Remember that time...

[usf97]

 

[MikeG]

1 hour ago, TRUTH D. Antagonist said:

I feel u, Mike.

i don't think there's a USF fan out there that hasn't felt the pangs of helplessness as we've watched our program go from overachieving upstart ranked #2 controlling its own destiny to underachieving mid-tier G5 schedule filler for P5 teams looking for an early season "easy but kinda respectable" OOC win.

& I know it's easy to look at the bogus firing of CJL as the catalyst-- whether literal or superstitious-- that set the downfall of USF in motion. I know it's easier to blame Judy, Woolard, the donors & fans that sat on their hands & idly let it happen then abandoned the program at its lowest point... but the reality is that USF is where it is because ESPN & former member schools that had a ticket out of dodge already punched (Pitt, Cuse, UL, RU, etc.) conspired to eliminate the Big East as a "power" football conference by crippling its profit potential with a **** TV deal. that & the internal fissures between FBS football schools & basketball schools, Catholic vs. non-Catholic schools, etc. caused the Big East conference to fall apart & with it USF's chance at playing meaningful football.

but none of us could have done anything about that. the UNIVERSITY couldn't have done anything about that.

could we have been in better position to compete in the AAC once conference readjustment happened had CJL never been fired? most likely. the continuity alone would have probably avoided the 2 & 3 loss seasons. but there is nothing in CJL's resume to suggest he would have led the team to anything more than 9-win seasons. we've had TWO double-figure win seasons in three years since we hit rock bottom. 

USF & its fans should absolutely not act like we're still a BCS school. but not being in a "Power" conference doesn't make USF football meaningless or worthy of demotion to FCS. by the standards of some fans, only 4 teams play meaningful football every year & it's usually the same effing teams every year!

we're talking about deep-sixing USF football over the lost POTENTIAL to compete for a spot in the CFP or a Nat'l Championship when we can't even win our conference, regardless of which one it is or what level it's at, & even in the Big East we still never would have gotten a BCS nod over even a 1 or 2 loss SEC, BIG10 or ACC school... so what are we really crucifying ourselves over?

there is plenty for USF to play for. plenty of meaningful football. playing football in & of itself is meaningful for the sake of the athletes & the university experience.

i'm not saying there aren't problems with USF football or that CCS has given me reason to be psyched about the immediate future of the program, but what have we done to act like 7-win seasons are beneath us??

for nearly 20 years USF had the benefit of being in the right place at the right time. now we have to work to get back what we didn't really work too hard to get in the first place. we can Criticize coaching all we want but I'm not ready to give up on the program after one 7-6 season.

 

Let me restate again that I have never claimed that Leavitt not still our coach is in any way going to change what happened. Forces out of our control put us in this position. Firing CJL was not the catalyst and I didn't say that either. I do blame the admin and others for letting what happened to CJL and as you said-- winning 7 games is not a terrible thing, something CJL accomplished or exceeded in all but 2 seasons. Regardless-- let's just drop all the talk about Leavitt as it pertains to our current situation.

You seemed to restate several of my points but missed the main problems about losing out when the Big East died. We lost the BCS money that we had grown accustomed to getting. And sure-- the P5 money is even better-- which makes it worse since now those teams are getting even more distance from us  on all fronts. Yet it seems like the changes to our revenues were not met with a similar budgetary constraint. The program is not following the original mantra -- build quickly but operate without going in the red. CCS contract -- that is the issue here. The amount we are paying him is beyond our means-- and so are the costs of the assistants. We need to reel it in and be more realistic. Raise the funds through donors like we did in the beginning. Stop acting like we are a P5 with a P5 bank account.

If that means we take it down a notch-- so be it. But we should look into pay day games again. Find a coach who will work for less money and the chance to show other programs what they can do. Why not? We are a stepping stone for careers these days. Let's embrace that.

and now for a tangent I never thought I would write....

If we looked at the amount of money we used to pay for say one or two years of renting RJS for games-- maybe we could start raising funds and planning to take an existing facility-- the soccer stadium even -- and build on it with plans to make it our home stadium once the current RJS lease ends. If we have a huge opponent like UF or FSU-- we can always make arrangements with RJS to use it for those games where the tickets sold will make us the money to pay that premium. Even if it is not the soccer stadium-- something on campus built over that longer time frame -- and if it looks like the bounce house, so be it. Make it the size of our current fan base but expandable over time. Add additional structure as we go along. If you ever saw the pictures of Ben Hill Griffin stadium as it progressively grew larger over time-- added on piece meal-- that is what I am thinking might work from a financial viewpoint.

I know I've always said it was silly to worry about the whole OCS thing when we have an NFL stadium to rent for those few games we need it. But if we are going to commit to having football, it might be time to get our plans in order to take the plunge. It doesn't hurt that RJS will be about 25 years old by that time. I am not saying building the OCS helps us win or anything like that. If they focus on making the facility cost efficient and focus on it being low maintenance and expandable-- that would be ideal. Finding a way to make it a multi-use - with an eye towards hosting other outdoor events also would justify the cost. I think the Sun Dome (Yuengling Center) was built in a similar fashion

oh no-- I've been ranting about us building an OCS. That's it-- I'm truly broken.

/rant

 

[MikeG]

50 minutes ago, usf97 said:

I think of Puc more like George Lazenby. 

I don't think I ever saw that Bond movie

[NewEnglandBull]

28 minutes ago, MikeG said:

I don't think I ever saw that Bond movie

I believe it was a made for British TV. 

[Triple B]

2 minutes ago, NewEnglandBull said:

I believe it was a made for British TV. 

I think it went straight to cable ............ before there was cable.

[CousinRicky]

9 hours ago, TRUTH D. Antagonist said:

I feel u, Mike.

i don't think there's a USF fan out there that hasn't felt the pangs of helplessness as we've watched our program go from overachieving upstart ranked #2 controlling its own destiny to underachieving mid-tier G5 schedule filler for P5 teams looking for an early season "easy but kinda respectable" OOC win.

& I know it's easy to look at the bogus firing of CJL as the catalyst-- whether literal or superstitious-- that set the downfall of USF in motion. I know it's easier to blame Judy, Woolard, the donors & fans that sat on their hands & idly let it happen then abandoned the program at its lowest point... but the reality is that USF is where it is because ESPN & former member schools that had a ticket out of dodge already punched (Pitt, Cuse, UL, RU, etc.) conspired to eliminate the Big East as a "power" football conference by crippling its profit potential with a **** TV deal. that & the internal fissures between FBS football schools & basketball schools, Catholic vs. non-Catholic schools, etc. caused the Big East conference to fall apart & with it USF's chance at playing meaningful football.

but none of us could have done anything about that. the UNIVERSITY couldn't have done anything about that.

could we have been in better position to compete in the AAC once conference readjustment happened had CJL never been fired? most likely. the continuity alone would have probably avoided the 2 & 3 loss seasons. but there is nothing in CJL's resume to suggest he would have led the team to anything more than 9-win seasons. we've had TWO double-figure win seasons in three years since we hit rock bottom. 

USF & its fans should absolutely not act like we're still a BCS school. but not being in a "Power" conference doesn't make USF football meaningless or worthy of demotion to FCS. by the standards of some fans, only 4 teams play meaningful football every year & it's usually the same effing teams every year!

we're talking about deep-sixing USF football over the lost POTENTIAL to compete for a spot in the CFP or a Nat'l Championship when we can't even win our conference, regardless of which one it is or what level it's at, & even in the Big East we still never would have gotten a BCS nod over even a 1 or 2 loss SEC, BIG10 or ACC school... so what are we really crucifying ourselves over?

there is plenty for USF to play for. plenty of meaningful football. playing football in & of itself is meaningful for the sake of the athletes & the university experience.

i'm not saying there aren't problems with USF football or that CCS has given me reason to be psyched about the immediate future of the program, but what have we done to act like 7-win seasons are beneath us??

for nearly 20 years USF had the benefit of being in the right place at the right time. now we have to work to get back what we didn't really work too hard to get in the first place. we can Criticize coaching all we want but I'm not ready to give up on the program after one 7-6 season.

 

This kind of reasonable thought has no place on the pen.  But I give it a big 

[CousinRicky]

8 hours ago, MikeG said:

Let me restate again that I have never claimed that Leavitt not still our coach is in any way going to change what happened. Forces out of our control put us in this position. Firing CJL was not the catalyst and I didn't say that either. I do blame the admin and others for letting what happened to CJL and as you said-- winning 7 games is not a terrible thing, something CJL accomplished or exceeded in all but 2 seasons. Regardless-- let's just drop all the talk about Leavitt as it pertains to our current situation.

You seemed to restate several of my points but missed the main problems about losing out when the Big East died. We lost the BCS money that we had grown accustomed to getting. And sure-- the P5 money is even better-- which makes it worse since now those teams are getting even more distance from us  on all fronts. Yet it seems like the changes to our revenues were not met with a similar budgetary constraint. The program is not following the original mantra -- build quickly but operate without going in the red. CCS contract -- that is the issue here. The amount we are paying him is beyond our means-- and so are the costs of the assistants. We need to reel it in and be more realistic. Raise the funds through donors like we did in the beginning. Stop acting like we are a P5 with a P5 bank account.

If that means we take it down a notch-- so be it. But we should look into pay day games again. Find a coach who will work for less money and the chance to show other programs what they can do. Why not? We are a stepping stone for careers these days. Let's embrace that.

and now for a tangent I never thought I would write....

 

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If we looked at the amount of money we used to pay for say one or two years of renting RJS for games-- maybe we could start raising funds and planning to take an existing facility-- the soccer stadium even -- and build on it with plans to make it our home stadium once the current RJS lease ends. If we have a huge opponent like UF or FSU-- we can always make arrangements with RJS to use it for those games where the tickets sold will make us the money to pay that premium. Even if it is not the soccer stadium-- something on campus built over that longer time frame -- and if it looks like the bounce house, so be it. Make it the size of our current fan base but expandable over time. Add additional structure as we go along. If you ever saw the pictures of Ben Hill Griffin stadium as it progressively grew larger over time-- added on piece meal-- that is what I am thinking might work from a financial viewpoint.

I know I've always said it was silly to worry about the whole OCS thing when we have an NFL stadium to rent for those few games we need it. But if we are going to commit to having football, it might be time to get our plans in order to take the plunge. It doesn't hurt that RJS will be about 25 years old by that time. I am not saying building the OCS helps us win or anything like that. If they focus on making the facility cost efficient and focus on it being low maintenance and expandable-- that would be ideal. Finding a way to make it a multi-use - with an eye towards hosting other outdoor events also would justify the cost. I think the Sun Dome (Yuengling Center) was built in a similar fashion

oh no-- I've been ranting about us building an OCS. That's it-- I'm truly broken.

/rant

 

 

 

We didn't lose the P5 though until a year ago.  I may be off a year.  But the BE buyout allowed us to continue to spend money that wasn't going to be there when that ended.  Should have tightened the purse strings when we saw that coming.

[Gatorbull325]

16 hours ago, TRUTH D. Antagonist said:

we lost him 10 years ago when CJL got fired.

im not a fan of CCS, but we are literally 1 season removed from back to back 10+ win seasons.

talk about eliminating the football program after one bad 7-6 season just isn't rational. It's emotional, emotions that have been building for a decade. 

firing CJL was bad, but what hurt USF football the most was losing BCS/"Power" status & nothing USF could have done would have stopped that train from leaving the station. firing CJL was a drop in the bucket compared to Pitt's betrayal & the ultimate collapse of Big East football.

CJL could still be the coach now & USF would still be right here in the AAC... & there is no guarantee CJL would have won conference championships in the AAC, unless there's something u guys are seeing from his 7-4 & 4-7 (11-11 overall) record in CUSA that I'm just not seeing.

the constant moping gets to a point where I'm not even sure some of these people even WANT USF to succeed... It's almost like wanting USF to remain in perpetual football purgatory for the sin of firing their beloved coach, "if CJL isn't winning here NO ONE should win here." 

it's the people that take years to get over a break-up. there are other fish in the sea but these people act like getting their feet wet is a betrayal of "the one that got away."

it gets old.

Thank you for this post and well put! 

[BullTiger]

I'm pretty sure that half way through the fourth quarter of that bowl game was win Clemson became Clemson, and it's where CSH became a dumpster fire....

[BDYZR]

On 1/8/2019 at 11:30 PM, MikeG said:

and now for a tangent I never thought I would write....

100% AGREE.

Picture building up and across the road to back up to the baseball left field. On game day simply close that section for a Fan Zone. Build the other side (visitors) to hold whatever number of fans needed(35,000?).

This creates a true sports complex on campus. Just a thought.