Buffalo Hoping for B.E.

[theman123]

I say if we wanted to expand, we could do it slowly.  Bring in 2 more, i would like Troy and ECU, and  maybe two more after, possible Buffalo or UCF.

[cygnus34]

Why would any BCS Conf. want the likes of Troy, ECU, or Buffalo?  They cannot play basketball.  There is no room in the Conf. at this time.  The only way to get a good football team is to persuade N.D. to join in Football or get Memphis and let go one of the B.B. teams.  The other alternative is to have the Conf. split off from the BB/ only teams, which no AD has been in favor of.

[macphisto]

The ideal solution would be for ND to join for football but I don't see that happening unless they get shut out of the BCS for the next go round.  If the conferences have standards for qualifying then ND should have them too.  The Irish have two BCS bowl bids in the past four years in which they got blown out and were hardly good the last two years.

I think it's time to make the Irish be lumped in with the other non-BCS conference schools.  I think the BCS will hold together now without Notre Dame.  Could the BCS conferences basically force ND into conference?

If not then Memphis is the best alternative.  They'd likely bring the Liberty Bowl into the fold while bringing in a very good basketball program and a football team that could improve dramatically with the improved stature of being a BCS school.

I don't see it making sense to expand beyond nine football schools unless we go all the way up to 12.  No reason to boot out a bunch of basketball schools. 

Anything beyond nine or ten could tear apart the conference for basketball.  Right now it is evenly balanced between the eight public schools that also play football and the eight catholic schools.  I could see adding Memphis for both and keeping everyone, though that could upset the balance.  I doubt the conference would want to ditch the Milwaukee and Chicago markets and I think Notre Dame would leave if Marquette and/or DePaul left.

Of course a couple of teams could fit really well in the CAA.  Villanova is a CAA member for football, so I could see them being tempted to move or work at growing their program to the point they can jump to FBS.  Villanova is a ways off in average attendance and their stadium only seats 12,500 so it would take a concerted effort to do anything over the next several years.

Georgetown in in the Patriot League for football and moved up from D-III several years ago.  I think Georgetown has some potential.  The school is very well known due to its basketball program and being in DC means there are a lot of potential recruits, but Georgetown is an excellent academic school and currently does not offer scholarships to football players.  They also don't have the facilities or the attendance at this point. 

Both Villanova and Georgetown would have to make a concerted effort to move up to FBS and I'm sure the Big East would have to provide a financial incentive for it to happen.  Translation: Not gonna happen.

I could see Seton Hall, St. John's, and/or Providence thinking of leaving for the Patriot League or the CAA just because they'd be more competitive there for basketball.  Seton Hall and St. John's would probably be at 14 wins now if they were in the CAA, Atlantic 10, or Patriot. 

I think for any shot to get ND in football we'd need to get Boston College back.  They don't want to be the only Catholic football school in the conference.  Problem is that there are not really any catholic football schools to choose from other than BC unless some move up.

So Memphis would be the most realistic addition and one I'd like to see happen.  Ideally it'd be great to make the offer in the offseason and bring Memphis onboard in the 2010 season.  That would give all Big East teams eight conference games in football so we'd only need to schedule four non-conference games.  I'd hope that that would mean we'd ditch the I-AA teams forever unless a team ended up in a bind. 

I'd love to see the BCS force ND's hand by putting the same requirements on them as they do the non-BCS conference teams.  It'd have to be handled delicately, but they did get rid of the automatic annual payment to Notre Dame the last time around. 

If Memphis does come on board and ND then wants in for football I'd look at going to 12 football teams either with football only offers to schools like East Carolina, UCF, Houston, Troy, etc or by getting a couple of other current BCS schools.

Penn State would be a natural target if this situation presented itself.  We offer more natural rivals than the Big Ten does (Rutgers, West Virginia, Pitt, and Syracuse) and the inclusion of Notre Dame could sway the Nittany Lions.  Same goes for Boston College and a possible return.  The ACC would likely replace BC with an offer to either UCF or East Carolina.  The big problem is that the Carolina teams might block ECU and the Florida teams might block UCF.

The Big Ten would then either stay back at ten or end up plucking a team like Mizzou from the Big 12.  They'd then have to go find a 12th team because I think they'd finally decide to go for 12 teams.  They could attempt to lure Nebraska out of the Big 12 or try for a crummy team like Iowa State.  If Mizzou and Nebraska left the Big 12 I could see the B12 bringing in TCU and Utah.  Then the PAC-10 would likely invite Boise State and BYU.  We'd then have all BCS conferences with 12 teams.

But that's not likely.

[BullsOnThaRize8]

lol too long. Moral of the story. Buffalo can keep hoping.

[Cow Pie]

there is no reason for the BE to expand - it is the easiest path to a BCS game than any other BSC conference due to fewer members, and any expansion would just dilute current revenue shares.

I disagree... the reason for the dozens of threads about expansion of the Big East is because the current BCS & Bowl contracts are expiring in 2010 (2011?) and will need to be renegotiated. Many on the outside looking in from ESPN all the way down to the bloggers (including myself) speculate that the Big East will not gain any new bowl games and may in fact loose some, including the possibility of loosing its BCS access, if it does not expand to at least 10 football schools.

If the Big East wants more money like the more wealthier conferences then it needs to make up its mind whether its a basketball conference or all sports conference... Football revenue > Basketball revenue.

I personally would like to see the Big East add 1 team this season and 1 next season... and agree with your statement that it should be a school that is good academically (i.e. not about to or is bordering on loosing its accreditation) sound, has a decent football team that can improve, and a good basketball following so that it will fit into the mixture we currently have. 

Lastly Notre Dame will never join the Big East in football... if they join anyone it will be the Big Ten... thus we should give them an ultimatum to join the Big East or get out altogether.

In place of Notre Dame we then add Navy which is equally historic and according to the Sporting News they want to join the Big East and then add another Southern school (Navy is in Maryland which is part of the South and thus considered Southern, but could still go either way since its Navy and a Federal School managed out of Washington DC) closer to USF's neck of the woods... this will be hard because the only schools close USF are good in their crappy non-BCS Conferences but would be weak potatoes in the Big East.

Thus we would need a fair Southern school like Troy, ECU, Southern Miss or Memphis (not crazy about) and hope that they improve... put them on probation and require them to win at least X amount of games and make X amount of bowl games over X amount of years to remain in the Big East.

This thread has inspired me to begin work on a massive / epic Brahma Bull-E-tin Blog post on this subject.

[KingBull]

After some thought I would selfishly like UCF to join the Big East so I can go to an extra roadie every other year.  I'd also take Memphis and stop at 10 football teams.

Seriously, what's the big difference between 16 and 18 basketball schools.  They could be the first conference to have separated basketball divisions and and inter-league divided tournament.  Make it double elimination and it could go on for a month before march madness.  That would create some revenue!  Plus in terms of basketball Memphis would add a perennial tournament team increasing revenue for the whole pot.

And the liberty bowl could go Big East #3 against SEC #5/6 (whatever it is).  It would easily become a top bowl game.  Instead of praying there are enough 6-6 SEC teams to make the PapaJohns.com bowl we have a good bowl game.

With UCF and USF there could be an outside shot we could pull for one of the Orlando bowl games at the next negotiations.

I don't think that Memphis is involved in the Liberty bowl contract.  Just because Memphis were to join the beast it doesn't mean that the Liberty bowl automatically becomes a beast bowl. 

With that said I believe that 4 bcs programs in the state are enough.  Florida, Texas and North Carolina are the only states with 4 BCS programs while a few others have 3.  We have no need for a 5th.

Just take Rutgers for an example.  They are the only program recruiting directly to NJ/NYC.  They have a huge area by themselvses.  The nearest school is not very good(Temple) and the rest are much further away (Penn, Pitt, Syracuse, Mayland).

My point is that you can't keep diluting the talent even if you want a roadie every other year.

[SoFlaEer]

there is no reason for the BE to expand - it is the easiest path to a BCS game than any other BSC conference due to fewer members, and any expansion would just dilute current revenue shares.

I disagree... the reason for the dozens of threads about expansion of the Big East is because the current BCS & Bowl contracts are expiring in 2010 (2011?) and will need to be renegotiated. Many on the outside looking in from ESPN all the way down to the bloggers (including myself) speculate that the Big East will not gain any new bowl games and may in fact loose some, including the possibility of loosing its BCS access, if it does not expand to at least 10 football schools.

If the Big East wants more money like the more wealthier conferences then it needs to make up its mind whether its a basketball conference or all sports conference... Football revenue > Basketball revenue.

I personally would like to see the Big East add 1 team this season and 1 next season... and agree with your statement that it should be a school that is good academically (i.e. not about to or is bordering on loosing its accreditation) sound, has a decent football team that can improve, and a good basketball following so that it will fit into the mixture we currently have. 

Lastly Notre Dame will never join the Big East in football... if they join anyone it will be the Big Ten... thus we should give them an ultimatum to join the Big East or get out altogether.

In place of Notre Dame we then add Navy which is equally historic and according to the Sporting News they want to join the Big East and then add another Southern school (Navy is in Maryland which is part of the South and thus considered Southern, but could still go either way since its Navy and a Federal School managed out of Washington DC) closer to USF's neck of the woods... this will be hard because the only schools close USF are good in their crappy non-BCS Conferences but would be weak potatoes in the Big East.

Thus we would need a fair Southern school like Troy, ECU, Southern Miss or Memphis (not crazy about) and hope that they improve... put them on probation and require them to win at least X amount of games and make X amount of bowl games over X amount of years to remain in the Big East.

This thread has inspired me to begin work on a massive / epic Brahma Bull-E-tin Blog post on this subject.

IMO nothing is going to change in 2010 or 11 when the new BCS contract is negotiated - if anything, the BCS will look to expand inclusion of more conferences to allay any anti trust lawsuits, they will not be looking to become more exclusive. 

there is absolutely no way they would take the BE's auto bid - you wanna talk about legal action and anti-trust suits, this would be real ugly - no way they could ever justify booting the BE, even if BE tanks the next 2 years, we still would have performed comparably or better than the ACC over the same time period, and ACC isnt gonna lose anything where the BCS is concerned.

the only thing i see happening is the cotton bowl getting added as a 5th BCS bowl, and an expansion of auto bids, with some sort of auto bid sharing arrangement with MWC & WAC & CUSA.  Cotton bowl will start playing at the new cowboys stadium and will be a state of the art facility for a bowl game. 

BE will not lose (it's not "LOOSE", which means less tight - sorry, pet peeve of mine  ) bowl games and will probably come out better off - the last time around was actually the worst negotiating position the conference could have possibly been in right after the raid, and apparently leaderless without a flagship program or national respect - that has since been eliminated -  they will do at least as good again, and probably better.

IMO the Big East has already decided what it is - a hybrid and unique conference.  it isnt going to change just because the fans of the johnny come lately schools dont like the way it currently is structured.  there is a long and complex history prior to USF's admission into the conference, and you really dont have the right to be invited into a conference and then think you can pick and choose who should be in it or who should get booted when these other school have been members since its inception.  you're lucky to have had the opportunity fall into your lap to even get into a BCS conference (and please dont read this as a slam - it is not meant to be, but we all know you guys would not have gotten an invite to a BCS conference except under the specific events that happened - and BTW - i like USF and am gald you are in the BE).

I dont think you are really considering the overall remaifications - there is no room for expansion without the conference splitting, there are no viable marquee program to add that will boost revenues and justify adding them, if the conference breaks up, it is the original members who will retain the BE name, which is a huge point, because it is the BE conference that has the BCS contract and the auto bid to the NCAA - the split off conference of FB schools will not have an auto bid for like 2-3 years, and would be in limbo as to whether they had a contract with the BCS.

you mention navy - navy already turned down the Big East, so no use discussing them.  Army, same thing.

and Troy, ECU, Southern Miss or Memphis ?  you cannot be serious - no one cares about these school regionally or nationally, and that aint gonna change unless they have decades of success like Miami did starting in the 80's, and that aint gonna happen.  Think about it - look at Utah, they have been a good decent solid program for years now but no one cares outside of utah.  the schools you mention will always be second or third or fourth fiddle in their geographic areas, and do nothing but make the BE worse and more deserving of losing its BCS auto bid.

This all comes down to money, nothing more.  the status quo aint gonna change in 2010 - mark my words, as long as delaney is commissioner of the big ten, nothing will change - he has too much political power and he is making way too much money for his conference with the ways things currently stand.  and that will affect everything else.

[SRQ]

there is no reason for the BE to expand - it is the easiest path to a BCS game than any other BSC conference due to fewer members, and any expansion would just dilute current revenue shares.

I disagree... the reason for the dozens of threads about expansion of the Big East is because the current BCS & Bowl contracts are expiring in 2010 (2011?) and will need to be renegotiated. Many on the outside looking in from ESPN all the way down to the bloggers (including myself) speculate that the Big East will not gain any new bowl games and may in fact loose some, including the possibility of loosing its BCS access, if it does not expand to at least 10 football schools.

If the Big East wants more money like the more wealthier conferences then it needs to make up its mind whether its a basketball conference or all sports conference... Football revenue > Basketball revenue.

I personally would like to see the Big East add 1 team this season and 1 next season... and agree with your statement that it should be a school that is good academically (i.e. not about to or is bordering on loosing its accreditation) sound, has a decent football team that can improve, and a good basketball following so that it will fit into the mixture we currently have. 

Lastly Notre Dame will never join the Big East in football... if they join anyone it will be the Big Ten... thus we should give them an ultimatum to join the Big East or get out altogether.

In place of Notre Dame we then add Navy which is equally historic and according to the Sporting News they want to join the Big East and then add another Southern school (Navy is in Maryland which is part of the South and thus considered Southern, but could still go either way since its Navy and a Federal School managed out of Washington DC) closer to USF's neck of the woods... this will be hard because the only schools close USF are good in their crappy non-BCS Conferences but would be weak potatoes in the Big East.

Thus we would need a fair Southern school like Troy, ECU, Southern Miss or Memphis (not crazy about) and hope that they improve... put them on probation and require them to win at least X amount of games and make X amount of bowl games over X amount of years to remain in the Big East.

This thread has inspired me to begin work on a massive / epic Brahma Bull-E-tin Blog post on this subject.

IMO nothing is going to change in 2010 or 11 when the new BCS contract is negotiated - if anything, the BCS will look to expand inclusion of more conferences to allay any anti trust lawsuits, they will not be looking to become more exclusive. 

there is absolutely no way they would take the BE's auto bid - you wanna talk about legal action and anti-trust suits, this would be real ugly - no way they could ever justify booting the BE, even if BE tanks the next 2 years, we still would have performed comparably or better than the ACC over the same time period, and ACC isnt gonna lose anything where the BCS is concerned.

the only thing i see happening is the cotton bowl getting added as a 5th BCS bowl, and an expansion of auto bids, with some sort of auto bid sharing arrangement with MWC & WAC & CUSA.  Cotton bowl will start playing at the new cowboys stadium and will be a state of the art facility for a bowl game.   

BE will not lose (it's not "LOOSE", which means less tight - sorry, pet peeve of mine  ) bowl games and will probably come out better off - the last time around was actually the worst negotiating position the conference could have possibly been in right after the raid, and apparently leaderless without a flagship program or national respect - that has since been eliminated -  they will do at least as good again, and probably better.

IMO the Big East has already decided what it is - a hybrid and unique conference.  it isnt going to change just because the fans of the johnny come lately schools dont like the way it currently is structured.  there is a long and complex history prior to USF's admission into the conference, and you really dont have the right to be invited into a conference and then think you can pick and choose who should be in it or who should get booted when these other school have been members since its inception.  you're lucky to have had the opportunity fall into your lap to even get into a BCS conference (and please dont read this as a slam - it is not meant to be, but we all know you guys would not have gotten an invite to a BCS conference except under the specific events that happened - and BTW - i like USF and am gald you are in the BE).

I dont think you are really considering the overall remaifications - there is no room for expansion without the conference splitting, there are no viable marquee program to add that will boost revenues and justify adding them, if the conference breaks up, it is the original members who will retain the BE name, which is a huge point, because it is the BE conference that has the BCS contract and the auto bid to the NCAA - the split off conference of FB schools will not have an auto bid for like 2-3 years, and would be in limbo as to whether they had a contract with the BCS.

you mention navy - navy already turned down the Big East, so no use discussing them.  Army, same thing.

and Troy, ECU, Southern Miss or Memphis ?  you cannot be serious - no one cares about these school regionally or nationally, and that aint gonna change unless they have decades of success like Miami did starting in the 80's, and that aint gonna happen.  Think about it - look at Utah, they have been a good decent solid program for years now but no one cares outside of utah.  the schools you mention will always be second or third or fourth fiddle in their geographic areas, and do nothing but make the BE worse and more deserving of losing its BCS auto bid.

This all comes down to money, nothing more.  the status quo aint gonna change in 2010 - mark my words, as long as delaney is commissioner of the big ten, nothing will change - he has too much political power and he is making way too much money for his conference with the ways things currently stand.  and that will affect everything else.

Eer we are glad (and its not gald, pet peeve; not really) to have you on the board, but you should try to understand that we are located in a state in which every johnny-come-lately thinks he/she gets to start making the rules 5 minutes after arrival.

We don't have a clue. but since we don't have a BE quality basketball team, we have to bs about something this time of year.

[macphisto]

IMO nothing is going to change in 2010 or 11 when the new BCS contract is negotiated - if anything, the BCS will look to expand inclusion of more conferences to allay any anti trust lawsuits, they will not be looking to become more exclusive. 

there is absolutely no way they would take the BE's auto bid - you wanna talk about legal action and anti-trust suits, this would be real ugly - no way they could ever justify booting the BE, even if BE tanks the next 2 years, we still would have performed comparably or better than the ACC over the same time period, and ACC isnt gonna lose anything where the BCS is concerned.

This is true.  And if the Big East keeps winning their BCS games then I don't see any threats at removal for an automatic bid.  The ACC has won one BCS game in the last nine or so seasons.  If anyone should be worried about losing a bid it should be them and we know that won't happen.

BE will not lose (it's not "LOOSE", which means less tight - sorry, pet peeve of mine  ) bowl games and will probably come out better off - the last time around was actually the worst negotiating position the conference could have possibly been in right after the raid, and apparently leaderless without a flagship program or national respect - that has since been eliminated -  they will do at least as good again, and probably better.

Agreed.  Most forget how bad of shape that the Big East was perceived to be in after the exodus to the ACC.  Pitt had been mediocre or worse for years.  Syracuse was slumping.  The CUSA teams were on board.  Rutgers was a historically bad football program.  UConn had little history in I-A.  Only West Virginia had been anywhere near good and they weren't considered elite.

Now Syracuse is still bad, but they have a good history and could put things back together down the road.  Louisville was good at least under Petrino.  Cincy is a rising star with a great coach.  UConn likes to stay in the thick of things.  Pitt has gotten better, though I think Wannstedt is still an iffy coach.  WVU has won two big BCS games and managed to beat a good UNC squad.  USF has been ranked in the top ten the last two years and may figure out how to close the deal.

There's potential to expand the quality of our bowls.

IMO the Big East has already decided what it is - a hybrid and unique conference.  it isnt going to change just because the fans of the johnny come lately schools dont like the way it currently is structured.  there is a long and complex history prior to USF's admission into the conference, and you really dont have the right to be invited into a conference and then think you can pick and choose who should be in it or who should get booted when these other school have been members since its inception.  you're lucky to have had the opportunity fall into your lap to even get into a BCS conference (and please dont read this as a slam - it is not meant to be, but we all know you guys would not have gotten an invite to a BCS conference except under the specific events that happened - and BTW - i like USF and am gald you are in the BE).

But the thing is that once USF joins it ended up with equal say in the conference because everyone gets a vote.  We also are the only team from the conference in a state that a lot of Big East schools like to recruit in. 

I dont think you are really considering the overall remaifications - there is no room for expansion without the conference splitting, there are no viable marquee program to add that will boost revenues and justify adding them, if the conference breaks up, it is the original members who will retain the BE name, which is a huge point, because it is the BE conference that has the BCS contract and the auto bid to the NCAA - the split off conference of FB schools will not have an auto bid for like 2-3 years, and would be in limbo as to whether they had a contract with the BCS.

Actually we don't know what would happen because not all of the original BE members are basketball only.  Syracuse and UConn won't go anywhere and they are original members.  Pitt is an early member. 

I also don't think we necessarily need to kick people out.  Some might leave of their own accord.  Notre Dame is not an original member and they could be booted if they don't want to join for football.  That might lose us DePaul as well, but that's not loss.

I don't think anyone really wants to see Seton Hall or St. John's booted, but they could be interested in moving because the Big East is a lot tougher than it used to be. 

And I do think you could either add a football only team or add another multi-sport team and not mess things up too much.

Nine teams for football is better than eight for scheduling.

you mention navy - navy already turned down the Big East, so no use discussing them.  Army, same thing.

and Troy, ECU, Southern Miss or Memphis ?  you cannot be serious - no one cares about these school regionally or nationally, and that aint gonna change unless they have decades of success like Miami did starting in the 80's, and that aint gonna happen.  Think about it - look at Utah, they have been a good decent solid program for years now but no one cares outside of utah.  the schools you mention will always be second or third or fourth fiddle in their geographic areas, and do nothing but make the BE worse and more deserving of losing its BCS auto bid.

People in Memphis do care about Memphis and adding them makes the Big East on the basketball side even stronger.  They also could bring the Liberty Bowl into the fold.  Don't you think the Liberty Bowl would prefer a Big East vs. SEC matchup over a CUSA vs. SEC matchup?

But Memphis also has potential in football and could improve with BCS affiliation.

And UCF, ECU, Troy, etc are viable solutions as football only members.

And Navy wasn't really offered to join the Big East.  The Big East asked for them to affiliate with the Big East and play four BE schools each year.  The problem is that they don't really want football only members and they can't add multi-sport members because of too many basketball members.

And part of this was caused by adding DePaul and Marquette to placate Notre Dame and balance out the Catholic and the non-Catholic schools. 

This is going to come to a head eventually because half of the conference would like to add more football teams - and that half of the conference generates more revenue. 

The one solution for a ninth team that would placate most would be to lure Boston College back into the fold and boot DePaul.  Only Notre Dame might not like that, but ND also probably would like having BC back in conference for basketball and the Big East could be sure to schedule DePaul regularly as part of any agreement for them to leave - if they wanted to do that.  I think DePaul could be more successful in something like the MVC. 

I also don't think getting ND in for football is impossible, but a unique arrangement would have to be put into place.  ND would get to keep their NBC deal and would be more likely to join for football if BC came back.  For a ten team conference we'd end up with a roundrobin style of play with only three out of conference games and nine in the conference.  The major problem would be tension over ND getting a lot of extra money and not sharing it on the football side.

[SoFlaEer]

I misspoke above - the BCS contract is thru 2013, not 2010, so BE is a BCS conference at least until then.