UCF vs. USF - Better WR corps?

[FreaKnight]

It would help if you had our actual WR'ing crew.

Expected:

Garris

Peyton

Chambers

Hill

Edwards

Halliburton

Green

Do you need to list walk-ons?  If you're going to talk WR's I think it needs to be based on actual production, and potential.  If you use that then Walker, and Marshall are the only ones that bring major starting experience and production with Turner is there as well.

USF brings Peyton, Green, Chambers, and Garris.  All four were starters last year.

Now debate as you wish.

Thanks for clearing up the 2005 WR list.

USF 2005 returning WR/TE with 2004 production:

GP  Rec  Yds  Avg/Rec TD  Long Avg/Game

                     

PEYTON, Johnny  11   22  469  21.3   2   77  42.6

GREEN, S.J.         11   22  262  11.9   1   26    23.8

CHAMBERS, J.     11   14  197  14.1   2   38    17.9

GARRIS, J.B.        11    9  129  14.3   0   36    11.7

CARTER, Derek   1 1    1    1   1.0   0    1      0.1

UCF 2005 returning WR/TE with 2004 production:

GP  Rec  Yds  Avg/Rec TD  Long Avg/Game

JOHNSON, Darcy       11   30  244   8.1   0   32  22.2

TURNER, Brooks       11   16  126   7.9   0   18  11.5

WALKER, Mike *        11    9  191  21.2   1   70  17.4

MARSHALL, B.*         10    8   84  10.5   0   21   8.4

ELDEMIRE, A.         11    6   46   7.7   1   16   4.2

*Both played in the secondary for a large part of the 2004 season, but played WR previously.

The 2004 production indicates that USF returns superior numbers at the WR and with UCF bringing more production from the TE position.  USF's returners had a total of 66 catches @ slightly over 16 yds/catch vs. UCF's returners with 69 catches @ slightly over 10 yds/catch.

Based on 2004 production, USF extended the field better than UCF did.  

With Walker expected to play WR full time, the avg/catch would be expected to increase in 2005 for UCF's WR corp.

At the end of the day, I think that UCF's top 3 returnees Walker, Marshall and Turner bring more to the table physically than USF's top 3 returnees:  Chambers, Payton, and J.B Garris or S.J. Green.

[FreaKnight]

By the way, why are we having this discussion since all the knights have already determined their receivers are superior?

Bien, it's not that complicated, I simply offered my opinion on a football discussion message board, and was curious to see what other UCF fans and USF fans had to say.

[Guest S.  Bien]

Like I said, "Someone pass me Some Bean Dip." ;D

Opps, I also forgot to mention that we're getting Gtech transfer Pat Carter.  He's a small 6-3 200lbs, he ran track for Gtech, as well as being their primary KR, and PR.  He has 4.4 speed, maybe 4.3 depending how well that track speed transfers onto the football field.  He must be pretty fast if he's returning kicks for a Gtech team that already had plenty of speed.

But what does it matter the verdict has been rendered.   I just want to know when those Knight's are getting nominated for All-American teams. :

I don't like doing those faces but in this case they seem rather appropriate.

[FreaKnight]

Opps, I also forgot to mention that we're getting Gtech transfer Pat Carter.  He's a small 6-3 200lbs, he ran track for Gtech, as well as being their primary KR, and PR.  He has 4.4 speed, maybe 4.3 depending how well that track speed transfers onto the football field.  He must be pretty fast if he's returning kicks for a Gtech team that already had plenty of speed.

I think Pat Carter will be a great WR in 2006 when he can actually play.  Plus, as you have also said many times, transfers are tricky.  They always have some kind of baggage and some do very well, and others don't amount to anything.

Amarri Jackson looks like a great athlete, that's no joke to set the long jump record in FL.

[Guest S.  Bien]

Bien, it's not that complicated, I simply offered my opinion on a football discussion message board, and was curious to see what other UCF fans and USF fans had to say.

You said it, the knights are superior.  My next guess is when we start talking RB's is Wilcox is the second coming of Hershel Walker, and Andre Hall's just a little guy that can't break the big one.

But, If you want my honest opinion, and obviously everything is subject to change as players and teams develop, but UCF's WR crew is inconsistent past Walker.  Marshall for all his height has never distinguished himself as a go-to WR, and even some knights have questioned his reliability receiving.   After that everyone is simply inconsistent, or lacking experience to make a definitive determination on their potential.  UCF's got nice size, lacks some serious speed, but the size can nuetralize that aspect somewhat.  

Flipping to USF, we're young at WR, with good size, and good speed.  The consistency is a question mark for every receiver since everyone, except Green and Chambers, has exhibited some tendency to drop an occasional ball, or run inconsistent routes.  

Taking the facts into account it sounds like this part of the evaluation is simply a push.  Maybe an ever so slight advantage to UCF based solely on experience.

If you want to base it on potential and talent then here's my assessment.

Comparing USF v. UCF at WR based on potential then that starts and stops with the two studs on both teams- Peyton v. Walker.  Both are skilled, and very highly sought after coming out of HS.  Their skill sets are a little different, Walker's a sure handed solid WR that catches most everything that comes his way, Peyton's a rangy deep threat that has deceptive speed, and amazing size- great combination athletically but has a tendency at this juncture to be lackadaisical in his approach and drop a ball or two.  Two different WR's but both with similar potential and very talented.

After that I would give USF a slight advantage on overall potential, and speed.  Partly because Chambers has proven to be that good, and guys like Halliburton, Garris, Edwards, and Green are highly skilled.  Garris' 4.3 speed is the lightning, but Chambers is 4.4.  

When you take into account in-coming freshmen then the USF advantage solely on potential is slightly more profound.

As for TE, well the clear edge goes to UCF based on athleticism, and experience.  Your TE's are very athletic, rangy kids that can play.  USF's TEs include jumbo athletes, some who walked on like Ruegger, Bleakley, and Derek Carter.  Cedric Hill could fall in this category as he's bloomed into a 6-3 225lbs kid that reminds some of a Winslow type.  However, UCF gets the edge in both potential and experience.  Part of USF's in ability here is that we don't use the TE that much, and when we do it's usually solely as a blocker, and we usually bring in another tackle, or one of the big jumbo athletes.

There you have it.  I don't think anyone can, or should say that either of "Our WRing crews can hang w/ just about any program."  That's a false statement, and completely biased, and borderline dilusional.  There's not that type of talent on either squad with maybe a couple of exceptions (as mentioned above).  Each team possesses a few special players at these given positions.  At this juncture I'd only say that Walker and Peyton could play anywhere in the country with Chambers getting an honorable mention in that category.  Outside of those guys neither team or receiving core has proven to be egregiously better than each other, and based on one's biasedness I could see it bent either way.  

In terms of TE it's heavily weighted to UCF, but that's partly because USF hasn't recruited or used many TE's in the recent past.

[MavTechKNIGHT2]

Disagree about Marshall.  He has proven to be a very good WR.  He spent all of last year on the defensive side of the ball.

And until you guys find a QB (maybe this year) your WR can be the best in the country.  Their productivity will suffer because of the QB play.

Moffett has his problems be he is far and away better than Julmiste.

[CyberBull]

Another instance of UCFer opinion not matching reality. Below are the key passing and rushing stats for each QB. Show me how Moffet is "far and away better than Julmiste."

If anything Julmiste is the better runner and has a better nose for the endzone.

NAME                        CMP   ATT   YDS   CMP%   YDS/A    TD   INT   RAT

Steven Moffett       147     229   1721   64.2      7.52       9    10    131.6

Pat Julmiste           118     247   1570   47.8      6.36       7      8    104.0

---

NAME                        CAR     YDS     YPC     LONG        TD

Steven Moffett         107       6       0.1        31(TD)   2

Pat Julmiste               96     193     2.0        23          9

[DawgPound]

There is NO way that those QB ratings are correct.

[KeysBull]

College qb ratings are completely different from pro.  for example, Danny Wuerffel had a career qb rating of like 175.  Anything south of 150 is unexceptional in college, and less than 100 is just godawful

[CyberBull]

There is NO way that those QB ratings are correct.

So now I am making up stats?

Three different sites have the same QB rating.