"USF no longer safety school" article

[mikebeau]

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/apr/18/usf-no-longer-safety-school/

not a bad read. but has something changes with the SAT?  I can't believe a student could pull a 4.5 and only get an 880 on the SAT.  The SAT got harder or schools have gotten way too easy.  I had honors courses and barely maintained a 3.0 unweighted 3.5 weighted, but I got an 1170 on the SAT. 

I feel like if you can pull a 4.5, you'd better be able to get over 1000 on the SAT.

Also, glad i got through school when I did.  Or else I might not have went with the rising requirements.

[22ndStBULL]

Nice read, but I think that USF has not been a "safety school" for a few years.

I know it was my first pick, and quite alot of my friends who are younger then me who wanted to come here did not get in.

Also...

I thank god that I am not 16 or 17 years old in FL, as it will now be ridiculous to get a decent education after high school. All of us who are already in, or nearing graduation at any of the 4 year universities (yes, even ucif!) should be thankful that we have gotten in before the dream comes to a screeching halt....

[AndytheBull]

Yeah, I started in Aug. 05, and I didnt even apply anywhere else. 

[Reliabull]

You have to remember that sometimes the Trib news section reflects the mindset of the Palma Ceia/Plant crowd and doesn't really reflect reality as we know it at USF. USF has not been a safety school for most of Hillsborough County for quite some time, but it still carries that tag among the old-money crowd down in certain parts of South Tampa.

Re: Low SATs and high GPAs...as someone who has seen lots of college applications, this is not as uncommon as you think. This disparity can represent a relative lack of native-language English background, mathphobia, low socioeconomic status, or a relative lack of rigor in the individual high school curriculum, actual measurable fear of standardized tests or any number of other factors.

[Costa]

I think that it is great that they are upping the requirements. Maybe the majority of students will be proud to go to USF because they will have worked hard to get in!!!! We are the real deal and its about time that everyone outside of USF sees it.

[Belle of the Bull]

You have to remember that sometimes the Trib news section reflects the mindset of the Palma Ceia/Plant crowd and doesn't really reflect reality as we know it at USF. USF has not been a safety school for most of Hillsborough County for quite some time, but it still carries that tag among the old-money crowd down in certain parts of South Tampa.

Re: Low SATs and high GPAs...as someone who has seen lots of college applications, this is not as uncommon as you think. This disparity can represent a relative lack of native-language English background, mathphobia, low socioeconomic status, or a relative lack of rigor in the individual high school curriculum, actual measurable fear of standardized tests or any number of other factors.

Some thoughts (I love procrastinating at work!):

Totally agree with the post above. as someone who has worked as a teacher (college) and someone who has worked for ACT grading exams (hell on earth) - I can tell you that Low SAT/ACT and high GPAs are "normal"  (whatever that means). But they shouldn't be. To some degree the tests are BS. - Well to a large degree they are BS. I have many students in my class right now that are athletes and deemed "high risk" because they have low test scores/low GPAs and the reason they got excepted was to play sports. I can honestly say that I really don't notice a difference between these kids and the kids that are admitted once they get there. Its AMAZING what will happen to a kid once the are pushed - and its AMAZING what labels can do! Label a kid high risk/gifted/special - and most likely he/she will start to act that way.

But as for the Palma Ceia mindset, I don't think thats a bad thing. No offense but if USF (or UM, FSU, UCF, FAU, etc) AREN't safety schools (and a safety schiool can be your first choice too mind you) then what does that say about YOU? This is Florida people! the public school system and to a large extend the private school system is not really that great. So if you can't pull a 3.5 (unweighted) in an average public high school in FL.....

Again no offense, but kids that go to Plant and that old money crowd considers USF a safety because they are prepared in HS to apply to competitive universities and compete nationally with other applicants. Plant kids do think USF is a safety and rightly so. Its not that hard to get in! Nor is it that hard to get in at FSU or UCF! Having a weighted 4.9 GPA isn't saying much when your classes are not that hard. I took honors and AP classes when I was in HS at Plant and they were hard but not that hard. I can imagine that its only gotten easier - as I graduated some time ago.

The thing that many might not realize is that a lot of palma ceia kids choose USF because they know they can get in AND want to go there.

(I know at least 15% of Academy of the Holy Names graduates chose USF last year)  That will change with the budget cuts but we need to be realistic about the quality of education in FL!

The question should not be IF USF is a safety school but WHY and for WHOM!

Even with the increased standards - its still not as hard to get in compared to other schools- esp those out of state. As FL curriculum gets easier and budget cuts increase - it will be harder and harder to get into college! And it should be because its freaking easy as anything to graduate! Its sad but very true. We don't pay teachers enough, don't invest in education in Florida, have weak curriculum, don't help the underprivileged enough  (i.e. Plant kids do pretty well while other schools in lower income areas do not)- and we are surprised at this? 

I graduated from Plant and my safeties were FSU, UCF and USF. I applied to 10 schools. I ended up at USF not because I didn't get in to "harder" schools but because I WANTED to go there! FSU is also a "safety" school for many kids and that option is disappearing.

To some extent that is a good thing. Well its a very good thing for USF, FSU and UF because they can offer kids a spot and they will actually take it! For example, my 16 year old neighbor in Palma Ceia got a 1400 on his SAT and he AND his out-of-state girlfriend both want to go to USF in 2009. 

We need to investigate WHY kids are able to make As in high school and then come to college and struggle. This also is not a problem just in FL - I teach at the 19th best public institution in the country and I get kids who say "I got As in high school so why can't I do well in college?"

Again, I don't mean to offend anyone who does not consider USF a safety school. I guess i am saying that we've got to invest in K-12 education if we want our kids to get a good education. If most of the USF student body does not consider USF a safety school (and I am not saying the ones who applied this year or last year) - then we need to rethink the quality of k-12 education in FL.

sorry for the long post! back to work ciao!

[usfbullcpa]

I also read earlier this year that the state wants to shift the college path so you basically have to go to JUCO for the first two years then transfer to University.  The one way to make this shift is to reduce funding to the University, raise the standards and lower the underclass size.  Job done, now, try to get into HCC with 30,000 students trying to get in there.

[Reliabull]

Belle: I think you and I are defining 'safety school' differently. I think the definition used in the article may be something like 'an academically inferior school that someone would only attend if they could not get into -- or bombed out of -- a "real" school.' (I like your definition a lot better.)

I think USF became a real school quite some time ago. But I believe not everybody in the power structure of Tampa Bay has figured that out yet. I'm glad to hear that more students from AHN are seriously considering USF.

I suspect it will be very difficult to gain admission to USF a year from now.

[USF_64_UCF_12]

I got into USF this year with a 1240/1600 and an 1870/2400 with a 3.28 gpa on USF's scale.  I don't see how anyone with a 4.3 could only get an 880 wow.

[Guest chuszai]

This is great.  The standards definitely need to be raised.  I'm pretty shocked while sitting in class with how some people could have gotten in.  USF was the "safety school" for almost all of my graduating class, although most ended up at FSU or UF.  Whenever I talk to them I pretty much get looked down upon because I go to USF which is an "inferior" school, so I am glad something is getting done about this.

About the high GPA's and low SAT scores - quite a few people I went to school with cheated off of the nerdy kids and when it came time for SAT's they got screwed.  Plus, they could have just taken fluffy classes.  For instance, my cousin took 3 art classes the last semester of high school while I was taking all AP and Honors classes.  It was pretty ridiculous.