Big East Expansion Thread

[DELdaBull]

I assume you mean Iowa State.  If we go to 12, I'd like Kansas, Missouri, and Houston/Baylor.  16, I'd like Kansas, Missouri, Houston/Baylor, the three ACC defectors (Miami, BC, VaTech), and Maryland.

Don't forget Kansas State

Not high on K-State and would only take them if they and Kansas were a package deal.

My understanding is they are.  They also have a pretty good athletics program.  Puts ours to shame.

[Mama_Bull]

 

NEWS PAGE SIX SPORTS ENTERTAINMENT

Big East could add Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri

By LENN ROBBINS

Last Updated: 8:33 AM, September 5, 2011

AP

With the Pac-12 on the verge of expanding to 16 teams and the SEC poised to add Texas A&M, officials on the presidential, athletic director and conference levels in the Big East, ACC and Big 12 have been burning up the phone lines over the last 72 hours.

The results of those talks could forever change the makeup of the Big East, The Post has learned.

According to multiple sources, the most likely scenario -- should Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas and Texas Tech leave the Big 12 for the Pac-12 -- would bring Kansas, Kansas State and Missouri to the Big East.

That would create a super conference with 20 schools playing all sports, including 12 FBS football members.

"Obviously we're monitoring the landscape," Big East commissioner John Marinatto told The Post. "We're very aware of the situation and will continue to do what's in the best interests of the Big East Conference."

Marinatto, who sources said sent an email to all of his conference presidents and athletic directors, would offer no specifics and declined to comment on any school. But the league, which faces crucial TV negotiations in November 2012, is looking to best position itself for those talks.

The 12-and-20 alignment would finally give the members that play football a sense of security. The basketball schools would somewhat begrudgingly accept 20 members, knowing it would ensure the league's survival by expanding the league's footprint into the Midwest.

But there are other scenarios that can't be ruled out.

Although Big Ten commissioner Jim Delany recently said in published reports the possible expansion of the Pac-12 does not change his league's approach or timetable for any expansion, several sources said the Big Ten is interested in Maryland of the ACC.

It's a long shot that Maryland, an ACC charter member, would leave that league, but money speaks louder than league affiliation these days.

If the ACC lost Maryland to the Big Ten and the SEC took an ACC program as its 14th member, a possible Big East-ACC "merger" would create an East Coast super conference.

When the Big 12 nearly lost five members to the Pac-12 last year, the Big East had an agreement in principle with Missouri, Kansas, Kansas State and Iowa State. The Big East has since added TCU, making Iowa State expendable.

Missouri has dearly wanted an invite to the Big Ten, but one doesn't seem forthcoming.

The SEC might be interested in Missouri, which borders Arkansas, but sources told The Post Missouri sees a better cultural fit with the Big East than the SEC.

In order for the Big East to add a member, a three-quarters vote is needed.

TCU, which joins the league next season, does not have a vote.

That means 12 of 16 schools would have to approve the additions of Missouri, Kansas and Kansas State.

lenn.robbins@nypost.com

http://m.nypost.com/Page/Uuid/ba758498-d785-11e0-8f76-e8432eb6d237

[gibbsak]

  

NEWS PAGE SIX SPORTS ENTERTAINMENT

Big East could add Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri

By LENN ROBBINS

Last Updated: 8:33 AM, September 5, 2011

AP

With the Pac-12 on the verge of expanding to 16 teams and the SEC poised to add Texas A&M, officials on the presidential, athletic director and conference levels in the Big East, ACC and Big 12 have been burning up the phone lines over the last 72 hours.

The results of those talks could forever change the makeup of the Big East, The Post has learned.

According to multiple sources, the most likely scenario -- should Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas and Texas Tech leave the Big 12 for the Pac-12 -- would bring Kansas, Kansas State and Missouri to the Big East.

That would create a super conference with 20 schools playing all sports, including 12 FBS football members.

"Obviously we're monitoring the landscape," Big East commissioner John Marinatto told The Post. "We're very aware of the situation and will continue to do what's in the best interests of the Big East Conference."

Marinatto, who sources said sent an email to all of his conference presidents and athletic directors, would offer no specifics and declined to comment on any school. But the league, which faces crucial TV negotiations in November 2012, is looking to best position itself for those talks.

The 12-and-20 alignment would finally give the members that play football a sense of security. The basketball schools would somewhat begrudgingly accept 20 members, knowing it would ensure the league's survival by expanding the league's footprint into the Midwest.

But there are other scenarios that can't be ruled out.

Although Big Ten commissioner Jim Delany recently said in published reports the possible expansion of the Pac-12 does not change his league's approach or timetable for any expansion, several sources said the Big Ten is interested in Maryland of the ACC.

It's a long shot that Maryland, an ACC charter member, would leave that league, but money speaks louder than league affiliation these days.

If the ACC lost Maryland to the Big Ten and the SEC took an ACC program as its 14th member, a possible Big East-ACC "merger" would create an East Coast super conference.

When the Big 12 nearly lost five members to the Pac-12 last year, the Big East had an agreement in principle with Missouri, Kansas, Kansas State and Iowa State. The Big East has since added TCU, making Iowa State expendable.

Missouri has dearly wanted an invite to the Big Ten, but one doesn't seem forthcoming.

The SEC might be interested in Missouri, which borders Arkansas, but sources told The Post Missouri sees a better cultural fit with the Big East than the SEC.

In order for the Big East to add a member, a three-quarters vote is needed.

TCU, which joins the league next season, does not have a vote.

That means 12 of 16 schools would have to approve the additions of Missouri, Kansas and Kansas State.

lenn.robbins@nypost.com

http://m.nypost.com/Page/Uuid/ba758498-d785-11e0-8f76-e8432eb6d237

This answers some of my questions about what happens to the BBall schools in the event of expansion to 12 or 16 in football.

Would 20 in BBall work out?

[Raetus]

This answers some of my questions about what happens to the BBall schools in the event of expansion to 12 or 16 in football.

Would 20 in BBall work out?

If you think about it, BB plays something like 30+ games and has far less personelle/equipment to move from spot to spot. It might not be their ideal situation, but it is no where near impossible. The tournament would, again, need some restructuring, but that's a yearly occurrence anyways.

[Raetus]

Also, let's add UK, Duke and UNC and just forget about the NCAA Tournament. All the other teams can have their little tournament at that point and play the winner of the Big East Tournament for the Championship on a yearly basis.

[Buller64]

20 in BB would work out just fine. You have two options. Play 19 conference games per year (1 game for each school) or you could play 17 conference games per year by splitting the BE into 4 different 5 team divisions.  I favor the 4 divisions approach because then the Conference tourney is easier to play out on TV (although the other method works this one is better for locations and TV)

Football Divisions

Division A

Uconn

Syracuse

WVU

Rutgers

Pitt

one more

Division B

TCU

Kansas

KSU

Missouri

2 others

The teams to be allocated are USF, Louisville and Cinci. I would think that USF would be in Division A and the other 2 in Division B

Basketball Divisions

Division A

Pittsburgh

West Virginia

Uconn

St. Johns

Providence

Division B

Seton Hall

Villanova

Georgetown

Rutgers

Syracuse

Division C

Notre Dame

Louisville

Cincinatti

Depaul

Marquette

Division D

TCU

Kansas

Kansas State

Mizzouri

USF (USF travel expenses are almost identical in any of these divisions)

Scheduling BB

Home and Home within your division (8 games)

Home and home alternate years with one othe division (5 games total of 13)

2 games home and home alternate years against each of the other 2 divisions (4 games total of 17)

Sample Schedule for USF

Missouri (h and h)

Kansas (h and h)

KSU (h and h)

TCU (h and h)

Notre Dame (a in year 1 h in year 2)

Louisville (h in year 1 a in year 2)

Cincinnatti (a in year 1 h in year 2)

Marquette (h in year 1 a in year 2)

Depaul (a in year 1 h in year 2)

Seton Hall (h in year 1 a in year 2

Georgetown (a in year 1 h in year 2)

Providence (h in year 1 a in year 2

WVU (a in year 1 h in year 2)

For season 3 change the divsion match to division B select 2 different teams from divison A. In 4 seasons then USF will have played all but 1 team in the conference both h and away. And the team not played in the first 4 seasons gets picked up in seasons 5 and 6.

For the conference tourney the bottom 8 teams play a game with the winners joining the top 12 to form a 16 team tourney. Then you have normal tourney outcomes.  What makes this fascinating for TV is that the play-in games can be on Monday (in KC and NY) with the winners playing the first round on Tuesday (in KC and NY) second round will be on Wednesday (in KC and NY). Then the BE takes a 2 day break (this way the BE does not interfere with other conference tourneys). The third round could be on Saturday (in KC or NY, the other being next year) and the championship game on Sunday. Teams have a chance to get rested during the tourney (no playing 4 or 5 days in a row). Thus the BE teams will be better rested going into the NCAAs than other major conferences and get more TV exposure and fills in blank programming time for the sports networks (lots of pubs).

The 12/20 makes sense for football and BB.

[BULLSHTR]

I think if that happens.. you will see the BEast poach ACC, not the other way around

Say you have the SEC take V. Tech, FL State, and Clemson (3 teams as you mentioned.)

Miami is about to be hit hard with sanctions

.. How is the ACC a better option team for team than the BEast?

Are you telling me Duke, Wake Forest, Maryland, BC, Miami (under heavy multi-year sanctions,) NC State, N Carolina, GTech, and Virginia a better catch and lure 7 of the now 9 BEast teams?

I'm very doubtful that the SEC would invite Florida State or Clemson.  The agreements between the teams in the conference would make it difficult for that to happen.  They'd first look to expand their footprint beyond their current boundaries.  The Virginia and North Carolina teams would be their main targets.  They already think they're strong enough football wise, so they'd be willing t absorb more mediocre teams that would give them access to more media markets.  UNC and NC State would give them Raleigh, for instance.  Virginia would give them best access into Richmond and Norfolk. 

Besides, I'm not sure FSU would be interested in the SEC just like I'm not sure a team like West Virginia would be interested if the SEC or Big Ten came calling.  In the Big East these teams have a chance to be the big kids on the block.  FSU would be just another good team from Florida in the SEC.  West Virginia would be diminished in either conference.

I think if there is massive expansion and the ACC dissolves that FSU will end up in the Big East along with Georgia Tech and Clemson.

That would be a horrifying "South" division to play every year.

[macphisto]

If the Big Ten is looking at Maryland then they are going to want something to balance them out.  Could be in preparation for inviting Iowa State if the Big XII does dissolve completely.  There'll be pressure on Iowa from the state government to help Iowa State out and prevent them from being out of a BCS conference entirely. 

The SEC may only look to go to 14.  I could see them taking an interest in UNC, VTech, or Virginia to counter Texas A&M.  Though they could just take Baylor and call it a day. 

I'd guess that the Big Ten may go after Rutgers if Maryland rejects them.  If that occurs then I can see us either taking a Villanova move up seriously, try to pick off an ACC team (Boston College would probably be most interested in jumping), or pull a team up from another conference (Temple, East Carolina, Houston, and UCF would be leading candidates) after adding Mizzou, Kansas, and KState.

I have no doubt that Kansas/K-State would be a package deal and I think Mizzou would prefer to stay with Kansas.  From a media perspective, that gives you access to St. Louis and pretty much locks up Kansas City and Wichita.  Missouri adds another 6 million people tot he Big East fold and Kansas is around 3 million, so 9 million more.

If Rutgers left, I'd probably lean most towards adding Houston because of the market, though Temple would make us stronger in Philly, I think Houston has much more upside - giving us a second stake in Texas and putting us in a big metropolitan area that is growing.  TCU+Houston means Dallas and Houston. 

From a Big East network perspective we would be looking at being on cable in Florida, Pennsylvania, New Jersey (because of Cuse & UConn even if Rutgers leaves), Connecticut, New York, Ohio, Kentucky, Illinois (Louisville and Mizzou may dictate this in southern Illinois), West Virginia, Texas, Missouri, and Kansas.  Syracuse and UConn may also net us most of New England.  Indiana also would likely be there due to Cincy and Louisville - plus ND basketball and other sports. 

So a Big East Network would be in states total 133 million in population - and might end up also getting in Wisconsin due to Marquette and in other states just to add to the sports package. 

[Raetus]

If the Big Ten is looking at Maryland then they are going to want something to balance them out.  Could be in preparation for inviting Iowa State if the Big XII does dissolve completely.  There'll be pressure on Iowa from the state government to help Iowa State out and prevent them from being out of a BCS conference entirely. 

At first I thought you were trolling, but you've said Iowa State enough times for me to think you are serious. This is the same Iowa State that only won two games in 2008, right and whose only significant win in the past years was against an over-ranked #19 Texas who finished the year 5-7?

Their academics are fine, but they add absolutely nothing in TV dollars to the Big 10 and even less to the on-the-field credibility.

I have no problem with Iowa State -- in fact, I rather like their fans -- but, Mizzou has a better chance of making the Big 10 than Iowa State does.

[macphisto]

At first I thought you were trolling, but you've said Iowa State enough times for me to think you are serious. This is the same Iowa State that only won two games in 2008, right and whose only significant win in the past years was against an over-ranked #19 Texas who finished the year 5-7?

Their academics are fine, but they add absolutely nothing in TV dollars to the Big 10 and even less to the on-the-field credibility.

I have no problem with Iowa State -- in fact, I rather like their fans -- but, Mizzou has a better chance of making the Big 10 than Iowa State does.

The Big Ten doesn't really need anything for on-the-field credibility.  Nor do they need anything for TV revenue.  When you have Nebraska, Michigan, Wisconsin, Penn State, Ohio State (despite recent problems) and then have teams like Michigan State and Iowa on the next level, competitive credibility isn't an issue.

I think they'd largely look to Iowa State for balance if they add someone else because adding two teams might be difficult and the top tier of Big Ten teams aren't going to be too keen on adding bigger names.  Virginia Tech could be a great fit, but how thrilled would Penn State, Ohio State, etc be?  Rutgers or Maryland are decent adds because they get you into another market, add a good academic institution, and are often halfway decent recently.  Maryland, obviously, is a better get because Rutgers has a history of terrible play outside of the Schiano era. 

Mizzou will be hard because it is most likely they will want to stick with Kansas.  From what I've read, it seems that the Big East interest in KSU, KU, and Mizzou is mutual and those Big XII schools may have reached out to the BE. 

I don't think the Big Ten would take an interest in Iowa State as a "get", just an easy add IF they get someone else.  If Maryland, Rutgers, and whoever else decide to stay put then the Big Ten will too and Iowa State will probably end up in the Mountain West or the WAC.

So what do I think WILL actually happen?  Probably the path of least resistance.

Texas A&M will leave the Big XII, as they have already announced.  They'll get a SEC invite.  Within the next month, Oklahoma will say they are leaving.  Oklahoma State will follow.  Texas will be free to do so too and Texas Tech will follow.  They will join the PAC-12 and make it the PAC-16.  The SEC will add Texas A&M and probably seek to add to their footprint, but luring teams out of the ACC will prove troublesome, so they will go the path of least resistance and take Baylor.

Kansas, KState, and Mizzou will depart for the Big East next year and join TCU, making us a 12 team football conference and 20 team basketball conference.

Iowa State will move to the MWC, the WAC, or go independent. 

And that'll be it.  The Big East will announce the launch of their own network and will work on a new TV deal, paying out more.  New bowl deals will emerge that will compensate for the lack of the Big XII and the BCS will allow conferences to send up to three teams to BCS games, but will introduce a rotational system to ensure the SEC, PAC-16, etc don't get all the access to those extra conference slots.

With the dissolution of the Big XII, we might see Boise State and BYU head up efforts to replace them with a fifth automatic qualifying conference, taking the best of the non-BCS schools into a continental conference that will get the Big XII's leftover BCS autobid.  I'm thinking Boise State, BYU, maybe all the service academies, San Diego State, East Carolina, UCF, Houston, and SMU at the least.  And that might work because then the two bid limit would stick and the major non-BCS threats like BYU, Boise State, and TCU would all be in BCS conferences.