Would The Jim Drop in on the Spring Game?

[puc86]

2 minutes ago, CousinRicky said:

I'm not sure if you've answered my question or not.  

My answer is "no" I would not simply accept a statement of "we thought we would win a conference championship, oops we were wrong".

[BullyPulpit]

2 hours ago, CousinRicky said:

I'm just curious, would any of you complaining about how CJL got fired feel any better about it if the stated reason for him getting fired was that he didn't win any conference championships?

Personally I liked him but I'm over it.  Reading many of these posts it seems that some of you are pissed at the way he we fired.  So just wondering if they out and out told him you aren't winning titles so you're gone would you feel better about him being shown the door?

Your question goes to the heart of the matter. If the University decided to part ways with him because of on-field performance, that would be perfectly acceptable. They would have owed him the money remaining on his contract, and he would have been free to accept another job elsewhere. He would have almost undoubtedly landed a high-level DC gig or a mid-level P5 head coaching gig immediately, or, at the worst, within a year. He wouldn't have been forced to go to the NFL where his passion for the game and for student athletes was wasted on professional players.  However, the way it was handled, they forever tarnished his name and reputation, and sullied everything that he built at the University. They ultimately ended up paying him the bulk of what he would have been owed, and placed out football program into a downward spiral. 

It is like asking if you would feel the same about your dad if he was unhappy in his marriage and went through an amicable divorce with your mother or if he went out, cheated, blew the family's savings on frivolous things, and then divorced your mother and said that he never wanted to see you again. 

Edited April 17, 2019 by BullyPulpit

[NewEnglandBull]

34 minutes ago, puc86 said:

Skippy couldn't beat the coach he replaced so everyone probably should have been able to see how that was going to go. As long as we keep firing all of our coaches consistently for not winning BCS conferences in the first decade of creating a program I guess I would be okay with it, but since that isn't possible I will still continue to think the decision was insanely short sighted hubris based solely on the unreasonable expectations CJL's amazing success created. We killed the golden goose and its not enough to simply say "we did it to then throw our program into an unstable death spiral we have yet to recover from",  it needs to also have a follow up of "we could not have been more wrong, I apologize for the pain and harm I inflicted, I would like to reach out to CJL and see how we make amends and it is for this reason I am firing everyone involved in this idiocy as well as offering my resignation effective immediately (also I have built a time machine so I can go back a decade and do this when it mattered more)".

Please please explain how CJL was “the golden goose”....

[puc86]

Just now, NewEnglandBull said:

Please please explain how CJL was “the golden goose”....

He had the most meteoric rise of a program in modern college football history, it’s not a matter of debate what he did here in short order was nothing short of a miracle. To deny the amazingness of the success requires not only to ignore every single aspect of our program’s history but also all of college football.

[BullyPulpit]

5 minutes ago, NewEnglandBull said:

Please please explain how CJL was “the golden goose”....

I will take a stab at it. He took a program from literally nothing and turned it into a program with national prominence in a decade. If it were so easy to do, even in a talent-rich area like Florida, why have FAU and FIU languished? He was a very large part of the reason we were able to get into the Big East, because he was able to field a competitive team from day one. He was able to get players, boosters, and fans to buy into a new program. He absolutely loved this job, the school, and Tampa. No one at the University bled green and gold (and occasionally actual blood) like CJL. He didn't have green eyes and wasn't looking to use USF as a stepping stone or an opportunity to rebuild his name. He was the perfect fit for this program. 

Edited April 17, 2019 by BullyPulpit

[NewEnglandBull]

54 minutes ago, puc86 said:

He had the most meteoric rise of a program in modern college football history, it’s not a matter of debate what he did here in short order was nothing short of a miracle. To deny the amazingness of the success requires not only to ignore every single aspect of our program’s history but also all of college football.

Hummm...I don’t doubt what he did in getting us on the map but my bench mark for “golden goose” would have to include championships.  Sorry can’t get a woody over the guy. In reality we lost our “golden goose” when we got demoted to div2.  

Edited April 17, 2019 by NewEnglandBull

[NewEnglandBull]

54 minutes ago, BullyPulpit said:

I will take a stab at it. He took a program from literally nothing and turned it into a program with national prominence in a decade. If it were so easy to do, even in a talent-rich area like Florida, why have FAU and FIU languished? He was a very large part of the reason we were able to get into the Big East, because he was able to field a competitive team from day one. He was able to get players, boosters, and fans to buy into a new program. He absolutely loved this job, the school, and Tampa. No one at the University bled green and gold (and occasionally actual blood) like CJL. He didn't have green eyes and wasn't looking to use USF as a stepping stone or an opportunity to rebuild his name. He was the perfect fit for this program. 

So even with all of that you would still be satisfied? I call BS on this. We all want championships...NOTHING AND I MEAN NOTHING ELSE MATTERS. Started the program and put us on the map? Thank you, well done! Now go win me some trophies. We are in a results driven world. Even if Jimmy had survived what happened to him, the clock was still ticking on him to deliver...he was not a Bear Bryant and getting a free pass and I see little to no evidence that he was going to take us to a championship. 

Edited April 17, 2019 by NewEnglandBull

[BullyPulpit]

5 minutes ago, NewEnglandBull said:

So even with all of that you would still be satisfied? I call BS on this. We all want championships...NOTHING AND I MEAN NOTHING ELSE MATTERS. Started the program and put us on the map? Thank you, well done! Now go win me some trophies. We are in a results driven world. Even if Jimmy had survived what happened to him the clock was still ticking on him to deliver...he was not a Bear Bryant and getting a free pass. 

No one said that he should get a free pass, but lets really breakdown this "no championships" argument. 1997 to 2002 we were independent, so there weren't any opportunities for Conference Championships. However, I would argue that 2002 WOULD have been a C-USA title if they had let us into the conference, as was originally the plan. 9-2 with the only 2 losses coming at Arkansas and at #2 Oklahoma (in a competitive game - if only that forward pass hadn't been deemed illegal). 2003 was a solid first official season in C-USA. 2004 was a rebuilding year and a year where they redshirted a lot of players in anticipation of the HUGE step up from C-USA to Big East play. 

2005 was the first year in the Big East and we weren't going to be competing with West Virginia that season, but to finish tied for 3rd in our first year in Big East play was impressive. 2006 the Big East was stacked. Louisville, Rutgers, and WVU were all top 12 teams in the nation. We held our own, beating WVU, but we didn't quite have the horses yet to run with the big boys. 2007 should have been THE season. We were straight-up robbed at Rutgers, and the hangover carried into the next few weeks. We forget though that team bounced back and won their last 3 impressively before the Sun Bowl implosion. 2008 turned out to be a major disappointment overall. 2009, we lost Grothe for his senior season and did the best we could with a young BJ Daniels. Those things happen. 

There were 2 seasons where CJL could have won a Conference Championship and they were stolen from him, 2002 and 2007. 2009 could have been a magical season, but the senior starting QB went down. Overall, he had a total of only 7 chances to win a Conference Championship. One was stolen by the refs, one was stolen by injury, and two of those years they were transitioning into a new conference. 

Do you honestly think that CJL wouldn't have us winning division/conference titles if he was in his 22nd year as our head coach in the current conference in which we play? 

[chapelbull]

13 minutes ago, BullyPulpit said:

 

Do you honestly think that CJL wouldn't have us winning division/conference titles if he was in his 22nd year as our head coach in the current conference in which we play? 

Well, as @puc86 has so elegantly explained time and again, we would not be in this crap conference if The JIm was still here .... so maybe we would be still looking for our first division/conference title, but in a P5 conference.

[BullyPulpit]

4 minutes ago, chapelbull said:

Well, as @puc86 has so elegantly explained time and again, we would not be in this crap conference if The JIm was still here .... so maybe we would be still looking for our first division/conference title, but in a P5 conference.

That's a bridge too far for me. I don't know how conference realignment would have been effected by CJL being here. Maybe we make it to the BCS Championship with him at the helm in 2010 and history changes, but there is no way to know for sure.