Joey tweets on USF OCS feasibility study (Off Topic)

[ECUshoein 74]

3 hours ago, DELdaBull said:

USF endowment $442M

Some other school $153M

That is pretty darn low for a school of their size.  Then again, they've been tapping it to create a lot of their infrastructure...that's what it's for I guess.

[ucfbs 0]

On 7/30/2018 at 5:11 PM, ArmyBull said:

You are right, its not a rant - we have ucf so far up our arses that we can't possibly see building something similar would be in our best interest.  It is actually upsetting that our desire to out do them with this stadium mess will be the same attitude that pushes us farther behind.  

I'm really confused on the anti-UCF, pro-FAU stadium attitude, when FAU modeled their entire stadium (and their greater, "athletic village") in '07+ discussions after UCF's own '05+ plans, including inviting the same contractors, and using the same "erector set" building materials.

It's total rhetoric that is at-odds with reality.

FAU also ended up paying $70M, instead of the planned $45-55M, for the 35K seat design, because they waited 3 years.  UCF timed everything perfectly, from the stadium to the greater athletic village and arena, and got their stadium for a steal at under $50M ... for 45K (now more 43K with the tiki bar).  Even if it only lasts 25-30 years, instead of the planned 40, nothing can really touch the sheer alumni base and revenue UCF has built in just a dozen years.

And that's the bigger thing here ... 

One of these days the USF leadership will realize that an active rivalry with UCF, along with both taking "sustainable" approaches to both expenditures and financing, as the rivalry grows, is only going to benefit USF as much as UCF.  This sleight-of-logic with trying to laud FAU's stadium and athletic village, while ignoring the fact that it's based on UCF's approach, is just making everyone's eyes roll.  Yes, Ray Jay is a great avenue ... but USF's attendance would easily double, going on-campus, just like UCF did ... and UCF fans called it the "Citrus Dump" for a reason (like Legions Field here in Birmingham for UAB).

USF fans need to use logic and be objective.

The only mistake UCF made with its stadium was not building enough club seats.  UCF should have built twice as many for around another $5-10M.  Other programs have learned from that oversight.  UCF itself keeps debating when they are going to drop the $10-25M to expand both the club seats and, should attendance remain, expand to at least 53-56K (10K+ on the east side), if not the original, planned 65K (might be more 60K if there is more club seats), with a full C 3rd deck, which will literally double the initial costs.

Now the long-term structural issues at UCF Spectrum are more up for debate.

Was its design (engineering), construction (builder) or improper maintenance (UCF)?  It's likely a multitude of factors (builder on materials, UCF on maintenance for those materials).  In any case, the stadium is sound until at least the mid-2030s, it just might not last as long as the 40 years planned.  Especially since UCF put in -- and had the money to put in -- the $8M or so to fix things in early 2017, instead of waiting for any lawsuits to settle.

Other 'erector sets' are also in the same boat, depending on many factors.  How much will it cost over time?  Will their issues have the same as UCF's?

Edited August 1 by ucfbs

[ucfbs 0]

1 hour ago, TheAccountant said:

Third, if USF builds an OCS they need to do it right. UCF built a piece of **** stadium and now is having to throw more money into it to repair the so called "bounce house" so that it is structurally sound. It is better to just put the money into it upfront and not have any issues with the stadium. 

Can we please drop the rhetoric?

FAU's stadium (and athletic village), right down to the materials, is modeled after UCF's.  Even FIU's, built earlier than UCF's, isn't that much different either.  UCF also has more seat backs and increased the width of the seats in premium areas too, which is why it (along with the tiki bar) dropped 2K off (to 43K).  But that's still 43K (formerly 45K), doubling what UCF used to have in the Citrus Bowl (who wanted UCF to pay $20-30M in renovations, and find somewhere else to play for 2 years), who didn't share anything with UCF, concessions-wise. 

I really don't see how people can keep lambasting UCF's stadium, and laud FAU's.  It's rhetoric, not reality.

UCF has already put in the $8M to make repairs to the stadium that will keep it sound into the mid-2030s (over a quarter century).  They had the money to do so.  It was supposed to last until the late 2040s.  There are lawsuits on whether it was design, build or maintenance.  It's likely a combination of maintenance (UCF) because the builder (not UCF) used materials that the engineers (not UCF) did not recommend in Florida or for that maintenance.

So stop subjectively bashing UCF's stadium ... anyone who has been there can see the atmosphere on-campus.  USF can have that too.

Again, anything that laud's FAU, but criticizes UCF, just makes eyes roll.  It means it's just anti-UCF, not reality.  It also has a lot to do with UCF's attendance, compared to FAU's too.  UCF is making great use of its stadium for revenue.  UCF's only mistake was not building enough club seats, and that is just lost revenue right there.  Other programs, including FAU, learned from that too.

An OCS would be a boon for USF.  Unfortunately it looks like USF, even worse than FAU, was late to this realization.  UCF got a 45K (now 43K) stadium for under $50M in 2007.  FAU ended up paying $70M (instead of sub-$50M) for only 35K, because they pushed it back to 2010.  Now it's going to cost $100M+ just to get an "UCF like stadium."

 

Edited August 1 by ucfbs

[ucfbs 0]

5 hours ago, DELdaBull said:

USF endowment $442M

Some other school $153M

None of that can be used for Athletics, at least in the case of the other school's privately owned, athletic association.

[ucfbs 0]

2 hours ago, ECUshoein said:

That is pretty darn low for a school of their size.  Then again, they've been tapping it to create a lot of their infrastructure...that's what it's for I guess.

A lot of it also has to do with the Research Park.  There is a great breakdown of how much UCF doesn't get because of the Central Florida Research Park that is operated completely separate.

UCFAA, Inc. (athletics association) is also completely separate from academia, and a private entity.  Only the Athletic Director gets a public salary, and that is only a small subset of his total compensation.  The rest comes from UCFAA, Inc.

This is how Gainesville runs theirs as well.  UCFAA, Inc. is modeled after Florida's.  Most thought UCF couldn't do it, but the boosters showed up, and UCF is <<50% athletic fees now.  Quite a change from prior.

USF can have all this too.  But USF has to stop spewing rhetoric and looks seriously at all of the models out there.  Many are following UCF's lead for a reason, especially once UCF built its stadium and athletics village, the first program to do such in many decades.

Again, unavoidable realities and the results are in the corresponding revenues.  USF certainly has the alumni base to grow into it, and 35K might not be enough just 10 years later.

Edited August 1 by ucfbs

[puc86 347]

16 minutes ago, ucfbs said:

I'm really confused on the anti-UCF, pro-FAU stadium attitude, when FAU modeled their entire stadium (and their greater, "athletic village") in '07+ discussions after UCF's own '05+ plans, including inviting the same contractors, and using the same "erector set" building materials.

It's total rhetoric that is at-odds with reality.

FAU also ended up paying $70M, instead of the planned $45-55M, for the 35K seat design, because they waited 3 years.  UCF timed everything perfectly, from the stadium to the greater athletic village and arena, and got their stadium for a steal at under $50M ... for 45K (now more 43K with the tiki bar).  Even if it only lasts 25-30 years, instead of the planned 40, nothing can really touch the sheer alumni base and revenue UCF has built in just a dozen years.

And that's the bigger thing here ... 

One of these days the USF leadership will realize that an active rivalry with UCF, along with both taking "sustainable" approaches to both expenditures and financing, as the rivalry grows, is only going to benefit USF as much as UCF.  This sleight-of-logic with trying to laud FAU's stadium and athletic village, while ignoring the fact that it's based on UCF's approach, is just making everyone's eyes roll.  Yes, Ray Jay is a great avenue ... but USF's attendance would easily double, going on-campus, just like UCF did ... and UCF fans called it the "Citrus Dump" for a reason (like Legions Field here in Birmingham for UAB).

USF fans need to use logic and be objective.

The only mistake UCF made with its stadium was not building enough club seats.  UCF should have built twice as many for around another $5-10M.  Other programs have learned from that oversight.  UCF itself keeps debating when they are going to drop the $10-25M to expand both the club seats and, should attendance remain, expand to at least 53-56K (10K+ on the east side), if not the original, planned 65K (might be more 60K if there is more club seats), with a full C 3rd deck, which will literally double the initial costs.

Now the long-term structural issues at UCF Spectrum are more up for debate.

Was its design (engineering), construction (builder) or improper maintenance (UCF)?  It's likely a multitude of factors (builder on materials, UCF on maintenance for those materials).  In any case, the stadium is sound until at least the mid-2030s, it just might not last as long as the 40 years planned.  Especially since UCF put in -- and had the money to put in -- the $8M or so to fix things in early 2017, instead of waiting for any lawsuits to settle.

Other 'erector sets' are also in the same boat, depending on many factors.  How much will it cost over time?  Will their issues have the same as UCF's?

Associating with UCF has never been good for USF. We get it, everytime you get closer to us it has made your life better however it has been the complete opposite for us. The last thing USF needs in life is a stronger association with UCF, it’s embarrassing that we are in a conference with you and sharing a trophy that says War in I-4 is a depth I never thought our program would sink to. Dead and on the side of the road at 0-4 is where CJL was smart enough to try to leave you and if it were up to me Orlando would sprout a mountain so your team could Marshal itself out of the football world.

[ucfbs 0]

On 7/30/2018 at 10:02 PM, hm101 said:

I've been in rayjay when it was packed, it was loud, we were winning, and the culture was unbeatable. 

How did this fanbase get to a point where a new sexy building was more important than that?

Revenue.

Losing $2.5M/year starts to add up, beyond just the attendance question.

The "Citrus Dump" (as UCF fans called it) was worse than Ray Jay.  So a long-term improvement of 2x in attendance was not a surprise (it was more like 3-4x immediate in 2007-2008).  So maybe it won't be double.

USF also didn't have to deal with UCF's immediate problem either.  Florida Citrus Sports (FCS) was going to kick UCF out for 2 years, and force them to find somewhere else to play, while they renovated, and the city of Orlando was even pressuring UCF to cover $20-30M of the renovation costs.  That was that, UCFAA, Inc. was founded, and the rest is history ... including the athletic village even FAU, among others, modeled after UCF's.

So will USF see as much benefit?  I don't know.  Long-term, obviously it will see a lot.

[ucfbs 0]

10 minutes ago, puc86 said:

Associating with UCF has never been good for USF. We get it, everytime you get closer to us it has made your life better however it has been the complete opposite for us. The last thing USF needs in life is a stronger association with UCF, it’s embarrassing that we are in a conference with you and sharing a trophy that says War in I-4 is a depth I never thought our program would sink to. Dead and on the side of the road at 0-4 is where CJL was smart enough to try to leave you and if it were up to me Orlando would sprout a mountain so your team could Marshal itself out of the football world.

^^^ This is the problem.

How many conferences or even divisional titles has USF won 'without' (or 'with' for that matter) UCF?  A program is most defined by how well it does in the conference it is associated with, and recruiting under that tag.

What has USF done on its own?

I get it, USF loved holding "we're in the Big East and you're not" over UCF.  But what did that do for USF other than a #2 ranking that barely lasted, and became the butt end of jokes in the years to come?

And now USF fans like yourself are 'taking credit' for UCF winning not 1, but 2 New Years Bowls.  Seriously?

Is this the same USF that Pitt's AD was complaining about on their way out?

Last time I checked, the UCF-USF TV ratings dominated when both UCF and USF were good.  Maybe that should 'factor into' evaluations?  Let that sink-in for a bit ... a good UCF and USF means more ratings than even FSU and UF, even 'on-par' with their past seasons where they were good too.

^^^ This is the problem, USF fans don't realize what is best for themselves.

But nah, let's just 'hate' everything about UCF, even when we look foolish.  Again, lauding FAU and blasting UCF is just part of the problem.  UCF has a bigger stadium with better facilities and far more revenue, and they are of the same design with FAU's.

USF fans need to get objective, or keep having financial issues.  And several, key USF fans, even several, core boosters, recognize this.  But it's this anti-UCF view that dominates that is just self-destructive that is going to continue tripping the program up.

Edited August 1 by ucfbs

[puc86 347]

12 minutes ago, ucfbs said:

^^^ This is the problem.

How many conferences or even divisional titles has USF won 'without' UCF?  A program is most defined by how well it does in the conference it is associated with, and recruiting under that tag.

What has USF done on its own?

I get it, USF loved holding "we're in the Big East and you're not" over UCF.  But what did that do for USF other than a #2 ranking that barely lasted, and became the butt end of jokes in the years to come?

And now USF fans like yourself are 'taking credit' for UCF winning not 1, but 2 New Years Bowls.  Seriously?

Is this the same USF that Pitt's AD was complaining about on their way out?

Prior to the collapse of the big east and our fall to the depths of the AAC USF was always moving up in conference before it ever made it thru a recruiting cycle. Every conference we have ever been in before this rubbish was better than this conference since our inception and every handful of years we were moving up to bigger and better times and facing stiffer competition that wasn’t moving up but had been established. I know this is super hard to comprehend because you have always been garbage and played in garbage conferences and this is the best you have ever had it in life but sadly for us it’s the worst. Couple the constant climb up the mountain at a rate never seen in college sports and then the horrible decision of canning CJL and replacing him with a CSH and I am not shocked we haven’t won a conference championship and now that we are in the AAC I would be embarrassed to even collect the trophy unless it was immediately tosssed into the trash where this joke of a conference belongs.

Edited August 1 by puc86

[ucfbs 0]

On 7/31/2018 at 1:57 PM, Azmodi said:

I believe the powers that be mean, they don't want a stadium that will be condemned within five years. They want a stadium that they we can all be proud of and enjoy for many years to come.

Please state how UCF's stadium is "going to be condemned in 5 years"?

At the start of 2017, had UCF not made $8M in improvements, it was likely UCF's stadium wouldn't last 25 years, from its planned 40 years.  Now the question is will it last 25-30 years?  Or will get get close to the original, 40 year design?

Let me say that again ... UCF could have forgone $8M in improvements, and it would still be safe for another 10.  But another 15 might have been a stretch.  But UCF had the money.  It did what needed to be done.

UCF is embroiled in a lawsuit over what caused it.  The claims are maintenance (UCF) v. builder (non-UCF) v. engineer (non-UCF).  So far it looks like the builder didn't follow the engineer's recommendations on materials (especially around the fasteners), and UCF has been maintaining it like had it been using the engineer materials.  Hence why UCF has a case, and it will likely lead to a settlement (monetary).

But understand FAU and others are in the same boat too.  It's the same design!  It's only designed to last 40 years, at most.

Please be objective in your criticisms of UCF.  Stop spewing rhetoric that only undermines the discussion for USF's own benefit.

 

Edited August 1 by ucfbs