opinions on qb play and position

[BULLheaded]

what I don't get is how quickly we've decided that Smith is an idiot after so many praised him for the UL win. Was the game plan for Pitt a good one? No -- it was ineffective. The play was bad. We got some bad breaks. We did some silly stuff. It was a disaster more or less.

Is it the end of the world or a sign that the Bulls are toast this year? Maybe. I like to think it is not and that it was an aberration. I think that way in hopes that we might right the ship and get our collective asses to a Bowl game or even a winning record.

It's not the first time I've seen people change their tune after a loss.

basically-- it comes down to this-- we don't like to lose and many want to know why we lose. So the blame game starts. Is that productive? To me-- not so much. Perhaps it is cathartic for others. I find it very frustrating-- almost more so than the loss itself.

With any luck-- the team has shaken off the play of the Pitt game and shows up ready to go against WVU. We need them to win that game badly or this board will go into meltdown mode.

So for the sake of the Bull Nation-- perhaps we should think positive thoughts, say our prayers, and try to believe in this team we all love (or is it love to hate) so very much.

I don't believe I've changed at all. I've been critical of our offensive coaches since the Blackwell days. I've been expecially critical of Hobbie and Smith and you can go back and find the multi-page debate I had with bien about smith's rediculous promotion. Now, I'll admit that after a couple of games this year I had some hope that my fears were totally off base and Smith might work out. Unfortunately that hope has been crushed by watching the last two painfull spectacles. The reason I get so vocal about it is because Leavitt is so loyal that I wonder if he can make coaching changes, if not then what? What's the outlook for the forseeable future? I hate to think that what we've seen for the past couple of years is what we will see on a continuous basis going forward. Do we then just hope to bring in only players that are so **** good that we don't need coaching? Shoot maybe I'm just hoping a positive person like yourself will throw me a thread of hope to hang on to but right now I don't see it with the currenct offensive coaching staff.

Now that being said what do you expect? It wasn't like we won a close game and lost two close games. We blew out Louisville bringing everyone a huge high. We then followed that by not just losing but looking so horrendous that we needed to play the theme to the "bad news bulls" everytime the offense took the field. I mean those last two game weren't just losses they were pure pain. It was like seeing every fear I've had about Smith and his abilities showcased on play after play after play after play after play after play after play and on and on.....oh then Hall gets the ball and does something fantastic mixed in all that painful crap called an offense.

I do wish sometimes I had your ability to always see the positive side of things, unfortunately that will never be the case for me. My personality is to always look for the weak link and fix it and to me it appears smith is a weak link and I have no ability to sugar coat that. Can I fix it? Obviously not, but I also can't keep quiet about it. I hope beyond hope that you are right we can put it together and somehow become a better team.

[MikeG]

I'm not feeling all that positive myself lately about our team-- and that's understandable after some tough games to watch.

Everyone approaches the game a little differently. I don't want anyone to get the impression I was referring specifically to them--- I speaking purely in generalities. The bye week might have been good timing to heal some of our injuries but it only made us have to talk about the Miami loss that much longer. Then we rolled that into the Pitt loss and the downward spiral starts to set in.

Let's just say this-- the Bulls fans are a lot like our bowl chances and all the other positives that can come from this season--- we need to win to see it happen and be happy about our team.

I was pretty apprehensive about being too rah-rah about this year. I got excited as usual but I certainly couldn't have imagine a game like the UL game. Perhaps the USF fans, coaches, and team are all impacted by that odd occurance. I never expected it to be like that-- I thought we would give them a bettergame than last year. When things went our way-- and man-- so many things did-- it gave me new lofty expectations for a team that was 4-7 last year. I thoght we would be luky to break .500 this season based on the schedule before us. Then I saw the guys at FAD and at PSU and was impressed-- plain and simple. For those who claimed PSU was a terrible loss, I somehow saw hope. I saw a line that was blocking very well and a defense that just wasn't there last season.

Bottom line-- we could lose the rest ofthe game sthis year and that win against UL could still be enough for me to call this season pretty **** good-- all things from the past two years considered. That's a stretch of course and I don'tthink we will lose that much going out-- but still, youhave to admit that there are few highs like the one we had after that game.

Anyway-- let's give it a shot-- see what our young guns can do out there against the rest of the Big East and on a difficult road schedule. People who want to talk crap about PJ-- we get it, you want more or something different. That horse has been pulverized.

[smazza]

i don't mena this to be personal or mean but this statement is odd:

Bottom line-- we could lose the rest ofthe game sthis year and that win against UL could still be enough for me to call this season pretty **** good--

this attitude that prevails in usf sports to be satisfied with a losing season is why we still have a smith running the offesne

there is no accountability by leavitt

the expectations are so low at usf that mikeg(clearly a great fan and supporter )thinks one win is  good season

i thought after pitt win in 2001 usf shoul dbe on their way

it never happened.usf never built on that great win.

the recruits didn't come

and too me things got much worse

i thought we would win 3 games this year but i can't understand how we can be so bad

i knew when leavitt said jewelmiste was still in the picture in the spring and smith got promote that this was going to be a dismal year.i cancel my 8 season tickets.

too me is was clear as day,leavitt doesn't have a clue about offense or offensive coaches

nothing will change until leavitt is gone

i know this pisses people off but it is what it is.leavitt ain't changing and neither is the usf offense or the results

[Jake_Ryan]

Why can't some of you get it through your thick heads - PJ is the best we've got because USF couldn't recruit the talent needed at QB until now.  

The program was nonexistent less than 10 years ago.  There was no football facility, or decent weight room.  There were no conference ties to a BCS bid.  There was no history or tradition at USF Football.  How can you expect USF to compete in major recruiting circles with these obstacles?

This era of 'instant gratification' makes me sick.  Coming to this board after a loss and reading all the whining about PJ, the coaching staff, etc makes me sick.

This is a building year.  Anyone who thinks differently is misguided.  There was a great, unexpected win over UL.  There was a discppointing loss.  There will be more.  This is a young team.

Have some freakin' patience.  The future is bright.

[Guest S.  Bien]

are welcome here

with pj we will never beat a big east team on the road

smazza the question you should be asking is who will Smith's scapegoat be next year if he doesn't start PJ?  PJ's made enough plays in the first six games to demonstrate he can be an effective QB with the right offense surrounding him.

As you can guess the current offense isn't it, and I am dumbfounded how the staff hasn't recognized that yet?  It's like they're simply sticking with their cheap, antiquated gameplan, and scheme and going to bed each night praying one day PJ will wake up and be the 31-36 passer they need.  Sorry, but few QB's are going to excel in this system.

Like I said a few days ago you know good coaches when you see it, and when see their players play on the field.  You want a good example then look no further than our team.   Last year our defense was atrocious, played bad, and was leaking everywhere.  We all know and agree we've got a plethora of great coaches on defense.  In one year they turned everything around, they made Mike Jenkins and Trae Williams go from CB experiments to possible all-conference studs...on and on, and on.  Great coaches make adjustments, they make improvements.

On offense the only area where I see this team and the athletes continually improving is at OL, and RB somewhat.  We knew what type of athletes we had at QB going back to December.  Good coaches adapt, over-come, adjust.   Smith would have done himself well to stick around his mentor for a few more years, Rich Rodriguez.  He could have seen how Rich adapted his spread offense when he was faced with having bad passers at QB running the offense- Rasheed Marshall, and this current duo are not going to set the world on fire passing.  Yet over the past four years Rich keeps winning with that talent, and his spread attack has become more spread option and relying more on the run.  WOW, is that how good coaches do it?

[Bull94]

Why can't some of you get it through your thick heads - PJ is the best we've got because USF couldn't recruit the talent needed at QB until now.  

The program was nonexistent less than 10 years ago.  There was no football facility, or decent weight room.  There were no conference ties to a BCS bid.  There was no history or tradition at USF Football.  How can you expect USF to compete in major recruiting circles with these obstacles?

.

No offense Jake but these are nothing but excuses. We have the talent to win now. I thought JL redshirted some guys on defense last year just to gear up for this season. I'm not talking about tough losses to PSU or UM. I'm talking about a very beatable Pitt team. Ohio beat them!!

Excuses are nothing more than a reason to lose. I bet R Smith gives these same excuses when blaming these losses on a 20 yr old kid. "I can't run my beloved spread offense without the proper qb." No kidding. how about adapting to the talent you have and run out of a power formation with a top ten RB in the country. Way to logical. The coaches are who worries me not the players. They don't adapt to the players strengths.

It's not so much the loss that bothers me as how it is we lost. If I felt the coaches (who get paid very well to do what they do) had a proper gameplan in place and did their best to have our current players execute it and we still lost then I would feel like we gave it our best shot.

They have known for 3 years that PJs strength isn't to throw the ball 37 times a game and yet this is the best they come up with?

How about we use that RB who is a potential NFLer and run the heck out of the ball. He did average more yards per carry against Pitt then he did against UofL.

As for this being a rebuilding year, I bet the seniors would disagree. I'm sure they don't go out there thinking "oh well, it's only a rebuilding year". By the way all college teams can be considered young.

I understand that the recruits will eventually come but I believe you are selling our current players way short. We've had the same problems for the last 3 years concerning this stupid spread offense.

I'm not saying it won't work but it is obvious to me that we don't have the right personell. Are we supposed to stand around and use this as an excuse for losing or should we adapt an offense that utilizes our current players strengths? I think the later would put us in a much better position to succeed and win or lose that is all I am asking.

[Guest S.  Bien]

brilliant post bull94.

I hate to continue harping on WVU as an example exclusively, but people need to remember they were down 17-0 to a potent UL offense, and 24-7 going into the fourth quarter.

WVU has a good defense, and frankly QB's that in my mind are worse than Pat throwing the ball, further they run a spread.

Guess what WVU's play calling was like against UL, and this includes over-times, they threw it 27 times and ran it 55.  Their top running back Slanton ran it 34 times in the game, and 29 during regulation.

Guess what we did, and were down by less to Pitt.  We ran Andre Hall 17 times!!!!!!!!!!!!!  We threw it 37!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That speaks volumes to the coaching inability, or at least play calling.  Pat can throw a good pass, but he won't throw 37 of them.  Run, run, run, then mix it up with a few nicely timed pass plays when the pressure is off of Pat, and he can deliver- hey like we did against UL.

I'd hate to think that the only time this offense can execute that way is when we get up big like we did against UL.  It seems that way though because for the past 3 years in any tight game, or a game we fall behind our staff seems to panic.

[Jake_Ryan]

No offense Jake but these are nothing but excuses. We have the talent to win now. I thought JL redshirted some guys on defense last year just to gear up for this season. I'm not talking about tough losses to PSU or UM. I'm talking about a very beatable Pitt team. Ohio beat them!!

Excuses are nothing more than a reason to lose. I bet R Smith gives these same excuses when blaming these losses on a 20 yr old kid. "I can't run my beloved spread offense without the proper qb." No kidding. how about adapting to the talent you have and run out of a power formation with a top ten RB in the country. Way to logical. The coaches are who worries me not the players. They don't adapt to the players strengths.

It's not so much the loss that bothers me as how it is we lost. If I felt the coaches (who get paid very well to do what they do) had a proper gameplan in place and did their best to have our current players execute it and we still lost then I would feel like we gave it our best shot.

They have known for 3 years that PJs strength isn't to throw the ball 37 times a game and yet this is the best they come up with?

How about we use that RB who is a potential NFLer and run the heck out of the ball. He did average more yards per carry against Pitt then he did against UofL.

As for this being a rebuilding year, I bet the seniors would disagree. I'm sure they don't go out there thinking "oh well, it's only a rebuilding year". By the way all college teams can be considered young.

I understand that the recruits will eventually come but I believe you are selling our current players way short. We've had the same problems for the last 3 years concerning this stupid spread offense.

I'm not saying it won't work but it is obvious to me that we don't have the right personell. Are we supposed to stand around and use this as an excuse for losing or should we adapt an offense that utilizes our current players strengths? I think the later would put us in a much better position to succeed and win or lose that is all I am asking.

No offense taken.  But these are not excuses, they are facts.  USF missed out on numerous highly touted QB's in the past few years - this is well documented.  The talent is beginning to come - it is just very young.  And with youth comes inconsistency.  That is why you see the big win over UL and the the 'bad' loss to Pitt (which wasn't all that bad IMO).

I absolutely agree with what you say about adapting the offense to the talent.  I've been posting the same thing myself for years.  Get the QB under center and run play action!

And I did not say this was a rebuilding year.  It is a building year.  There is nothing to rebuild.  The talent is improving, as is the level of competition in the Big East.  It will take some time for the Freshmen to mature.  I'm encouraged by what I see from the team this year.  Before the season, 4-7 seemed a stretch.  Now, I'd be disappointed if they don't go 6-5 and make a bowl.  That is progress and will allow us to continue building towards the Big East Championship.  

[BULLheaded]

No offense taken.  But these are not excuses, they are facts.  USF missed out on numerous highly touted QB's in the past few years - this is well documented.  The talent is beginning to come - it is just very young.  And with youth comes inconsistency.  That is why you see the big win over UL and the the 'bad' loss to Pitt (which wasn't all that bad IMO).

I absolutely agree with what you say about adapting the offense to the talent.  I've been posting the same thing myself for years.  Get the QB under center and run play action!

And I did not say this was a rebuilding year.  It is a building year.  There is nothing to rebuild.  The talent is improving, as is the level of competition in the Big East.  It will take some time for the Freshmen to mature.  I'm encouraged by what I see from the team this year.  Before the season, 4-7 seemed a stretch.  Now, I'd be disappointed if they don't go 6-5 and make a bowl.  That is progress and will allow us to continue building towards the Big East Championship.  

What do you mean it is a rebuilding year? LAST year was a rebuilding year...PJ is a junior, andre is a senior, green has been starting for 3 years and payton is on his second year starting. The main "rebuilding" was defense and they are playing great. Geesh, it is COLLEGE, players get 4 years only so every year is mostly a rebuilding year and we are as experienced on offense as most other teams are.

Good recruits or bad recruits what does it matter? If you can't coach them it matters not who you bring in.

[BullDoug]

How about this nightmare - PJ and a brand new OC and his new system?  If Smith is let go, Bulls havta give Hill, Grothe or Greg Gregory a BIG look.