Friday night starter.

[BrassBulls12]

1 minute ago, chapelbull said:

All I know is we have won 3 out of 4 series,

Thats very true. But we haven't won on Friday night in any of those series wins. Im not anti- SM, i'm really not. He has great stuff but his shortcomings have put us behind in series. Saturday might offer some protection that Friday does not. 

 

4 minutes ago, chapelbull said:

He's 2nd in the country in K's and 1st in K's/9 innings.  As I stated in another thread that's as much a factor in the length of his outings as his control.   And he's not 21 quite yet.

Ok, But in conference play he is only averaging seven strikeouts pregame, So his primary strength has been kinda pedestrian in games that matter.  Also, 45 of his strikeouts have come against Fordham, Central Michigan, Army, and Columbia, thats compared to the 28 against Uconn, Houston, ECU, and Tulane. 

This sport is driven by 21 year olds, he gets a pass if he's 18 but 21 is pretty mature in college sports. 

In the end it is Molh decision. I just think PS would give us a better chance at sweeping series and that he has really just flat out earned it. But, if it would upset the dynamic then it shouldn't be done. But that can be said for just about every debate that happens on this board. Coaches will always have more info than us.

Thanks for the discussion. 

[chapelbull]

You left off his dozen K's against North Carolina and the fact is he threw well enough to beat Tulane.   Sure the sport is "driven" by 21 year olds, but they're still not mature as ball players and some less than others.  Not sure why PS starting on Friday gives us more of a chance at sweeping a series.  SM still has to take the bump and get the job done whether it's Fr or Sat and series sweeps against quality opponents is tough.

[chapelbull]

As far as "earning it", that's relevant.  Rotation was set based on ability prior to the season and SM hasn't thrown nearly as bad as you make it seem besides this past Friday night. Reality is PS matches up with a #2 on Saturday and that may be the match up Mohl wants.  

[BrassBulls12]

9 minutes ago, chapelbull said:

Not sure why PS starting on Friday gives us more of a chance at sweeping a series. 

Because we are winning on Saturday and not Friday.  We are 1-3 in conference on Friday and had to over come 6 runs to get it. We are 3-1 on Saturday and lost 0-1 in the one loss. You cant sweep a series if you don't win on Friday, I would just like a chance. 

21 minutes ago, chapelbull said:

You left off his dozen K's against North Carolina and the fact is he threw well enough to beat Tulane. 

I didn't leave them out. I was making a point that most of his success has come against lesser talent and that he has struggled against good opponents (with the exception of UNC), which is still true. Also, he threw well enough to beat Tulane for 6 innings, look at what Pete against Houston when the offense failed. He battled right to the very end. 

 

11 minutes ago, chapelbull said:

SM hasn't thrown nearly as bad as you make it seem

What't good about 6 ER per game in conference play? Is our offense just supposed to over come that every Friday night? 

 

SM does have better stuff, but Pete is the better pitcher. The strikeout leader doesn't win the Cy Young every year. 

 

 

[chapelbull]

He threw well against Tulane and we didn't "overcome" 6 runs against Houston.  We gave up 4 runs in the 7th with a big lead and Cruz was part of the issue.  In fact, SM was lights out for 6.2 and lost it with 2 outs in the 7th.  Cruz was awful in relief.

Like I said, besides this past weekend (and 1 inning vs. UConn), he hasn't thrown nearly as bad as you want to make it sound.  

We're atop the Conference standings so it appears to be working.  SM takes on the stud and PS gets the opposing teams #2 while Sunday we piece it together and try to outscore our opponents.

[BrassBulls12]

Obviously we aren't going to see eye to eye on this. In the end its Mohl decision and he is going to make it based on the information he has, which is a lot more than what we have. I would just like to see PS in the Friday night spot to see what can happen.  At some point, if Shane is the ace, he has to find a way to go deep in to games or we wont make much of post season run. 

[BrassBulls12]

2 minutes ago, chapelbull said:

We gave up 4 runs in the 7th with a big lead

He let them back in the game, right. Hows that going to work in the post season?

 

4 minutes ago, chapelbull said:

  In fact, SM was lights out for 6.2 and lost it with 2 outs in the 7th.  Cruz was awful in relief.

Right, so find a way to go deeper into games so the pen doesn't lose it for you. That's what aces do anyway. 

 

6 minutes ago, chapelbull said:

Like I said, besides this past weekend (and 1 inning vs. UConn), he hasn't thrown nearly as bad as you want to make it sound.  

2 minutes ago, chapelbull said:

he hasn't thrown nearly as bad as you want to make it sound.  

That accounts for 50% of our conference series and I don't make it sound that way, the amount of ERs do. 

[chapelbull]

9 minutes ago, BrassBulls12 said:

He let them back in the game, right. Hows that going to work in the post season?

 

Right, so find a way to go deeper into games so the pen doesn't lose it for you. That's what aces do anyway. 

 

That accounts for 50% of our conference series and I don't make it sound that way, the amount of ERs do. 

Yes you kind of do.   10 of those ERs were in 1+ of an inning (and Mohl would have handled pitchers differently in the 7th inning of UH game if we didn't have an 8 run lead with 2 outs in the inning) while the other 15 innings prior to this past weekend he threw lights out.  You keep ignoring that.  He's not going to go deeper than 6-7 innings because he misses too many bats and struggles with control at times.  That's a by product of his filthy stuff and everybody paying attention especially Mohl knew that going in.  As long as we're winning series, then there really isn't a reason to mess with it unless Mohl really feels like SM will benefit from throwing on Saturday night.  There's no guarantee that PS will replicate results on Friday night against other teams #1.  Besides we've completed series with 3 of the next 4 best teams outside of us in the Conference already.

[CousinRicky]

I hate to jump into this as it seems to be between just the two of you.  But, that what the 'pen is for.  

If you move PS to Friday night and he pitches well, you may still lose that game because we aren't hitting opposing Friday night pitchers very well.  Then if SM gets lit up on Saturday then we may not be winning the series as we have been even though we seem to be scoring more runs on Saturday than Friday.

So I'm fine leaving the rotation as is.  

[BrassBulls12]

44 minutes ago, chapelbull said:

Yes you kind of do.   10 of those ERs were in 1+ of an inning

I don't care if its one inning or six right now in conference play, hes allowing 4.5 runs per game. He gave up 6 in two of the games and 5 in the other, and I just looking at ER, not Runs in total, some experts would say that pitchers need to feel responsible for all runs because its their job to get out of the inning. But in any case he has had at least one bad inning in each of those games. and that's 3 of the last four. 

 

38 minutes ago, Bourbon Bull said:

If you move PS to Friday night and he pitches well, you may still lose that game because we aren't hitting opposing Friday night pitchers very well. 

We may lose every game that our team isn't hitting well, i would rather have the pitcher on the mound that is better at keeping runs off the board in those games. 

 

1 hour ago, chapelbull said:

You keep ignoring that. 

Not ignoring it, just pointing out that the last four weeks have been against better teams the then previous four. i'm glad he did great against Columbia, Central Michigan, and Fordham but that doesn't do much for us. Even UNC came in the first game so you could make the argument that they were still knocking rust off  and that's his lone Quality start against a quality opponent. it's not ok that he pitched well except for one inning, that inning still counts, those runs dont count any less because it was his one bad inning for the game. 

We will need them both to be good, i'm just tired of needing to win every Saturday. Losing on Friday and taxing our pen to nine plus outs just gets old and isn't sustainable.