It's time to go on the record .... (OT drivel from our Kanigit friends)

[puc86]

6 hours ago, Meeps said:

Since there is no precedent (big word for you, meaning - there is no prior example) you are guessing that P5 wins are necessary. However, as I've shown in an example - P5 OOC wins do not yield an NY6 bid. Period. This is a fact that you can't argue because this is specifically stipulated (another large word, I know) that the only path to the NY6 is being the highest ranked G5 Conference Champion. 

 

Your problem is that you think that since the bid winners had a P5 or two, that is some how relevant to your viewpoint. It's not. Does winning a game against a P5 help earn a higher ranking? Sure. Does it matter if the next closest G5 team isn't a conference champion? Not one iota. I've just soundly defeated your "OMG OMG OMG but p5 wins are the only thing that matter" flawed mindset, but I'm sure you'll end up replying with the same tired old argument while side stepping facts. Also, news flash genius - usf played in Conference USA. So no, it's not the worst conference. Furthermore, if you think the AAC is the worst, yet haven't even played for a division title much less a championship, what's that say about your program? No IPF, no OCS, a Tulsa level fan base, and no hardware of any kind. Yeah no, you guys aren't in any position to cast stones until you do something.

When USF was in C-USA it had teams in it that are now in the P5, namely Louisville and TCU. I would gladly trade back to C-USA as it was when we were in it and this is only odd to you because when you were in C-USA everyone of any value in the conference had already left, notice a pattern?

As for my marquee wins vs aac conference champions position it’s really simple and not quite controversial however you don’t seem to understand it and I’m not quite sure how to make it clearer to you. I do not value the AAC at all I therefore do not value an AAC championship at all (I do recognize it’s value as a means to an end that I do value, the NY6 game). I do value wins against P5 teams as do you since you also highly value the NY6 game (it’s valuable because of who you play). If you win the AAC but lose all of your P5 games the only thing you are guaranteed is an AAC trophy however if you win the P5 games and not the trophy you still get your marquee wins (which the opportunity to have is the only value to winning the AAC).

Winning the AAC doesn’t automatically get you into a NY6 game, there are several times where it has not and every single season winning a G5 conference means four teams will get nothing from there conference championship. You have done both and got to go to NY6 games and have even won a couple, so this in no way diminishes the achievements of your team. Why does it bother you that the order I value the things we are discussing in NY6, P5 games, aac championship while you value them NY6, AAC championship, P5 games?

[Triple B]

10 hours ago, puc86 said:

I realize this is confusing to you because this is the best conference you have ever been in so it seems like a big deal to you unfortunately for us this is by far the worst conference we have ever been in and sadly not as exciting for us.

This is it in a nutshell. Add to that, their "big" name ooc wins (I think my stance on post season exhibition game wins precede me) were against Bama back when leather helmets were worn, Penn State ... am I missing some? ... and you can understand their feelings on the lower level conference championships.

Having said all that, though, as I've opined before, as far as our fanbase is concerned, I wish that had been the path we'd taken for a more organic growth pattern for the program.

[puc86]

3 minutes ago, Triple B said:

This is it in a nutshell. Add to that, their "big" name ooc wins (I think my stance on post season exhibition game wins precede me) were against Bama back when leather helmets were worn, Penn State ... am I missing some? ... and you can understand their feelings on the lower level conference championships.

Having said all that, though, as I've opined before, as far as our fanbase is concerned, I wish that had been the path we'd taken for a more organic growth pattern for the program.

While they are my fondest of memories and I do not think I would given them up for anything, I kind of understand this position a bit more now. Ignorance is truely bliss and had we taken the UCF path I would probably be perfectly happy in the AAC as I recognize they are and should be.

[Triple B]

8 minutes ago, puc86 said:

While they are my fondest of memories and I do not think I would given them up for anything,

And I'm sure that's how our Kanigit friends feel about their 2 big post season exhibition wins but, to me, it's a lot more satisfying to go onto a vaunted school's campus and take their lunch money ...

[Meeps]

4 hours ago, puc86 said:

When USF was in C-USA it had teams in it that are now in the P5, namely Louisville and TCU. I would gladly trade back to C-USA as it was when we were in it and this is only odd to you because when you were in C-USA everyone of any value in the conference had already left, notice a pattern?

As for my marquee wins vs aac conference champions position it’s really simple and not quite controversial however you don’t seem to understand it and I’m not quite sure how to make it clearer to you. I do not value the AAC at all I therefore do not value an AAC championship at all (I do recognize it’s value as a means to an end that I do value, the NY6 game). I do value wins against P5 teams as do you since you also highly value the NY6 game (it’s valuable because of who you play). If you win the AAC but lose all of your P5 games the only thing you are guaranteed is an AAC trophy however if you win the P5 games and not the trophy you still get your marquee wins (which the opportunity to have is the only value to winning the AAC).

Winning the AAC doesn’t automatically get you into a NY6 game, there are several times where it has not and every single season winning a G5 conference means four teams will get nothing from there conference championship. You have done both and got to go to NY6 games and have even won a couple, so this in no way diminishes the achievements of your team. Why does it bother you that the order I value the things we are discussing in NY6, P5 games, aac championship while you value them NY6, AAC championship, P5 games?

You think TCU and Louiseville are Marquee teams? They are both new to P5 and historically haven't accomplished anything. But I guess that is something you guys are used to seeing as a virtue as long as your Marquee wins are in play. Teams don't leave because UCF joins, they leave because every team wants to maximize their potential and UCF wasn't handed a silver spoon like usf. 

It doesn't bother me the order you value certain things. Most UCF fans would love more than anything to watch you guys justify why an OCS is a bad investment, AAC Championships are pointless and attendance isn't important. That way when the chairs start moving in 2024, the powers that be will know usf squandered their opportunity and made zero effort to rise up. That leaves UCF in a prime position. I just find it laughable how most of your fan base has such backwards entitlement and think the AAC is beneath you when you can't even win it.

[puc86]

4 minutes ago, Meeps said:

You think TCU and Louiseville are Marquee teams? They are both new to P5 and historically haven't accomplished anything. But I guess that is something you guys are used to seeing as a virtue as long as your Marquee wins are in play. Teams don't leave because UCF joins, they leave because every team wants to maximize their potential and UCF wasn't handed a silver spoon like usf. 

It doesn't bother me the order you value certain things. Most UCF fans would love more than anything to watch you guys justify why an OCS is a bad investment, AAC Championships are pointless and attendance isn't important. That way when the chairs start moving in 2024, the powers that be will know usf squandered their opportunity and made zero effort to rise up. That leaves UCF in a prime position. I just find it laughable how most of your fan base has such backwards entitlement and think the AAC is beneath you when you can't even win it.

TCU and Louisville both got selected by P5 conferences by those that do the selecting so clearly I am not the only one that thinks they are more marquee than anyone left in the G5, those that cut the checks agree with me completely. If you guys get selected and we do not I will begrudgingly accept that your path was clearly the better one but as it currently stands we are both in the exact same place and the total number of AAC conference football championships sum to the exact amount that we have. You guys have an OCS because you had to not because of any foresight, the Citrus Bowl was in disrepair and needed to be refurbished and they specifically told you the value of your team and its fans was zero dollars (the number seems a bit high to me). Boise State was in the exact position you currently find yourselves but for some reason they were passed over, almost as if money you can make for the conference and academic fit are the only requirements and not how many championships you can win in a crappy conference or if you are forced to build a stadium from Popsicle sticks that would not support crowds for actual big league football. The only way to actually win the AAC is to get the **** out of it and currently we are tied at zero on that front. 

  

[JTrue]

2 minutes ago, SquareKnight said:

USF Fans and UCONN fans are exactly alike. They think the AAC is killing their programs, when in reality they have shown little ability to compete in the AAC or make any contribution to the conference to make it better.

Ah well... we've all got our problems. The AAC is killing our football team and your football team is killing your players. 

[Meeps]

22 hours ago, puc86 said:

TCU and Louisville both got selected by P5 conferences by those that do the selecting so clearly I am not the only one that thinks they are more marquee than anyone left in the G5, those that cut the checks agree with me completely. If you guys get selected and we do not I will begrudgingly accept that your path was clearly the better one but as it currently stands we are both in the exact same place and the total number of AAC conference football championships sum to the exact amount that we have. You guys have an OCS because you had to not because of any foresight, the Citrus Bowl was in disrepair and needed to be refurbished and they specifically told you the value of your team and its fans was zero dollars (the number seems a bit high to me). Boise State was in the exact position you currently find yourselves but for some reason they were passed over, almost as if money you can make for the conference and academic fit are the only requirements and not how many championships you can win in a crappy conference or if you are forced to build a stadium from Popsicle sticks that would not support crowds for actual big league football. The only way to actually win the AAC is to get the **** out of it and currently we are tied at zero on that front. 

  

TCU was a panic add, and Louisville has been a doormat since joining the ACC. Just because they were added to a P5 conference doesn't make them marquee. See Rutgers as a perfect example. There are a myriad of p5 teams that simply are P5 in name, but not in program. Kansas, Georgia Tech, Vanderbilt, Kentucky...the list goes on. Those are all examples of teams that when you beat them in football, there is little to zero buzz. A classic example is last year when you all beat GT, how much do you think ESPN praised you all and kept you in the news as the team to beat? Pretty much no one thought it was relevant because your team hasn't had a history of doing anything and neither has GT.

The OCS was absolutely built from foresight. We built both the OCS and Bball arena at the same time on a CUSA budget. George O'Leary was instrumental in pushing for it since he was at previous programs that had them and knew that was how a proper foundation is built. If you look at all the Division I programs that do not have their own stadiums, you'll notice a large fluctuation in attendance based on team performance. Those with OCS have a much better chance to build a core fan base that will support the program (within reason) you guys can talk all you want about our stadium and 2015, but if you look at our average attendance for the last two decades, you'll notice 2015 was an outlier. The citrus bowl going under renovation didnt cause UCF's coffers to some how expand for a 50+ million dollar stadium and a $40m+. This was planned in advanced and took a considerable amount of planning in order to get both structures financed. The citrus bowl was just a launching pad to move forward. And say what you will about the stadium, if you attended the 2017 USF vs UCF game - that environment was a true testament of what a college football atmosphere is all about. You all can joke about it's design, that doesn't in anyway detract the atmosphere. And unless you've been to the stadium when UCF and the opponent competitive, you guys can't really judge anything about the stadium. 

 

Boise hasn't been picked up because their media market is non-existent. If USF had Boise's resume, you guys would have been picked up before Louisville and TCU. An invite to a P5 isnt just about one thing. It's a combination of Market, Academics, dedication to sports, performance and viewership. Boise lacks both Academics and Market so it's irrelevant if they won the National Championship several times over, ESPN isn't going to make a return on their investment.

[puc86]

1 hour ago, Meeps said:

TCU was a panic add, and Louisville has been a doormat since joining the ACC. Just because they were added to a P5 conference doesn't make them marquee. See Rutgers as a perfect example. There are a myriad of p5 teams that simply are P5 in name, but not in program. Kansas, Georgia Tech, Vanderbilt, Kentucky...the list goes on. Those are all examples of teams that when you beat them in football, there is little to zero buzz. A classic example is last year when you all beat GT, how much do you think ESPN praised you all and kept you in the news as the team to beat? Pretty much no one thought it was relevant because your team hasn't had a history of doing anything and neither has GT.

The OCS was absolutely built from foresight. We built both the OCS and Bball arena at the same time on a CUSA budget. George O'Leary was instrumental in pushing for it since he was at previous programs that had them and knew that was how a proper foundation is built. If you look at all the Division I programs that do not have their own stadiums, you'll notice a large fluctuation in attendance based on team performance. Those with OCS have a much better chance to build a core fan base that will support the program (within reason) you guys can talk all you want about our stadium and 2015, but if you look at our average attendance for the last two decades, you'll notice 2015 was an outlier. The citrus bowl going under renovation didnt cause UCF's coffers to some how expand for a 50+ million dollar stadium and a $40m+. This was planned in advanced and took a considerable amount of planning in order to get both structures financed. The citrus bowl was just a launching pad to move forward. And say what you will about the stadium, if you attended the 2017 USF vs UCF game - that environment was a true testament of what a college football atmosphere is all about. You all can joke about it's design, that doesn't in anyway detract the atmosphere. And unless you've been to the stadium when UCF and the opponent competitive, you guys can't really judge anything about the stadium. 

 

Boise hasn't been picked up because their media market is non-existent. If USF had Boise's resume, you guys would have been picked up before Louisville and TCU. An invite to a P5 isnt just about one thing. It's a combination of Market, Academics, dedication to sports, performance and viewership. Boise lacks both Academics and Market so it's irrelevant if they won the National Championship several times over, ESPN isn't going to make a return on their investment.

So when your athletic director said, "When Steve was talking about a share of revenues on the new video board, he was told the value of UCF's fans was nothing — zero. That didn't sit too well with us and got us looking in other directions.” That's not what he meant? You can try to use revisionist history all you would like but had the Citrus Bowl not needed renovation and valued UCF at all you would still be playing there, do not take my word for it take the word of the people that made the decision. 

[Meeps]

8 hours ago, puc86 said:

So when your athletic director said, "When Steve was talking about a share of revenues on the new video board, he was told the value of UCF's fans was nothing — zero. That didn't sit too well with us and got us looking in other directions.” That's not what he meant? You can try to use revisionist history all you would like but had the Citrus Bowl not needed renovation and valued UCF at all you would still be playing there, do not take my word for it take the word of the people that made the decision. 

That is just one piece of the puzzle. It was a culmination of everything. Citrus Sports basically thought little to nothing of UCF despite us being a tenant "There was a take-UCF-for-granted attitude" John Hitt. George O'Leary hated playing at the Citrus Bowl because A. It had too many seats to support a CUSA team B. It was a dump and C. "Every game was like an away game". I admit, we were fortunate that we had a huge booster that did his own research and found a solution to get a stadium we could afford (pre-engineered stadium). But the main thing is, we knew an OCS no matter how "cheap" would reap many benefits. George O'Leary was a huge proponent that an OCS was needed, just like Charlie Strong has voiced the same. Look at how the program exploded since opening in 2007. 

In fact, there are so many parallels between us building a stadium and the situation you guys are in right now. The Glazer's don't think anything of usf, the stadium is way too big for your fan base in the AAC, it's not an on campus so technically it's an away game and there is little to no financial advantage playing there. The difference is, we found a way to build the stadium and several renovations have been done to it since to maximize revenue with Loge seating, Cabana Club with premum food/alcohol, and field level suites that go for 25k per suite. So much so that, "UCF makes a ton of money on its home games — between $3 and $4 million and rising as the Knights continue to find creative ways to add premium seating to Spectrum Stadium — while USF doesn’t make much money at all on a typical home game."

Michael Kelly would rather stand pat: "Its feasible (now) if we're willing to settle for a lesser product," said new USF Athletic Director Michael Kelly upon reviewing the report. "But the feedback says if we're going to do it, we do it right...go big or go home.

Instead, the study suggested the Bulls remain at Raymond James Stadium until they had additional revenues to fund a state-of-the-art, 35,000-seat stadium with multiple premium-seating options, akin to Colorado State's $240 million football stadium"

You guys are at a crossroad, instead of seeing us as the model to follow by building a stadium you can afford - which will help cultivate team pride,  build a fan base, and in time, create revenue; you guys "want" (do nothing) a lavish Colorado State with only 35,000 seats. This is akin to sitting back and holding your hand out, except this time - there aren't anymore silver spoons. 

You all laugh at our "erector stadium" while you barely break even at Ray Jay - meanwhile, we are laughing all the way to the bank. You are going to see all these away games vs P5 that all scheduled 2:1 is eventually going to catch up to your athletic budget and that's going to cost you guys any coaches worth their salt since you won't be able to afford to keep them. It's not a sustainable model. Even if you over inflate the ticket prices for games like UF and Bama coming to Ray Jay, UCF's cheaper stadium is sling shotting us past by GENERATING 20+ million each year. As time goes by, the gap is just going to get wider and wider.