU, and it appears at Vtech then at USF- neither of which are hoops mecca's.  That should tell you a little something about how hard it is to accomplish even a 'limited' amount of success in hoops here.

[Markeymark]

The difference is that Fernandez was able to establish some success through good recruiting in CUSA, which led to a WNIT bid, and it has snowballed to where you see him getting some top players.

McCullum has yet to show he can break .500 in CUSA. He has a tough row to hoe, since he was brought in to clean house and then later found that he was to shepherd the team into the Big East.

It's a little different situation from Fernandez, who made everyone forget about Winters by winning, while at the same time enjoying a level of obscurity that allowed him to build the team without enduring a lot of negative press. Fernandez is in a better position to benefit from the conference upgrade.

[Guest S.  Bien]

The difference is that Fernandez was able to establish some success through good recruiting in CUSA, which led to a WNIT bid, and it has snowballed to where you see him getting some top players.

McCullum has yet to show he can break .500 in CUSA. He has a tough row to hoe, since he was brought in to clean house and then later found that he was to shepherd the team into the Big East.

It's a little different situation from Fernandez, who made everyone forget about Winters by winning, while at the same time enjoying a level of obscurity that allowed him to build the team without enduring a lot of negative press. Fernandez is in a better position to benefit from the conference upgrade.

Neither did Coach Fernandez.  It's bad enough the analogies of Seth, but jeez, if you folks are not even going to research, and use revisionist history then it's not even fair to debate.

Do a little research and you'll find out that Fernandez didn't win anymore C-USA games in his first two years then Mac.  In fact, their records are eerily similar.

Fernandez went 4-24 his first year 1-15 CUSA, he went 14-13 his second year, but that WAS 4-10 in CUSA!!!!!  Oddly, after the 14-13 season he went 7-20 the next year, and 2-12 in CUSA play, until his enormous breakthrough last year going 14-15 7-7 CUSA and getting a post season bid.   It was a five year plan, you had to follow it if you wanted to believe.  We had numerous defections from the first two teams, part of it was a fall-out from Winter's squad, the other part was Fernandez grabbing numerous transfers, and JC's to try and improve credibility quickly.  Once he stablized it was the HS talent that he started recruiting in his third year that's made him a star- Jessica Dickson, et al.

If Coach Mac can mimic the same situation then we'd all be pleased, but make no mistake in the early going everyone felt that Coach Fernandez wasn't equiped for the job.  We were gladly mistaken then, and hopefully we'll be the same in two more years.

[Markeymark]

The expectations are different for Men's hoops. It's a whole different sport on the women's side, one that doesn't have the same media and fan demands as the men.

McCullum is supposed to be a seasoned basketball coach at the D1 level, while Fernandez was an assistant who lucked out being in the right place at the right time. He's also getting paid peanuts, unlike the men's coach who is probably getting 4x as much.

[Guest S.  Bien]

The expectations are different for Men's hoops. It's a whole different sport on the women's side, one that doesn't have the same media and fan demands as the men.

McCullum is supposed to be a seasoned basketball coach at the D1 level, while Fernandez was an assistant who lucked out being in the right place at the right time. He's also getting paid peanuts, unlike the men's coach who is probably getting 4x as much.

Mark,

I certainly agree with your assertion about expectations for men's hoops versus women's.  Rightly, or wrongly Coach Mac is measured by a different set of standards then Coach Fernandez.

However, their first two years' were creepily similar in so many ways.  I just hope Coach Mac's next three years follow Fernandez's, well I could skip that third year cave when we went 7-20.  

[TripleB]

We have just landed the number one female basketball prospect in the state, landed another top ranked prospect from GA, and are competing with UCONN and TENN, two of the most respected women's basketball  programs in the nation for Sarosi's sister.  

This is curious because the RMC-ites on this board insist that we aren't supposed to be able to attract top hoops talent.  They insist we are "only" USF, we have no basketball "tradition", and Florida is "not a basketball state".  

The recruiting success of the women's program lays to rest all of these theories as to why our men's recruiting has been paltry, and further illustrates RMC's glaring shortcomings in this department.

I keep forgetting, how many points a game do they give us for landing a "ranked" recruit?

I think what most of us RMC-ites care about are results on the court and are wise enough to give him four years to see how it plays out. So far he;s improved every year he's been here ...

And do you really think Sarosi's sister gives us a shot if she wasn't Sarosi's sister?

[Markeymark]

I understand where you're coming from with the slow building process. To do things the way McCullum is working will take time, no question about it.

My original post was not clear, what I should have said was Fernandez is in a better position to benefit from the conference upgrade because he has had ample time to establish his team.