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Plancher autopsy released


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Whether he cursed or not is not the issue.

I "almost" agree with you.  If GOL said, as his team claims, that he cursed the kid out because he practiced like crap I would have absolutly no problem.  The kid had a bad practice, GOL didn't know he was having major medical problems, and coaches have yelled and cursed at players since coaching began.  The problem is that I want my head coach to have integrity.  When he makes a statement I want to believe it for a fact.  GOL cursed at Plancher, then in hindsight thought "man that could be spun pretty bad" and said he just called him out in the huddle.  It isn't the cursing that would bother me if I was a UCF booster, it is my coach not being forthright and honest.

I have no way of proving what is fact what isn't.  He used typical political spin that coaches and politics use(there is a surprising similarity).  Being called out could have involved cussing or not.  Being called out leaves it pretty wide open.

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Schools are in a bind over sickle cell trait.. if you treat the kid different you are open to lawsuits.. such as the living darling pushed against fsu.. you treat them the same and something happens you get lawsuits.  There was nothing wrong with the workouts done.. should the coaches recognized the problems he was having and known of the trait.. probably.. the whole lying to the press thing is just plain stupid.  the last part of the days work lasted 10 1/2 minutes.. oleary said it was 10.  there was breaks between each session.. how long?? I don't know.  these workouts go on at every major college in the country on a regular basis.. and deaths do and will continue to happen.. It happened at FSU, it happened at UF, it happened at USF and It happened at UCF.. as well as 5 other schools.  

The problem here isn't solely that the kid died.  As you pointed out, that has happened before at schools and will certainly happen again.  The problem is that therewas a cover up from the first minute.  Certainly USF or FSU, or other schools didn't lay out the entire story the first time the school spoke to the press.  But to my knowledge, no one at the school every gave misleading or completely false information.  This happened months ago, and until yesterday UCF didn't even acknowledge that they knew he had the sickle cell trait.  The worst part is that no one from the school is willing to meet with anyone to "clarify" what they claim is misinformation.  If you were O'Liar and the newspaper had something wrong, wouldn't you be on the phone with them within seconds?  I know I would. 

One thing that I always thought was strange was that the UCF player carried Plancher outside the building to await the ambulance.  I have never heard of such a thing.  If a player is in distress, the trainer should be working on him right there.  The EMS units go to where the person is in distress and treat them there, rather than addind additional trauma.  Certainly if he needed CPR or a defibrillator, they should have been doing that instead of moving him. 

*** PURE SPECULATION ON MY PART ***  but the only explanation I can come up with is that there wasn't a trainer around, and they carried him closer to the trainer to get help more quickly.  *** THAT WAS MERELY SPECULATION, but I'd sure like to hear an explanation from the school about that part of the "response".

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The problem here isn't solely that the kid died.  As you pointed out, that has happened before at schools and will certainly happen again.  The problem is that there was a cover up from the first minute.  Certainly USF or FSU, or other schools didn't lay out the entire story the first time the school spoke to the press.  But to my knowledge, no one at the school every gave misleading or completely false information.  This happened months ago, and until yesterday UCF didn't even acknowledge that they knew he had the sickle cell trait.  The worst part is that no one from the school is willing to meet with anyone to "clarify" what they claim is misinformation.  If you were O'Liar and the newspaper had something wrong, wouldn't you be on the phone with them within seconds?  I know I would. 

One thing that I always thought was strange was that the UCF player carried Plancher outside the building to await the ambulance.  I have never heard of such a thing.  If a player is in distress, the trainer should be working on him right there.  The EMS units go to where the person is in distress and treat them there, rather than addind additional trauma.  Certainly if he needed CPR or a defibrillator, they should have been doing that instead of moving him. 

*** PURE SPECULATION ON MY PART ***  but the only explanation I can come up with is that there wasn't a trainer around, and they carried him closer to the trainer to get help more quickly.  *** THAT WAS MERELY SPECULATION, but I'd sure like to hear an explanation from the school about that part of the "response".

To answer your first question, until another governmental agency (coroner) publicised the SCT, UCF was prohibited from disclosing that fact due to HIPPA regulations.  To answer the 2nd question, UCF has disclosed the facts that are in contention - The Rag refuses to acknowledge that communication.  To answer the 3rd, while EP was moved outside of the practice facility after he was in distress, he was on a defibrillator and under CPR by trainers when the UCF EMTs arrived.

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To answer the 2nd question, UCF has disclosed the facts that are in contention - The Rag refuses to acknowledge that communication.

What might those be? 

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Thanks for the clarifications.  I'll assume for the moment that you have accurate information.  If so, I am more disturbed than ever.

To answer your first question, until another governmental agency (coroner) publicised the SCT, UCF was prohibited from disclosing that fact due to HIPPA regulations. 

According to the Sentinel, who is presumably being extra careful at this point, UCF denied multiple times that they were aware of the Sickle Cell trait.  It wasn't reported that UCF did not state that he had the condition, but rather that they did not know about the condition.  They have now reversed their stance, as the family and others within UCF would certainly know the truth.

To answer the 2nd question, UCF has disclosed the facts that are in contention - The Rag refuses to acknowledge that communication. 

Which facts?  Who has disclosed them?  Why has UCF stonewalled the primary media outlet in the area if the facts are incorrect.  UCF could easy have their own press conference to dispute the Sentinel article, but they have not.  They are even refusing to speak to ESPN, which they could use to embarass the Sentinel if they wished.  UCF is looking awful right now, and they are turning down every opportunity to straighten out the record.  Perhaps you have some facts that you would like to share to clear things up.

To answer the 3rd, while EP was moved outside of the practice facility after he was in distress, he was on a defibrillator and under CPR by trainers when the UCF EMTs arrived.

There you have it in a nutshell.  USF has dealt with this crisis scenario twice in the last 18 months.  In both cases, there was a trainer on site who was able to put the athlete on CPR and a defibrillator within a couple of minutes, without having to move them.  In Christie Ecks case, it saved her life.  Clearly it had to have taken more time to apply those lifesaving techniques to Plancher.  Was it three minutes?  Five?  Ten?  In those situations, even a minute can mean the difference between life and death. 

With the incidents in the last few years in the state of Florida alone, that is completely unacceptable.  If your above statement is true, UCF will be settling the lawsuit for a large dollar amount.  No wonder they don't want to talk to the press.

***  CAVEAT  ***  I stand by the above statements as my opinion, and only if HoopsMcKnight is presenting accurate information.  This is a sensitive, but serious topic.  I can only give opinions on what is public.  There may well be other information exonerating the university that I have not yet seen or heard.

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To answer the 3rd, while EP was moved outside of the practice facility after he was in distress, he was on a defibrillator and under CPR by trainers when the UCF EMTs arrived.

Who was he moved by? I'm with DB, the first thing you're always told is don't move somebody like that until professional help (in this case, trainers would fall under that category) has arrived unless, obviously, staying further endangers the patient.

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A 19-year-old University of Central Florida football player whose death resulted from an inherited gene cited in the collapse of several young athletes was aware of his condition and monitored regularly, the school's athletic director said Friday.

Ereck Plancher, a redshirt freshman wide receiver from Naples, Fla., died March 18 following an offseason conditioning session, and the Orange County Medical Examiner ruled Thursday that his death was tied to his carrying the sickle cell trait.

The condition does not preclude athletes from competing, but the National Association of Athletic Trainers (NATA) issued a warning in June 2007 that nine athletes had died since 2000 because of complications related to carrying the trait; NATA set forth a series of precautions for monitoring athletes with the trait.

On Thursday, ESPN.com reported that Plancher had been screened positive for the trait twice in 2007, once in January and again in June. UCF acknowledged its trainers and coaches knew Plancher had the trait, but it offered no details about when it was discovered, what precautions were taken as a result and whether team personnel were aware of the NATA warning.

Click <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3495897">here</a> for more!

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Thanks for the clarifications.  I'll assume for the moment that you have accurate information.  If so, I am more disturbed than ever.

To answer your first question, until another governmental agency (coroner) publicised the SCT, UCF was prohibited from disclosing that fact due to HIPPA regulations.

According to the Sentinel, who is presumably being extra careful at this point, UCF denied multiple times that they were aware of the Sickle Cell trait.  It wasn't reported that UCF did not state that he had the condition, but rather that they did not know about the condition.  They have now reversed their stance, as the family and others within UCF would certainly know the truth.

To answer the 2nd question, UCF has disclosed the facts that are in contention - The Rag refuses to acknowledge that communication.

Which facts?  Who has disclosed them?  Why has UCF stonewalled the primary media outlet in the area if the facts are incorrect.  UCF could easy have their own press conference to dispute the Sentinel article, but they have not.  They are even refusing to speak to ESPN, which they could use to embarass the Sentinel if they wished.  UCF is looking awful right now, and they are turning down every opportunity to straighten out the record.  Perhaps you have some facts that you would like to share to clear things up.

To answer the 3rd, while EP was moved outside of the practice facility after he was in distress, he was on a defibrillator and under CPR by trainers when the UCF EMTs arrived.

There you have it in a nutshell.  USF has dealt with this crisis scenario twice in the last 18 months.  In both cases, there was a trainer on site who was able to put the athlete on CPR and a defibrillator within a couple of minutes, without having to move them.  In Christie Ecks case, it saved her life.  Clearly it had to have taken more time to apply those lifesaving techniques to Plancher.  Was it three minutes?  Five?  Ten?  In those situations, even a minute can mean the difference between life and death. 

With the incidents in the last few years in the state of Florida alone, that is completely unacceptable.  If your above statement is true, UCF will be settling the lawsuit for a large dollar amount.  No wonder they don't want to talk to the press.

***  CAVEAT  ***  I stand by the above statements as my opinion, and only if HoopsMcKnight is presenting accurate information.  This is a sensitive, but serious topic.  I can only give opinions on what is public.  There may well be other information exonerating the university that I have not yet seen or heard.

I apologize for not being message board adept - I don't know how to insert my comments immediately after yours.  Here are my responses.

1.  I've spent the morning re-reading every OS and campus newspaper article I could find on the net.  Nowhere did UCF state that EP did not have SCT - they consistently stated that he had passed physicals and had been medically cleared.  Once the autopsy results were released (and HIPPA disclosure regulations no longer in force), the University was able to state that their testing included the discovery of SCT, and that was disclosed to EP.  BTW, as we were told at UF Orientation last month for McKnight Lad #3, HIPPA regulations prevent the University from disclosing medical records to anyone - including parents.  It would have been up to EP to disclose that information to anyone else - including his parents.

2.  You'll have to trust me on this one - this is a matter of trust with a member of UCFAA.  Perhaps now that the medical records/autopsy are public record, some of the contentious facts can be made public.  The GOL refusal to speak to the OS is in part related to the EP story, but there's an element of other issues as well (including the selection of our new OS beat writer).

3.  Here's a quote from the OS story that gave those 4 players' side of the story:

http://msn.foxsports.com/cfb/story/8016966/UCF-players-refute-practice-death-account

"Plancher was noticeably woozy and staggering as he tried to participate in the final jumping-jacks drill, the players said. The team finished those exercises, then huddled again. Plancher collapsed while walking away from the final huddle, the players said.  O'Leary said the team trainer and an assistant coach tried to give Plancher water. Players carried Plancher outside and waited for an ambulance to arrive while trainers began rescue breathing and cardiopulmonary resuscitation, called 911 and attached an automated external defibrillator."

It states that trainers were involved in the rescue attempt from the start, and gave CPR prior to the arrival of the EMTs/ambulance.  Given the sequence of the story, it implies that the players moved EP under the supervision of the training staff.  Having been to the IPF several times, I doubt he was moved more than 10 yards in order to get him outside, but that's an opinion.  Was that a damning decision or act?  I'm not medically qualified to make that statement

Another (long) article states that 6-7 other players were struggling that day, and that while one other player threw-up, Ereck did not.

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Morale on their team must be low.  And there are probably players that simply do not trust the coaches or school admin.

This season at UCF will be one of the toughest coaching jobs ever.  If O'Leary is able to get the ENTIRE team to trust him and root out or quell the lockerroom malcontents it will be an impressive coaching job.

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Morale on their team must be low.  And there are probably players that simply do not trust the coaches or school admin.

Actually, it seems to be at an all-time high right now and the players/parents/recruits trust in O'Leary has never been higher.

UCF is coming off their first ever conf championship in school history and UCF is off to its best and fastest start in regards to football recruiting.

I'm sorry the actual facts run contrary to your wishes.

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